Frank Corrado

[opendoor]

Corrado has the tools to be a reliable defender in time, but it's not like he was very good when in the lineup this season. He was sheltered and still posted a -7 in 10 games.

As bad as Sbisa was, he was only a -8 in 76 games, playing tougher competition. I think Corrado will eventually be better than Sbisa, but that wasn't necessarily going to be this season.

Will be interesting to see how he fares early next year, because his development has been all over the map.

Most of that -7 was in the few minutes he was stuck playing with Sbisa. His most common partner was Hamhuis and in those minutes he had a 66.7% GF%.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Most of that -7 was in the few minutes he was stuck playing with Sbisa. His most common partner was Hamhuis and in those minutes he had a 66.7% GF%.

So Sbisa was basically an even player over 70+ games away from Frank Corrado?

 

[Proto]

So Sbisa was basically an even player over 70+ games away from Frank Corrado?

You've moved on to +/- now?

I'll admit I laughed at this one. You should run for public office .

 

[Drop the Sopel]

You've moved on to +/- now?

I'll admit I laughed at this one. You should run for public office .

Would you prefer I call it GF%?

 

[opendoor]

So Sbisa was basically an even player over 70+ games away from Frank Corrado?

Thanks to the Canucks breaking the modern record for EN GF. He was a -16 if you take out EN GF and GA.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Thanks to the Canucks breaking the modern record for EN GF. He was a -16 if you take out EN GF and GA.

Was he much better away from Corrado?

Did Corrado have much better advanced stats than Sbisa? Were Corrado's advanced stats good?

 

[opendoor]

Was he much better away from Corrado?

Kind of, I guess but he was still brutal. If you take out EN goals he was a -12 without Corrado despite riding an on-ice shooting percentage that was higher than the Sedins.

Of the 128 defensemen to play 1000+ minutes Sbisa was #127 in GA/60, ahead of only Klefbom.

Did Corrado have much better advanced stats than Sbisa? Were Corrado's advanced stats good?

Yes and sort of. His Corsi % was roughly the same as the team as a whole.

 

[Proto]

Would you prefer I call it GF%?

GF% or +/- is basically only useful when used in conjunction with possession numbers -- to see if a player consistently over-performs or under-performs expected results. In Sbisa's case, his GF% has been worse than his below-average CF% in basically every year of his career. Elite players often over-perform their possession #'s.

Other than that, I don't think you'd see anyone seriously use it. It's not like the two Alexanders (Edler and Ovechkin) learned to play defense over the course of last summer and traded in their green jackets.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Kind of, I guess but he was still brutal. If you take out EN goals he was a -12 without Corrado despite riding an on-ice shooting percentage that was higher than the Sedins.




Yes and sort of. His Corsi % was roughly the same as the team as a whole.

Sbisa was only -8 this season, was ventilated next to Corrado and somehow -12 without Corrado, excluding empty net goals? How is that possible?

Didn't Corrado have some of the worst 'Corsi relative' numbers on the team? Worse than Sbisa?

 

[Drop the Sopel]

GF% or +/- is basically only useful when used in conjunction with possession numbers -- to see if a player consistently over-performs or under-performs expected results.

Okay, so what numbers are you looking at that points to Frank Corrado being good this season?

Isn't 'Corsi relative' the best shot based metric to look at?

 

[opendoor]

Sbisa was only -8 this season, was ventilated next to Corrado and somehow -12 without Corrado, excluding empty net goals? How is that possible?

Didn't Corrado have some of the worst 'Corsi relative' numbers on the team? Worse than Sbisa?

Sbisa was only a -8 because he was on for a bunch of EN goals for and none against. At non-EN even strength he was a -17.

Corrado had a 49.8% Corsi rating in his 10 games. His relative rating wasn't great because the Canucks had some good possession games in those 10, but as with any numbers (good or bad) sample size is an issue when you're looking at only 144 minutes.

 

[Proto]

Okay, so what numbers are you looking at that points to Frank Corrado being good this season?

Isn't 'Corsi relative' the best shot based metric to look at?

Over a small sample like that? I'd probably go raw CF% with a heavy dose of "how did he look on the ice" and "how did he perform previously". He wasn't really on the ice enough to do much with the data.

I wouldn't have minded seeing them try Corrado on the left side with Bieksa on the right. There are so few left-side defensemen in the system that looking for a few Sbisa alternatives before committing dollars to him would have been my preference.

