Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Philippe Myers, D to ELC (9/21/15)

[ELab2]

Where the hell are you expecting all these a Dmen to play?

You are saying that in 1-2 years, Friedman, Myers, Hogberg, Bernhardt will be NHL ready.

With Provy, Ghost, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Gudas at the NHL level....they likely say it will be a longer timeline for most of them.

Reality is, we can AFFORD to leave guys in the AHL longer than usual due to the depth in front of them. And we can move out the #5-7 guys if we wish, and move guys up.

And chances are they wont all work out. The likelihood that every player you named because an actual NHL defenseman is effectively zero.

 

[Curufinwe]

Enough with if Player X doesn't do Y and Z next year he's a nothing prospect.

There are guys that have played at much higher levels of hockey before turning pro than Friedman, who have had to play more than one full season in the AHL. Hell look at Hagg.

Friedman is probably going to be buried on the AHL depth chart to start the year. He'll have to work his way up. Wouldn't shock me if he uses up most of his waiver eligibility in LHV and it probably won't have much to do with how he plays. Cracking the Flyers blueline won't be easy moving forward.

You would think after Hagg and Laughton's uneven development that people would be less gung ho about imposing arbitrary timelines on prospects.

Hell, Weal was waived at age 24 but is now probably a key part of the Flyers top 9 at age 25.

 

[ELab2]

You would think after Hagg and Laughton's uneven development that people would be less gung ho about imposing arbitrary timelines on prospects.

Hell, Weal was waived at age 24 but is now probably a key part of the Flyers top 9 at age 25.

We're regularly seeing defenseman getting their foothold in the NHL in their mid-20s. The timelines people are imposing would represent a huge shift from the norm

 

[deadhead]

There's no problem if they're not ready. Laughton didn't play well and didn't complain about getting sent down b/c he knew his play wasn't up to NHL standards. Weal got a shot, did nothing, and went back to the AHL and raised his game a notch.

The problem comes if a young player is ready and you bury him for an extra year or two - this is why players have agents - because you're hurting his career and his earning power. If the player can't crack your lineup, but is clearly NHL ready, it's better to trade him than create bad blood.

Up to now that hasn't been a problem, if a player was clearly ready, there were slots on the NHL roster. In fact, many here wanted to promote players last year b/c they were so unhappy with some on the NHL roster. In the future this may become an issue - but I'm sure Hextall will anticipate these situations and do what's best for the team and the player.

 

[deadhead]

We're regularly seeing defenseman getting their foothold in the NHL in their mid-20s. The timelines people are imposing would represent a huge shift from the norm

Actually, those players are outliers, if you go down any team's top 4-5 D-men, the vast majority were starters by 20-22 and top 4 by 23 or so. There are always a few late bloomers but they're not the norm.

Now if you're talking #6/#7 defensemen, the Mannings of this world, sure, they tend to be older because they're not that talented to begin with so they need more experience.

"Weal was waived at age 24 but is now probably a key part of the Flyers top 9 at age 25."
Well, according to Striiker, he won't be for long.

 

[Striiker]

You would think after Hagg and Laughton's uneven development that people would be less gung ho about imposing arbitrary timelines on prospects.

Hell, Weal was waived at age 24 but is now probably a key part of the Flyers top 9 at age 25.

Why must you hurt me?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Why must you hurt me?

do you think Laughton is going to have a Wealy good camp?

ok, I will show myself out.

 

[Appleyard]

Actually, those players are outliers, if you go down any team's top 4-5 D-men, the vast majority were starters by 20-22 and top 4 by 23 or so. There are always a few late bloomers but they're not the norm.

Now if you're talking #6/#7 defensemen, the Mannings of this world, sure, they tend to be older because they're not that talented to begin with so they need more experience.

"Weal was waived at age 24 but is now probably a key part of the Flyers top 9 at age 25."
Well, according to Striiker, he won't be for long.

You are actually correct here deadhead.

If you are not top 4 level at age ~23-24 you probably are never going to be.

http://alongtheboards.com/2015/04/evaluating-development-nhl-defensemen/

But it does happens - Kronwall, Giordano, Markov, Campbell, Boyle, Bieksa, Ehrhoff, Byfuglien, Seidenberg, Methot etc.

But that does not account for situational differences in development etc - like deep teams in front of them etc.


And quite frankly with the prospects the Flyers have - if even 1 of Friedman, Bernhardt, Högberg become #5-6 Dmen who end up playing ~400 NHL games that would be great. We are not like some teams who are hoping against hope that they win the lottery and a guy with realistic ~#4 upside becomes a #2-3 in a few years.

 

[Flyers1987]

I know this is a Myers thread and like his game alot. Think Hagg could be the second best all around defenseman on the team this year right after Provorov. I'm assuming Myers
does not make the team even though he does have the talent to play in the NHL. Let him get acclimated with the pros in the AHL. Once ready I think Myers all around game is right there with Provorov. Sanheim's offense is the reason I would put him over Hagg but all around D Hagg gets the edge for now. This D crop is special.

