Post-Game Talk: Fourteen. Pens/Jets Plus-Minus Thread

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Unfortunately, you are most likely right here. But, somehow, I refuse to believe that Bylsma can't see what we see. Bennett wouldn't only make L3 better, but his presence would have an effect on L2 and L4, primarly, also. L4 would get better players and L2 would have EASIER match ups with Bennett in there because L3 won't be a checking line but a third scoring line. Just like Cooke - Staal - Kennedy was. They would be able to control the puck against the opposition best line, while Sid would face their best checkers, leaving Geno a feast against the other team L2.

I really want to be wrong, but do we think DB will take out a vet like Cooke or TK for BB?

It is painfully obvious Vitale is better than Glass and he still won't sit him. Glass didn't even win a cup for him. Cooke and TK have to play at a level below Glass to be demoted for BB. Think about it... They would literally have to go out and be less than worthless shift after shift for like a dozen games...

It sucks and I don't like saying it, but whatever.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we don't need the cap or roster spot, I see no reason to get rid of TK or anyone else early. We have insane depth available for the playoffs.

The only thing is when players are sat who are used to playing all the time, it could be disruptive. Disco's solution for that is always to sit rookies, but at some point that will become disruptive too when everybody in the world sees Despres and Bennett as NHL-ready and better than some of the guys we dress.

I'm curious to see what unfolds here.

 

[mpp9]

I'd definitely be a bit worried about our third line's speed if Sutter is flanked by both Morrow and Cooke.

But IMO, the most logical top six is Duper/Sid/Iggy and Kunitz/Malkin/Neal. Those are our best forwards. Play them together.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I really want to be wrong, but do we think DB will take out a vet like Cooke or TK for BB?

It is painfully obvious Vitale is better than Glass and he still won't sit him. Glass didn't even win a cup for him. Cooke and TK have to play at a level below Glass to be demoted for BB. Think about it... They would literally have to go out and be less than worthless shift after shift for like a dozen games...

It sucks and I don't like saying it, but whatever.

Come playoff time I really have no quams with Cooke and TK being in the lineup over Bennett. Bennett is a great young player, but we've seen time and time again how huge Cooke and TK can be for us in the post-season. They are the type of players that simply know how to step it up during the playoffs, and personally I don't see it really having it a negative impact on us if they're on our bottom 6.

The only guy I really care to see scratched right now is Glass. Once again there is no reason whatsoever as to why this clown would still be in the lineup.

 

[Shady Machine]

Dupuis is a guy that produces wherever he is in the lineup.

Put him on the third line and I guarantee he'll still put up points. He's not a player that directly benefits from Sid like Kunitz does or Neal does with Malkin.

He works hard and honestly there aren't many better top 6 wingers in the game at this point.

I used to agree with that and still do for the most part, but Duper has stepped up his abilities. He is now finding soft spots and burying chances he gets from playing with Sid. That one time finish last night was sick. The puck was just landing as he shot it and there wasn't a whole lot of room there. I still want Iggy on the 1st line and Duper on the 3rd, but I have to tip my hat to Duper.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I used to agree with that and still do for the most part, but Duper has stepped up his abilities. He is now finding soft spots and burying chances he gets from playing with Sid. That one time finish last night was sick. The puck was just landing as he shot it and there wasn't a whole lot of room there. I still want Iggy on the 1st line and Duper on the 3rd, but I have to tip my hat to Duper.

I think DB likes the role that Dupuis fills on Sid's wing. He sees him as being the kind of guy that will win the races for the loose pucks and pick up a large portion of the defensive responsibilities from the more skilled guys, whether it be Sid, Iggy, or Kuni. If there's any reason as to why he'd keep him on the first line, it's mainly because of that reason.

THis could potentially lead to us seeing the line of Kuni-Malkin-Neal reunited once more. Any why not??? These guys absolutely tore up together last season! We know for a fact that they'd work well together once again.