 

[MS]

I was a huge Corrado fan coming out of junior but his last two seasons and his performances at the NHL level have been a disappointment. I didn't like his play this year at all.

Hopefully he comes to camp next year and excels. Sounds like he's had a good finish to the AHL season and is turning in his best performances at that level, which is a good sign.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Sbisa was only a -8 because he was on for a bunch of EN goals for and none against.

But how was he -8 on the season, torched for goals against with Corrado and -12 without him? That doesn't sound mathematically possible...

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Over a small sample like that? I'd probably go raw CF% with a heavy dose of "how did he look on the ice" and "how did he perform previously". He wasn't really on the ice enough to do much with the data.

Did he pass your eye test, and look better than Sbisa?

I didn't like Corrado's game at all this year. Was one of the bigger disappointments for me with the young players, along with Stanton.

The tools are there. Now it's time to put them together and take a major step forward next season.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Seems like the narrative is...if Sbisa is paired up with you - your numbers go to ****.

 

[Proto]

Did he pass your eye test, and look better than Sbisa?

I didn't like Corrado's game at all this year. Was one of the bigger disappointments for me with the young players, along with Stanton.

The tools are there. Now it's time to put them together and take a major step forward next season.

I think he's been pretty uninspiring with a few bouts of decent play. Ho-hum. But I still would have run him out there a bit to see if he could at least function as a third-pairing defenseman and save the team 2-3 million in cap savings in each of the next couple seasons. He's probably capable of being a league average third-pairing defenseman -- bonus would be Willie might play him as one, rather than as a Top 4, as he treats his bottom two guys right now.

 

[ugghhh]

But how was he -8 on the season, torched for goals against with Corrado and -12 without him? That doesn't sound mathematically possible...

The -12 number (not sure if that's the right number) is Sbisa without Corrado and not including empty net GF/GA.

Sbisa was a -16 on the year if you don't include empty net GF/GA (brought up earlier by opendoor)

 

[tyhee]

Sbisa was only -8 this season, was ventilated next to Corrado and somehow -12 without Corrado, excluding empty net goals? How is that possible?

Didn't Corrado have some of the worst 'Corsi relative' numbers on the team? Worse than Sbisa?

According to http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...amid=29&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC at 5 on 5, CF%RelTM, Corrado was 6th among all Canuck defencemen with + 0.2. Sbisa was 8th (ahead of Stanton and Biega) at -3.1.

While there is a fair difference between +0.2 and -3.1, it must be noted that Corrado's sample size was small-only 144:37 TOI at 5 on 5, not large enough imo to have much confidence in the results.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Seems like the narrative is...if Sbisa is paired up with you - your numbers go to ****.

Yeah, looks like a wee bit of a trend there.

And there's no way Corrado could be worse than what we saw on the backend this year. Just none. Give the kid a shot, what the hell.

 

[Verviticus]

weirdly enough, in their tiny sample, corrado-sbisa actually had the best possession numbers of any d pairing, lol

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I was a huge Corrado fan coming out of junior but his last two seasons and his performances at the NHL level have been a disappointment. I didn't like his play this year at all.

Hopefully he comes to camp next year and excels. Sounds like he's had a good finish to the AHL season and is turning in his best performances at that level, which is a good sign.

I wonder if his performance this last year was negatively affected by WD calling him up and sitting him out for like 12 games in a row. While the rest of the league was playing themselves into game shape, he was sitting getting no playing time anywhere. Can't be easy for a young guy still learning the NHL to jump in cold and expected to play up to his potential. Could be a reason or just an excuse, I don't know.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

I wonder if his performance this last year was negatively affected by WD calling him up and sitting him out for like 12 games in a row. While the rest of the league was playing themselves into game shape, he was sitting getting no playing time anywhere. Can't be easy for a young guy still learning the NHL to jump in cold and expected to play up to his potential. Could be a reason or just an excuse, I don't know.

They still practice, its not like a player in the press box never touches the ice. Its a weak excuse.

 

[Verviticus]

i was a bit down on him but i honestly think he just had a few poor games. players do that. its just variance. still optimistic about him as a prospect and player

 

[sandwichbird2023]

They still practice, its not like a player in the press box never touches the ice. Its a weak excuse.

practices doesn't equal game, the speed and intensity are not the same. imo it is harder for a young player trying to learn the league to come in after not playing for 3 weeks, while the rest of the league are playing meaningful games.