 

[bostonianeagle]

I know this is a Myers thread and like his game alot. Think Hagg could be the second best all around defenseman on the team this year right after Provorov. I'm assuming Myers
does not make the team even though he does have the talent to play in the NHL. Let him get acclimated with the pros in the AHL. Once ready I think Myers all around game is right there with Provorov. Sanheim's offense is the reason I would put him over Hagg but all around D Hagg gets the edge for now. This D crop is special.

I like your optimism, but what brings you to that hypothesis?

 

[Striiker]

do you think Laughton is going to have a Wealy good camp?

ok, I will show myself out.

What did I do to deserve this?

 

[deadhead]

One problem we all have is as Flyer fans, we're not used to seeing young defensive prospects.
Ghost and Provorov but before that -
Sbisa #19 (2008)
Bourdon #67 (2008)
Marshall #41 (2007)
Bartulis #91 (2004)
Picard #85 (2003)
Pitkanen #4 (2002)
Woywitka #27 (2001)
Seidenberg #172 (2001)
Niinimaa #36 (1993)
Yushkevich #122 (1991)
Therien #47 (1990)

 

[Tripod]

One problem we all have is as Flyer fans, we're not used to seeing young defensive prospects.
Ghost and Provorov but before that -
Sbisa #19 (2008)
Bourdon #67 (2008)
Marshall #41 (2007)
Bartulis #91 (2004)
Picard #85 (2003)
Pitkanen #4 (2002)
Woywitka #27 (2001)
Seidenberg #172 (2001)
Niinimaa #36 (1993)
Yushkevich #122 (1991)
Therien #47 (1990)

It's pretty sad that from 2003-2011, Sbisa is the best Dman we drafted. That's 9 years of crap.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I know this is a Myers thread and like his game alot. Think Hagg could be the second best all around defenseman on the team this year right after Provorov. I'm assuming Myers
does not make the team even though he does have the talent to play in the NHL. Let him get acclimated with the pros in the AHL. Once ready I think Myers all around game is right there with Provorov. Sanheim's offense is the reason I would put him over Hagg but all around D Hagg gets the edge for now. This D crop is special.

Not sure how Hagg has a better all around game than others. He brings very little offensively and in transition.

 

[Curufinwe]

Morin and Hagg will have to provide solid defense to be successful because even reaching 20 points in the NHL will be a struggle without PP time.

 

[Striiker]

Hagg 2nd best?

How in the world will that happen?

Haggs defense won't be more valuable than Ghosts offense. Or Sanheim. Or Myers. And Gudas will probably remain better defensively too.

 

[Flyotes]

I like Hagg, was calling for him to be picked when he was on the board, but he doesn't provide the type of skating and pressure the other defensemen do. I hope he turns out reasonably well rounded, to anchor another, more aggressive defenseman. Be the safe man back.

I obviously want all our D to become superstars, but I would be happy with Hagg becomes the best 6th D in the league.

 

[Pantokrator]

One problem we all have is as Flyer fans, we're not used to seeing young defensive prospects.
Ghost and Provorov but before that -
Sbisa #19 (2008)
Bourdon #67 (2008)
Marshall #41 (2007)
Bartulis #91 (2004)
Picard #85 (2003)
Pitkanen #4 (2002)
Woywitka #27 (2001)
Seidenberg #172 (2001)
Niinimaa #36 (1993)
Yushkevich #122 (1991)
Therien #47 (1990)

I remember thinking that the best two defensemen that the Flyers drafted and developed were Chris Therien and Jimmy Watson.

All of our best defensmen were drafted and developed by other teams - Mark Howe, Eric Desjardins, Kimmo Timmonen.

It would be nice to reverse this trend.

 

[YEM]

It's pretty sad that from 2003-2011, Sbisa is the best Dman we drafted. That's 9 years of crap.

that's an extremely short-sighted point of view considering we traded a lot of high picks for stout blueliners like Steve Eminger and Pavel Kubina, among others

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Hagg really doesnt stand out or is bad in any one area does he? seems to me he is going to be one of those steady defenseman on both sides of the puck at the NHL level.
One of those guys if he is doing his job he isnt really noticeable.

 

[Rebels57]

Sanheim is leaps and bounds better than Hagg.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

i think many of us know this.

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim is leaps and bounds more talented than Hagg.

Corrected.

Hagg has spent three years in the AHL, learning the pro game. He is bigger (bulk) and stronger than Sanheim right now. He's one year older than Sanheim.

Sanheim came out of juniors with a reputation as a great offensive players with some deficiencies on defense, he did work hard in his one year in the AHL to improve in that area.

Sanheim has far more upside, but Hagg is probably the safer choice playing as a rookie this season.

 

[Striiker]

You overate strength so ****ing much.

You do it with Ghost constantly and now somehow you're going to pretend Hagg is even close to Sanheim because he's stronger...

Sanheim will be better and is currently better. It's really not close.

 

[1865]

Corrected.

Hagg has spent three years in the AHL, learning the pro game. He is bigger (bulk) and stronger than Sanheim right now. He's one year older than Sanheim.

Sanheim came out of juniors with a reputation as a great offensive players with some deficiencies on defense, he did work hard in his one year in the AHL to improve in that area.

Sanheim has far more upside, but Hagg is probably the safer choice playing as a rookie this season.

Elite speed and skating negates the need for strength. If you get there first you don't need to muscle anyone off the puck in the first place.