Of course, this would push MOrrow down to L3, and of course there's skepticism concerning the lack of "speed" on this line if that were the case. However, the line of Cooke-Staal-TK was hardly blazing fast either. I think Morrow still has enough in the tank to keep up with Sutter and TK as well.

 

[IcedCapp]

All this "the Islanders will end the streak" "they always play the Pens tough" nonsense really annoys me. Looking forward to another blow-out shutout Saturday. Just wait until we get a powerplay.

Islanders are going to win, 10-0. Unstoppable force against a non-moving object. We're toast. Raise the white flag. Too good. Hats off. Tip of the cap. Take a bow.

 

[IcedCapp]

Reading through this thread, I like a lot of the thoughts people have, lineup wise. For the playoffs, I hope we see this:

Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Bennett - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Crosby/Malkin/Sutter - Adams

Reasoning: i believe Vitale's FO ability would be vital(e) in the playoffs, but I don't believe he'd be used properly. This lineup gives us the most balanced, dangerous lineup, 1-4, possible. Bennett and Morrow would switch. The key to maximizing the effectiveness of Morrow and the 2nd line will be efficient minutes. It's clear to me that he can keep up to Geno in spurts, but longer shifts drain him. Bennett has shown he can bring skill and physicality and defense to any line. So he won't be out of place taking turns on the 2nd and 3rd lines with Morrow.

Dupuis will be the scorer on the 3rd line. I said it last night, I've seen others say it, I believe it's true: Dupuis has reached a point where he's going to score what he's going to score, regardless of who his center is. With him on it, the 1st line is playing more of a "3rd-line game", he'll be more than fine with Sutter.

Despres/Eaton - Letang
Orpik - Martin
Murray - Niskanen

Obviously if you're going 11 F, you're going 7D. It's clear that the coaching staff doesn't trust Despres fully, and he has had some brain farts lately. This allows them to maximize his efficiency (playing him 10 sheltered minutes) while also keep Eaton as fresh as possible. Also possible to move Despres up and down the lineup, keeping Orpik, Murray, and Eaton a little more fresh through a long playoff run.

Fleury
Vokoun

Uh-huh.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Come playoff time I really have no quams with Cooke and TK being in the lineup over Bennett. Bennett is a great young player, but we've seen time and time again how huge Cooke and TK can be for us in the post-season. They are the type of players that simply know how to step it up during the playoffs, and personally I don't see it really having it a negative impact on us if they're on our bottom 6.

The only guy I really care to see scratched right now is Glass. Once again there is no reason whatsoever as to why this clown would still be in the lineup.

I am fine with BB not playing. I'm not fine with Despres sitting though. He is pivotal as hell for their transition game. I just think DB may play Eaton because he 'thinks' he makes less mistakes (in his mind).

But guess who gave Tangradi the breakaway when he shot the puck into his shin pads? Wrap the puck down the boards when you are winning by four goals...

Eaton makes mistakes to...

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Reading through this thread, I like a lot of the thoughts people have, lineup wise. For the playoffs, I hope we see this:

Kunitz - Crosby - Iginla
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Bennett - Sutter - Dupuis
Cooke - Crosby/Malkin/Sutter - Adams

Reasoning: i believe Vitale's FO ability would be vital(e) in the playoffs, but I don't believe he'd be used properly. This lineup gives us the most balanced, dangerous lineup, 1-4, possible. Bennett and Morrow would switch. The key to maximizing the effectiveness of Morrow and the 2nd line will be efficient minutes. It's clear to me that he can keep up to Geno in spurts, but longer shifts drain him. Bennett has shown he can bring skill and physicality and defense to any line. So he won't be out of place taking turns on the 2nd and 3rd lines with Morrow.

Dupuis will be the scorer on the 3rd line. I said it last night, I've seen others say it, I believe it's true: Dupuis has reached a point where he's going to score what he's going to score, regardless of who his center is. With him on it, the 1st line is playing more of a "3rd-line game", he'll be more than fine with Sutter.

