Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Philippe Myers, D to ELC (9/21/15)

[BringBackHakstol]

At least some of these guys most likely will not put it together at the NHL level

Slow cooking Myers, Friedman and anyone else going pro only helps make better decisions around who to keep and who not to

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Why not trade Ghost instead of Hagg? Bad defensively, fat contract, is weak and still thinks he can outskate everyone like he did in college.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ghost could outskate everyone in college, one of his problems in the NHL is he still thinks he can outskate everyone, part of development is knowing when and where you can rely on your athleticism. He's still learning that.

Friedman doesn't have Ghost's raw offensive skill, very few players do. He's not going to be as good as Ghost, especially not as an offensive player. But he's got NHL size, at 5'10 he's stout enough to have the leverage to ride opposing players out of the play and keep from being bumped off the puck. And he has the skill package to succeed.

Kevin Bieksa has had a pretty good NHL career as a 5th rd pick out of Bowling Green.

Stop talking like you have any idea how Friedman plays in relation to Ghost. Once again you're making assumptions. Friedman is a good player but don't even try to compare him to Ghost.

I hate to break it to you but Ghost still outskates guys at the highest level of hockey.

Bieksa didn't play in the WCHA so thanks for proving my point.

edit: I do like how you bring up +/- to say Myers is better than Sanheim defensively but when Ghost's triples Friedman's he's not as good.

 

[Magua]

I do like how you bring up +/- to say Myers is better than Sanheim defensively but when Ghost's triples Friedman's he's not as good.

Friedman has a better weight adjusted +/-

 

[FLYguy3911]

Friedman has a better weight adjusted +/-

Touché

 

[deadhead]

My point was simply that even Ghost didn't put up huge offensive numbers as the top offensive defenseman in college hockey. So Friedman's offensive numbers are quite respectable. Enough to quality as a legitimate two way defenseman.

I don't think Ghost is the comparable for Friedman (Sanheim is another story), but Kimmo. Friedman's success will depend on his smarts and fundamentals, he's not going to outskate his mistakes like Ghost, but he's much stronger.

Ghost outskates most NHL players, but not to the extent he did in college, I've seen him beat more than once - and that's part of his learning curve, respecting that he's going against better athletes. Sanheim will have the same issue, one reason Hextall wanted him focusing on defense at Lehigh.

 

[Magua]

Friedman's success will depend on his smarts and fundamentals, he's not going to outskate his mistakes like Ghost, but he's much stronger

This seems to imply Ghost isn't that smart. He's incredibly smart. Hopefully Friedman is as smart as HIM.

Also, Friedman is probably a better straight line skater than Ghost and incredibly mobile, though not in the shifty way Ghost is. I'm sure he can outskate his mistakes.

 

[FLYguy3911]

My point was simply that even Ghost didn't put up huge offensive numbers as the top offensive defenseman in college hockey. So Friedman's offensive numbers are quite respectable. Enough to quality as a legitimate two way defenseman.

I don't think Ghost is the comparable for Friedman (Sanheim is another story), but Kimmo. Friedman's success will depend on his smarts and fundamentals, he's not going to outskate his mistakes like Ghost, but he's much stronger.

Ghost outskates most NHL players, but not to the extent he did in college, I've seen him beat more than once - and that's part of his learning curve, respecting that he's going against better athletes. Sanheim will have the same issue, one reason Hextall wanted him focusing on defense at Lehigh.

Jeez ya think?

Friedman outscored Provorov in the USHL should we go there? I don't think so.

Would you believe me if I told you Ghost wasn't a full time member of Union's #1 PP? The ECAC isn't a great conference but it has a better track record of producing NHL players than the WCHA. Comparing raw points for college defensemen isn't too reliable anyway. Smaller sample size of games, league scoring factors, team systems, etc. Friedman is a good player just don't put him in the same sentence as Ghost.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think Ghost is incredibly smart, he has great instincts in the offensive zone, but if he's that smart, how come he made so many sloppy passes and plays last year?

 

[FLYguy3911]

If Provorov was so smart why did he have so many bad turnovers last year?

 

[Striiker]

If Hakstol hadn't healthy scratched Ghost we wouldn't need to be hearing this nonsense.

The second it happened it meant that he was on Deadheads complaint list, since he's not capable of disagreeing with Hakstol on anything.

Do we have any proof that he isn't Hakstol?

 

[deadhead]

If Provorov was so smart why did he have so many bad turnovers last year?

Because he was a 19 year old rookie given heavy responsibilities (most TOI of any defenseman) who was learning on the job. Second half he was making fewer mistakes as he climbed the learning curve.

Even at 19, Provorov has better fundamentals (positioning, angles) than Ghost.

