Free Agency and Trade Thread: Off-season alive and well ... for some!

[SprDaVE]

I do wonder why he's available, after only being on the Flames for a few years.. I mean this is a 25 yr old RHD who has great size as well as mobility and offense. A guy like him should be a long-term core piece for any team's D really...

I can't help but feel like there is something more with him behind the scenes. Even with Boston, he wouldn't sign with them and then they traded him and people laughed at the Bruins because they supposedly couldn't meet his contract demands cause of cap space issues, yet he ended up signing for more or less the same contract with Calgary, so it was clear he just wanted out from Boston for whatever reason. Then there were also some stories about how he was kind of an oddball off the ice / there may have been some locker room tension, and others who are familiar with him off the ice have also said he's kind of 'strange'. Now after only a few seasons Calgary is testing the market for him supposedly... just odd for a young player of his calibre and for such a premium position while being the ever elusive 'right shot'.

I have no idea why he's potentially on the market but their defensive depth might be the only reason his name is out there. His value might be enough to get them back the picks they don't have AND to add a good forward that they really need.

I don't think we'll be in the mix for him because we don't have "extra" top 60 picks to trade and I don't think the Leafs are looking at disrupting their forward depth at this time.

 

[ACC1224]

The price at minimum would include William Nylander.

PS. Nylander was born in Calgary and Flames are looking for offensive help up front.
& Dougie Hamilton was born in Toronto and Leafs are looking for a RHD.

Seems like a good match.

 

[Walshy7]

The price at minimum would include William Nylander.

PS. Nylander was born in Calgary and Flames are looking for offensive help up front.
& Dougie Hamilton was born in Toronto and Leafs are looking for a RHD.

from what some flames fans say, Hamilton is a soft offensive dman is that really worth giving nylander for? I don't think so. 6'6" doesn't automatically mean good at using his body etc. If he is just a tall version of gardiner im sorry but nylander doesnt move for that

 

[SprDaVE]

The price at minimum would include William Nylander.

PS. Nylander was born in Calgary and Flames are looking for offensive help up front.
& Dougie Hamilton was born in Toronto and Leafs are looking for a RHD.

Possibly. Or a package of picks and a young player like Kapanen.

 

[ULF_55]

from what some flames fans say, Hamilton is a soft offensive dman is that really worth giving nylander for? I don't think so. 6'6" doesn't automatically mean good at using his body etc. If he is just a tall version of gardiner im sorry but nylander doesnt move for that

They've been talking all week here about the draft, and one of the things they mentioned about shutdown defenders, is that the day of the physical shutdown defender is past.

Their new criteria for a shutdown defender is someone who skates well, and can get to the puck and move it before pressure starts to build.

So perhaps Hamilton isn't the prototypical mean physical d-man, but maybe that is not what the game is anymore?

What do Dubastats say about him?

 

[ULF_55]

Possibly. Or a package of picks and a young player like Kapanen.

Oilers want a defender.
Flames want a draft pick.
Oilers 10th. OA is in play.
Hamilton might be in play.

OTOH
Oilers want a winger who can skate with McDavid.
Leafs don't have anyone that can skate with McDavid do they?

 

[Mess]

from what some flames fans say, Hamilton is a soft offensive dman is that really worth giving nylander for? I don't think so. 6'6" doesn't automatically mean good at using his body etc. If he is just a tall version of gardiner im sorry but nylander doesnt move for that

Nylander scorer 20 goals as a forward playing alongside Matthews..

Dougie Hamilton scored 17 goals tying Norris trophy winner Hedman for #1 in the NHL among Dmen.

Dougie Hamilton + Sam Bennett for William Nylander and 25thOA on the draft floor tomorrow seems like a perfect fit for both teams..

Leafs get their top pairing RHD (only 25 years old) + 3rd line C to replace Bozak and Calgary gets top 6 forward help they seek as well as 1st round pick they want after dealing theirs away for Hamonic last year.

The fit couldn't be any better here .. Dubas make it happen ..

 

[Dreakmur]

They've been talking all week here about the draft, and one of the things they mentioned about shutdown defenders, is that the day of the physical shutdown defender is past.