Despres/Eaton - Letang
Orpik - Martin
Murray - Niskanen

Obviously if you're going 11 F, you're going 7D. It's clear that the coaching staff doesn't trust Despres fully, and he has had some brain farts lately. This allows them to maximize his efficiency (playing him 10 sheltered minutes) while also keep Eaton as fresh as possible. Also possible to move Despres up and down the lineup, keeping Orpik, Murray, and Eaton a little more fresh through a long playoff run.

Fleury
Vokoun

Uh-huh.

I'm not too keen on the idea of rolling only 3 centermen throughout what will be a grueling (and hopefully LONG) post-season run. Especially not with Malkin having to battle through some injury problems this season. Also I see Vitale being the kind of sparkplug that would THRIVE in playoff hockey.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I am fine with BB not playing. I'm not fine with Despres sitting though. He is pivotal as hell for their transition game. I just think DB may play Eaton because he 'thinks' he makes less mistakes (in his mind).

But guess who gave Tangradi the breakaway when he shot the puck into his shin pads? Wrap the puck down the boards when you are winning by four goals...

Eaton makes mistakes to...

Frankly if Murray is playing then I see no need to have Eaton in the lineup.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm not too keen on the idea of rolling only 3 centermen throughout what will be a grueling (and hopefully LONG) post-season run. Especially not with Malkin having to battle through some injury problems this season. Also I see Vitale being the kind of sparkplug that would THRIVE in playoff hockey.

Yeah. Everyone on this board sees that. The people who make the lineup decisions don't seem to agree.


As far as rolling 3C, they've done it before. Adams can take turns at 4C and double shifting one of the top-9 wingers when the 3C need a breather. This is basically the setup they used in 2009.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Yeah. Everyone on this board sees that. The people who make the lineup decisions don't seem to agree.


As far as rolling 3C, they've done it before. Adams can take turns at 4C and double shifting one of the top-9 wingers when the 3C need a breather. This is basically the setup they used in 2009.

I don't see there being a "need" per say like there was in 09 though. The team looks deeper up front than it did then.

 

[nTsplnk*]

I used to agree with that and still do for the most part, but Duper has stepped up his abilities. He is now finding soft spots and burying chances he gets from playing with Sid. That one time finish last night was sick. The puck was just landing as he shot it and there wasn't a whole lot of room there. I still want Iggy on the 1st line and Duper on the 3rd, but I have to tip my hat to Duper.

Duper definitely learned a lot about the game.

Contrary to popular belief, players can improve. Players can get better. Dupuis learned so much playing with Sid there's no doubt he's an improved player.

 

[od71]

Dupuis is a guy that produces wherever he is in the lineup.

Put him on the third line and I guarantee he'll still put up points. He's not a player that directly benefits from Sid like Kunitz does or Neal does with Malkin.

He works hard and honestly there aren't many better top 6 wingers in the game at this point.

Why on the 3rd? If not Kuni then put Duper on the second with Geno-Neal. And Morrow on the 3rd. Duper is faster, he finds open area, not bad along the boards. That's what 2nd line needs. From what I've seen Morrow is good in front of the net, but that's not enough. He is slow, and it will force Geno not to play deep in O zone, it will decrease overall production.
Having Iggy with Neal on the same line is not a good idea.
Kunitz/Duper - Crosby - Iginla
Duper/Kunitz - Malkin-Neal makes more sense

 

[nTsplnk*]

Why on the 3rd? If not Kuni then put Duper on the second with Geno-Neal. And Morrow on the 3rd. Duper is faster, he finds open area, not bad along the boards. That's what 2nd line needs. From what I've seen Morrow is good in front of the net, but that's not enough. He is slow, and it will force Geno not to play deep in O zone and that will decrease overall production.
Having Iggy with Neal on the same line is not a good idea.
Kunitz/Duper - Crosby - Iginla
Duper/Kunitz - Malkin-Neal makes more sense

Exactly. Duper is faster. The third line is the checking line and slow players will make it worse defensively.

