Salary Cap: Free Agency Doldrums - Part VII | Taters Signs Rehab Contract with Pens. e6

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Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Shero got Neal and Kunitz. Rutherford traded one of those. In spite of the owners' mandate to get more help for Sid and Geno, we have one less elite winger than we had to start the summer, and like the majority of non-Pens fans looking to rationalize the return I'm not convinced we're a better team after that trade.

On top of that, we had the cap space and fit for Kulemin here that would have given us size, grit, and established chemistry to assuage Malkin after the Neal trade. Rutherford opted for a defenseman instead. If he thinks he can do better via trade, great. If he can't, it's a problem.

I'm failing to see how Hornqvist has been any better. Or even as good.

Right now it's a judgement based purely on style rather than results.

Kulemin might have been an option... however from the sounds of things after the fact, he wanted to play with Grabo... which means that while we wanted him... he really might not have been an option.

And as much as we need wingers... getting Ehrhoff at 4m is a steal. It's also a move that easily gives us the depth to move Scuderi with little thought (or buy him out if we can't move him).

As for making the team better... on paper no we're not. But it is a different line up. We'll likely score less in the regular season. However, I'd rather have Hornqvist over Neal in the playoffs. I still don't think we got full value for Neal, but whatever... it is what it is at this point.
 

Sutter16

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Aug 17, 2012
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JR needs to bring in a top 6 winger for sure. But to me, he seems content on waiting it out to 1. Find the right fit and 2. Paying a reasonable price for that top 6 guy. He's said numerous times that we don't have to have our playoff roster built right now or in September. He's right. He'll get one at or before the trade deadline. Patience.
 

gdsmack267

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Sep 11, 2010
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Pens best strategy right now is to hang onto Martin because we have no clue how these young D men would turn out this year. If by December or January they feel the young d is progressing well then Martin becomes expendable. Until then they're better off holding onto him
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
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Bortuzzo is already on the roster and was more physical/"nasty" than Orpik has been in years.

I really couldn't disagree with this post any more. You don't need "toughness" to win in the playoffs, you need skill and competitive drive.

Well then you don't understand sports. Hockey is a physical sport yes or no?? You can't be weak in a physical sport and plan on winning a championship. You point to Bortuzzo, yes I like him very much. But the Pens need at least one more D like him and at least 3 forwards with his skill set as well.
 

Captain Hook

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Jul 12, 2007
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Kulemin might have been an option... however from the sounds of things after the fact, he wanted to play with Grabo... which means that while we wanted him... he really might not have been an option.

And as much as we need wingers... getting Ehrhoff at 4m is a steal. It's also a move that easily gives us the depth to move Scuderi with little thought (or buy him out if we can't move him).

As for making the team better... on paper no we're not. But it is a different line up. We'll likely score less in the regular season. However, I'd rather have Hornqvist over Neal in the playoffs. I still don't think we got full value for Neal, but whatever... it is what it is at this point.
That's the thing to me too. Ehroff is a steal at that price and term. Kulemin is an overpayment at the price and term he went for. I'd rather have Ehroff. We'll find another winger eventually. I'd be more concerned if Rutherford said he was happy with this roster and seemed content. JR doesn't seem content with this group. He just knows he can't fix it all in one off-season.
 

themethod7

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Pens best strategy right now is to hang onto Martin because we have no clue how these young D men would turn out this year. If by December or January they feel the young d is progressing well then Martin becomes expendable. Until then they're better off holding onto him

Debatable (read the last 30+ pages), but thanks for your input.
 

UnderratedBrooks44

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Sep 13, 2005
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Pens best strategy right now is to hang onto Martin because we have no clue how these young D men would turn out this year. If by December or January they feel the young d is progressing well then Martin becomes expendable. Until then they're better off holding onto him

Didn't you hear? Despres is definitely good even though we have no proof, and at least one if not two of these rookie D will be able to play at a high level for 82 games + the playoffs. Martin is completely expendable and while we want to trade him in exchange for a longer term player, another team will definitely make that deal.
 