Physicality isn't any less valuable than it used to be. Intimidation is still a very valuable weapon. Skating has just become far too essential to the position. The number of guys who combine every skill at an elite level are such a rarity that you basically have to select your weaknesses.

Their new criteria for a shutdown defender is someone who skates well, and can get to the puck and move it before pressure starts to build.

Skating, positioning, and play-reading are the big three skills for a defensive defenseman. Moving the puck is great, but you can pretty easily design a system to compensate for that.

So perhaps Hamilton isn't the prototypical mean physical d-man, but maybe that is not what the game is anymore?

It's not about killing guys. It's about winning battles. Hamilton is very weak for such a big man.

 

[Walshy7]

Nylander scorer 20 goals as a forward playing alongside Matthews..

Dougie Hamilton scored 17 goals tying Norris trophy winner Hedman for #1 in the NHL among Dmen.

Dougie Hamilton + Sam Bennett for William Nylander and 25thOA on the draft floor tomorrow seems like a perfect fit for both teams..

Dubas make it happen ..

eh I really don't rate Sam Bennett, And to be clear im not saying Hamilton for Nylander isn't a fair deal. But id prefer a better defending dman IF Hamilton is more of a offensive damn

 

[meefer]

@Silver91...would you kindly offer evidence to the following. "Even Kadri doesn't become expendable with a JT signing. The goal is to have as much talent as possible, and history has shown that moving forwards for "equivalent value" defenders never looks good on the team trading the forward. The most likely scenario for Nylander is that he continues to share the faceoff duties with his center, and slides in as an injury replacement when needed. Having him as a 4th top 6 center is a hell of a lot more comfortable than him being the 3rd line center, even if I think he would do fine in the position."

We can certainly look at NJ and Edmonton to prove your point, but are there other examples? I'm simply asking. I argue Nylander in the 3 hole offers more than adequate and that JT + a solid Dman is more than equivalent to a simple 'equivalent value' situation. I could be wrong, but evidence would help me better accept why.

 

[Mess]

eh I really don't rate Sam Bennett, And to be clear im not saying Hamilton for Nylander isn't a fair deal. But id prefer a better defending dman IF Hamilton is more of a offensive damn

Hamilton was 14th in Norris voting and the Leafs didn't have anyone in the votes so that is an upgrade.

Leafs don't have a Dmen that scores 17 goals and is a big right hand shot from the point particularly the PP.

Leaf Nation would scream bloody murder if Leafs traded Willie for a defensive Dman like Edmonton did in the Hall for Larsson deal.

 

[Silver91]

@Silver91...would you kindly offer evidence to the following. "Even Kadri doesn't become expendable with a JT signing. The goal is to have as much talent as possible, and history has shown that moving forwards for "equivalent value" defenders never looks good on the team trading the forward. The most likely scenario for Nylander is that he continues to share the faceoff duties with his center, and slides in as an injury replacement when needed. Having him as a 4th top 6 center is a hell of a lot more comfortable than him being the 3rd line center, even if I think he would do fine in the position."

We can certainly look at NJ and Edmonton to prove your point, but are there other examples? I'm simply asking. I argue Nylander in the 3 hole offers more than adequate and that JT + a solid Dman is more than equivalent to a simple 'equivalent value' situation. I could be wrong, but evidence would help me better accept why.

Considering the rarity of 1 for 1 trades in the NHL, especially when it comes to established players, there's not that many to go off of, but off the top of my head that one and the JVR for Schenn trade. Otherwise, there's a bunch of multi-piece trades where you could argue the value was there in other pieces.

Either way, there isn't really a defender available who I would trade 1v1 for Kadri or Nylander, and I wouldn't be adding pieces to one of them either, nor would I be taking a package for them, since that would be counterproductive.

 

[Morgs]

If Chia came calling and said "Kyle, I'm willing to trade 10th OA for a top-4 defenseman". Would you:

A) Trade Rielly (lol)
B) Trade Dermott
C) Trade Gardiner
D) Trade Zaitsev
E) Trade Liljegren

You can pick more than one (all 1 for 1 trades though), and this happens before Dahlin is picked so you don't know who is available.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Chia reportedly says he’s prepared to move the 10th OA pick for a quality d-man....