 

[Fordy]

Why on the 3rd? If not Kuni then put Duper on the second with Geno-Neal. And Morrow on the 3rd. Duper is faster, he finds open area, not bad along the boards. That's what 2nd line needs. From what I've seen Morrow is good in front of the net, but that's not enough. He is slow, and it will force Geno not to play deep in O zone and that will decrease overall production.
Having Iggy with Neal on the same line is not a good idea.
Kunitz/Duper - Crosby - Iginla
Duper/Kunitz - Malkin-Neal makes more sense

This is lunacy and forces me to ask not only if you've seen the previous Malkin/Dupuis attempts, but even if you watched last nights game. Morrow worked flawlessly last night, found Malkin all over the ice, and directly created their goal. We've seen Dupuis and Malkin fail enough times. We won a cup with him on the third line. I cannot fathom the hesitance to put a guy back where he helped us win it all.

 

[Dying Alive]

Islanders are going to win, 10-0. Unstoppable force against a non-moving object. We're toast. Raise the white flag. Too good. Hats off. Tip of the cap. Take a bow.

I'm going for the reverse jinx. I've thought they were due for a loss for the last 9 games, no way I'm going to stop thinking that now.

I would like to see at least one game with Iginla on the 1st line and Dupuis on the 3rd. Dupuis has earned his spot with Sid but I'm hoping DB does a lot of mixing and matching over this last part of the season to see who fits best where. In the end I don't care who ends up on which line as long as it's the best possible combo.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The defense should be

Letang
Martin
Niskanen
Murray
Orpik
Despres

I don't care what the pairs are. But those are the best 6 d-men on the team.

 

[nTsplnk*]

Also, Dupuis has no history of success with Malkin. He's either on Sid's line or Sutter's.

 

[od71]

Exactly. Duper is faster. The third line is the checking line and slow players will make it worse defensively.

Right. But it's better to have two scoring lines. Besides, it's better to load more defensive work on Sutter than on Malkin. So, no choice.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

I really want to be wrong, but do we think DB will take out a vet like Cooke or TK for BB?

It is painfully obvious Vitale is better than Glass and he still won't sit him. Glass didn't even win a cup for him. Cooke and TK have to play at a level below Glass to be demoted for BB. Think about it... They would literally have to go out and be less than worthless shift after shift for like a dozen games...

It sucks and I don't like saying it, but whatever.

The only thing keeping Glass in the lineup is that he is on the PK.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Does anyone else get a comforting feeling that we are arguing over which of Kunitz, Dupuis, Neal, Iggy, Morrow has to play on line 3?

 

[od71]

This is lunacy and forces me to ask not only if you've seen the previous Malkin/Dupuis attempts, but even if you watched last nights game. Morrow worked flawlessly last night, found Malkin all over the ice, and directly created their goal. We've seen Dupuis and Malkin fail enough times. We won a cup with him on the third line. I cannot fathom the hesitance to put a guy back where he helped us win it all.

Exactly, he did his best, no grudge against him but it's not enough.
How did he create goal? He was just hanging around the net, draw attention of dmen, but it doesn't require too much effort.

 

[Tender Rip]

I really want to be wrong, but do we think DB will take out a vet like Cooke or TK for BB?

It is painfully obvious Vitale is better than Glass and he still won't sit him. Glass didn't even win a cup for him. Cooke and TK have to play at a level below Glass to be demoted for BB. Think about it... They would literally have to go out and be less than worthless shift after shift for like a dozen games...

It sucks and I don't like saying it, but whatever.

I have to say I share all your concerns, but we won't really know before post-deadline, when the roster limits are off. Which is soon enough. Right now it would be a waste having to waive anyone and therefore Bennett and Despres have to go down as it fits the numbers.

But surely, Despres, BB and Vitale are all part of our best possible game day roster.