WhatsaMaatta

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Feb 2, 2008
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I'm not sure Boston's in that pack any more. Chara's getting dangerously close to 40 and over the last 2 years they've turned Horton into Iginla into nothing and Seguin and Peverely into Eriksson's IR spot and Smith. I like Eriksson and Smith, but they're not Seguin, even when taken together and Peverely, when healthy, is woefully underrated.

New power in the East is probably Tampa, assuming they don't start getting the "this team's soft, beat their *****" treatment.

I agree they aren't the same team they were two years ago, but Boston has drafted really well. They still have a pretty stacked roster in spite of Chara's decline and having to trade Seguin. I don't think Pittsburgh is at their level or will be until they start using the players that they've drafted and start getting a pipeline of young forwards.
 

deakka

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Nov 6, 2009
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I completely disagree about holding on to Martin and then maybe move him at the deadline. We should aim to.be contender a, we should be buyers. Not shake the D-core and . move Martin. What message does that sens? Probably that they don't think the team can contend.

No, the time to move him is now.
 

WhatsaMaatta

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Feb 2, 2008
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Didn't you hear? Despres is definitely good even though we have no proof, and at least one if not two of these rookie D will be able to play at a high level for 82 games + the playoffs. Martin is completely expendable and while we want to trade him in exchange for a longer term player, another team will definitely make that deal.

You mean no proof other than the games he's played? I'm not on the trade Martin boat, so I won't argue that, but this notion that Despres hasn't earned a roster spot is ridiculous.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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Didn't you hear? Despres is definitely good even though we have no proof, and at least one if not two of these rookie D will be able to play at a high level for 82 games + the playoffs. Martin is completely expendable and while we want to trade him in exchange for a longer term player, another team will definitely make that deal.

Yea man, if we never let them play, we can keep making these ridiculous, passive-aggressive posts! Which would be great for you.

I swear, the Ray Shero Penguins, and the fans who subscribe to his ways of doing business, need ****ing pacifiers. OH NO, WE DON'T HAVE 12 VETERAN DEFENDERS ON THE ROSTER, THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY TO WIN THE CUP NOW, PS I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, SINCE THE LAST HANDFUL OF CUP WINNERS HAVE HAD AN AMAZING MIX OF VETS AND YOUNGER PLAYERS, BUT PLEASE LET ME PLAY TO THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN!
 

Captain Hook

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I think if you move Martin you have to do it sooner than later. I'm fine with keeping him for a run at the Cup or trading him depending on the return. I can't imagine they do it during the season though. His value is only going to decrease once the season starts since he only has one year left on his deal.
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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If you trade Martin, you do it now so that you can start finding out in October and November if the young guys can handle it or not. If not, then you can get a vet d-man at the deadline. If you wait to trade him at the deadline and find out in March/April that the young guys aren’t ready, you are screwed. Besides, the only teams that would value Martin enough to take him as the centerpiece of a trade at the deadline would be teams in the playoff mix and then they probably aren’t looking to trade top 6 forwards. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s unlikely. Definitely not likely enough to count on it.
 

Hottubber

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Feb 9, 2010
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I think if you move Martin you have to do it sooner than later. I'm fine with keeping him for a run at the Cup or trading him depending on the return. I can't imagine they do it during the season though. His value is only going to decrease once the season starts since he only has one year left on his deal.

Trading Martin now also allows the team that is getting him extra time to hopefully come to some kind of agreement on an extension.

Burns (although a lot younger than Martin) was in his last year before becoming a UFA and Minny shipped him to the Sharks for a good package. He resigned fairly soon after. I don't know if they were allowed to talk to him prior to the trade, or if the destination and dollar figures worked for him. Either way, a GM that thinks they can get the guy to resign, and has the balls to make the trade, will pay a good package for a top pairing d like Martin
 

cassius

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Jul 23, 2004
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Trade Martin now.. And get something for him .

Or get another year out of him.. And get nothing when he walks (ala Orpik/Niskanen.

Easy choice for me..
 

stepdad gaary

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Dec 5, 2011
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Trade Martin now.. And get something for him .