Cmon Dubas, get it done

 

[Liminality]

If Chia came calling and said "Kyle, I'm willing to trade 10th OA for a top-4 defenseman". Would you:

A) Trade Rielly (lol)
B) Trade Dermott
C) Trade Gardiner
D) Trade Zaitsev
E) Trade Liljegren

You can pick more than one (all 1 for 1 trades though), and this happens before Dahlin is picked so you don't know who is available.

I think it's enticing for Gardiner. I'd like for Edmonton to add but I don't see Gardiner with the Leafs in the future when he's an FA next year.

It would also be a huge vote of confidence to Dermott from Dubas.

 

[Walshy7]

If Chia came calling and said "Kyle, I'm willing to trade 10th OA for a top-4 defenseman". Would you:

A) Trade Rielly (lol)
B) Trade Dermott
C) Trade Gardiner
D) Trade Zaitsev
E) Trade Liljegren

You can pick more than one (all 1 for 1 trades though), and this happens before Dahlin is picked so you don't know who is available.

Gardiner and Zaitsev are the only 2 I think about. Gardiner may be a legit candidate that has been offered, Chirelli said he wants a dman that can score points and gardiner just hit 50 points. I would do it. Now im not sure once we do it whether we then don't trade that pick for a better dman than gardiner (chirelli is an idiot after all)

 

[kk87]

If Chia came calling and said "Kyle, I'm willing to trade 10th OA for a top-4 defenseman". Would you:

A) Trade Rielly (lol)
B) Trade Dermott
C) Trade Gardiner
D) Trade Zaitsev
E) Trade Liljegren

You can pick more than one (all 1 for 1 trades though), and this happens before Dahlin is picked so you don't know who is available.

Gardiner or Zaitsev I'd do in a heartbeat; other three I wouldn't consider

 

[Liminality]

Gardiner and Zaitsev are the only 2 I think about. Gardiner may be a legit candidate that has been offered, Chirelli said he wants a dman that can score points and gardiner just hit 50 points. I would do it. Now im not sure once we do it whether we then don't trade that pick for a better dman than gardiner (chirelli is an idiot after all)

10th + 25th + Brown for E.Karlsson?

 

[Morgs]

I'm personally with Liminality. I believe Gardiner's value (even on a one-year deal) exceeds the 10th OA pick, so I'd want an add on top of it. Thing is though if we're not planning on re-signing him, and Chia won't add: (lol) adios Gards.

Zaitsev for me a is a no-brainer. I would add if that's what necessary to get it done.

 

[Walshy7]

10th + 25th + Brown for E.Karlsson?

haha yeah something like that.

Do you think they would do Gardiner for RNH?

$6M is expensive for a 3rd line center when you have a $12M contract kicking in this year. RNH would of course then would be our 3r line center, which kind of contradicts my earlier statement. But they also havea a $9M center which we wouldn't have behind Matthews.

we probably add something? I don't know im no good at these trade ideas but RNH would be a good option for our c depth

 

[SprDaVE]

I'd be very interested in trading Zaitsev for Edmonton's first rounder. Im not overly high on Zaitsev like some around here though.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd be very interested in trading Zaitsev for Edmonton's first rounder. Im not overly high on Zaitsev like some around here though.

So what with Zaitsev would you include for the 10th?

Seems like Puljujarvi to the 'Canes could return a decent defender.

Wonder how much Aho and Puljujarvi played together?

 

[Muston Atthews]

I'd be very interested in trading Zaitsev for Edmonton's first rounder. Im not overly high on Zaitsev like some around here though.

And replace him with who exactly

 

[Buds17]

If Chia came calling and said "Kyle, I'm willing to trade 10th OA for a top-4 defenseman". Would you:

A) Trade Rielly (lol)
B) Trade Dermott
C) Trade Gardiner
D) Trade Zaitsev
E) Trade Liljegren

You can pick more than one (all 1 for 1 trades though), and this happens before Dahlin is picked so you don't know who is available.

C) Gardiner. Don't think he'll be re-signed. Not sure Edmonton entertains that without a contract extension though. I'd then want to have another trade lined up to acquire a d-man.

 

[ShaneFalco]