Or get another year out of him.. And get nothing when he walks (ala Orpik/Niskanen.

Easy choice for me..

except for you know, having a #1 pairing for a year and having a much better chance at competing for the stanley cup
 

Hottubber

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Feb 9, 2010
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Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?

Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?
 

CanadianPensFan1

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Jun 13, 2014
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Trade Martin now.. And get something for him .

Or get another year out of him.. And get nothing when he walks (ala Orpik/Niskanen.

Easy choice for me..

Its not quite that easy. What happens if Martin is traded and Maata comes back and hits a hard slump .. as has happened to many a 1st year stud .. who is also coming back from an injury?

Im not saying we shouldnt trade Martin. Im just saying its not quite a slam duck decision.


Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?

Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?

I think a lot of his unhappiness stemmed from DB. At least thats my impression.

Having said that, with respect to his quote about getting back to his playing level... Martin seems like a genuinely nice guy (from everything that I have read/seen). I believe he is the kind of guy who thinks "I signed this contract, I'll honor it. I'll leave at the end" .. as opposed to someone who signs a contract, doesnt like the situation and asks for a trade. That isnt a condemnation on players who do .. just saying thats the difference I see.
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
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Why do people keep saying that teams will not trade futures for short term players? Have you not watched Shero the last several years? :laugh:
 

Dipsy Doodle

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May 28, 2006
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Kulemin might have been an option... however from the sounds of things after the fact, he wanted to play with Grabo... which means that while we wanted him... he really might not have been an option.

That's more rationalization, Rip. Kulemin's agent never once said that they were a package deal, only that it was a priority. I'm sure playing with a friend was a priority, along with money, a quality team etc. We had all three, but balked at providing the most important.

If you honestly think Kulemin would have picked playing with one friend on the Islanders or another with the Penguins - all other things being equal - I don't know what to tell you.

And as much as we need wingers... getting Ehrhoff at 4m is a steal. It's also a move that easily gives us the depth to move Scuderi with little thought (or buy him out if we can't move him).

As for making the team better... on paper no we're not. But it is a different line up. We'll likely score less in the regular season. However, I'd rather have Hornqvist over Neal in the playoffs. I still don't think we got full value for Neal, but whatever... it is what it is at this point.

I think that if you told most Pens fans before the fact that the return for Neal would be Hornqvist and a Spaling, they'd have laughed in your face.

When Neal was with Malkin he scored a lot, regular season or playoffs (a few games at the start of the last playoffs notwithstanding). When he wasn't, he didn't. The regular season/playoffs narrative with Neal is off-base, and Hornqvist hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better when it counts. That's really just what we're all crossing our fingers and hoping for to justify the deal.

Ehrhoff was good value. Would he make us a better team than Kulemin would if the right scoring wing isn't acquired between now and October? I doubt it.
 

Hottubber

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Feb 9, 2010
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except for you know, having a #1 pairing for a year and having a much better chance at competing for the stanley cup

Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound

or

Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?

There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
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Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?

Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?

It's possible that he wants to finish his career close to home. He also probably wants a term that exceeds what we could offer.
 

CanadianPensFan1

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Jun 13, 2014
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Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound

or

Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?

There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO


Sure. In an ideal world, dumping Scuderi and his $3.4 mil and keeping Martin is a good scenario.

Almost $4mil is a pretty good amount of space to find a decent top 6 winger. The guy doesnt have to come in already being a stud. Look at what Sid and Geno have made their wingers into.

The guy coming in, imo, can be a decent guy who has scored 20g/50pts. Playing with Sid and Geno can turn that into 27-30g/64 - 67pts.

For me, its not solely about points. Sid and Geno can get the points. The wingers need to create time and space and havoc.
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
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Why do people keep saying that teams will not trade futures for short term players? Have you not watched Shero the last several years? :laugh:

Yes, teams that think they have a shot at the Cup would trade for short term players (Martin), but they aren't likely to trade away a top 6 winger (what the Penguins would be looking for).

Edit: ...at the deadline.
 
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