 

[Curufinwe]

I like Friedman a lot as a prospect. But the idea that's he's gonna be one and done in the AHL when Morin and Hagg couldn't manage that, is far fetched to say the least. We don't even know how he's going to be used this season in the AHL. If he plays 70 games in the Phantoms top 4 with PP and PK time like Sanheim did, then he could be an NHL option for 18-19. But he will have Brennan, Alt, O'Neill, Myers, Willcox and probably one of Hagg or Sanheim to climb over to do that.

 

[Striiker]

Smarts =/= experience.

You don't get smarter with age, you become more experienced and gain more knowledge.

Provorov is a very smart hockey player, Ghost is too. The point FLYguy was making was that smart players make mistakes too, so Ghost making mistakes doesn't mean he isn't smart. If you'd prefer, name the smartest player in the league... that person makes mistakes too.

 

[Curufinwe]

Why not trade Ghost instead of Hagg? Bad defensively, fat contract, is weak and still thinks he can outskate everyone like he did in college.

Friedman is just like Ghost but stronger so pencil him in for 40 NHL points at age 22, and ship Master Softee out to some dumb team that likes weaklings.

 

[deadhead]

I like Friedman a lot as a prospect. But idea that's he's gonna be one and done in the AHL when Morin and Hagg couldn't manage that, is far fetched to say the least. We don't even know how he's going to be used this season in the AHL. If he plays 70 games in the Phantoms top 4 with PP and PK time like Sanheim did, then he could be an NHL option for 18-19. But he will have Brennan, Alt, O'Neill, Myers, Willcox and probably one of Hagg or Sanheim to climb over to do that.

If after an extra year in the USHL, 3 years starting in college and a year in the AHL, Friedman isn't ready to compete for a spot, then odds are he has no future with the Flyers. He'll turn 23 in 2018-19, at that point Ghost had been called up, and it's older than Hagg, Morin and Sanheim this year.

Of course, if he doesn't show much at LHV, it's a moot point, they'll just let him walk in a couple years. But if Friedman makes the same progress that our other young defensemen have made, it's going to be hard to bury him in the AHL for 2-3 years.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Enough with if Player X doesn't do Y and Z next year he's a nothing prospect.

There are guys that have played at much higher levels of hockey before turning pro than Friedman, who have had to play more than one full season in the AHL. Hell look at Hagg.

Friedman is probably going to be buried on the AHL depth chart to start the year. He'll have to work his way up. Wouldn't shock me if he uses up most of his waiver eligibility in LHV and it probably won't have much to do with how he plays. Cracking the Flyers blueline won't be easy moving forward.

 

[Striiker]

It'll be much harder for him to get on the Flyers too. He's not competing with Streit and Del Zotto...

Who is he beating out of Gudas, Ghost, or Myers? He won't be on the left side like Provorov, Morin, or Sanheim. And for all we know there could be other people in those spots or fighting for them.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg was 19 his first year in the AHL, he played there instead of junior hockey. So he really only played "two" years in the AHL, and will turn 23 this season. Morin played two years out of juniors and will turn 22 this season. Given Friedman's age and experience, he should show he belongs in the NHL by the end of this season, he's not a 20 year old juniors graduate. And since he's filled out his frame, he's unlikely to be a "late bloomer." So I'll be disappointed if he doesn't prove to be a solid player this year and can hold his own in the AHL.

Friedman will get plenty of PK and ES time, which is where he has to excel in any case, with Ghost, Provorov and Sanheim in front of him, even if he makes the Flyers in a year or two, it would be years before he saw any PP time. So it doesn't matter if he plays PP in the AHL.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Outplaying someone in a tiny sample size doesn't really mean that much. Especially when the games are basically a scrimmage against teams that are mostly AHL/CHL guys, with only a handful of NHLers sprinkled in.

They have to make an educated guess on how each young guys will play over a full season and where would be best for their long term future.

So even if Myers looks really good in his one or two games, it might be best to go to the AHL

I'm just saying I want the best players in the NHL lineup. Again, I'm not at all predicting it will happen, but if Myers can show he's one of the best 6 defensemen in the org, I want him on the team.

This team almost missed the playoffs two seasons ago because they held Ghost back. It's perhaps an extreme example, but I don't want the team to miss out on icing its best lineup.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't think Friedman is near Ghost, but I do think he's fallen under the radar and is a pretty good prospect. He has impressive skills and I bet he'll open some eyes as an AHL rookie.

 

[Swic21]

It's sort of funny how Myers name isn't mentioned on this page at all... sorry aside from the first post. Weird.

 

[deadhead]

They didn't hold Ghost back, he was injured the previous season when he should have gotten his one AHL season, and I think they both wanted him to get pro experience and bring him back slowly. And Hextall probably wanted him to fill out a bit to handle NHL hitting.

I think we'll see different timetables for different players:
MV - he's probably the first callup, at age 24 they just want him to get some pro experience, since he's unlikely to make the team out of camp
AK - second season, they'll expect him to be ready by season's end
Myers, Friedman - want them to have that one season under their belt
The Swedish defensemen - if they play a full SHL season this year and show they belong, then I doubt they'll spend more than a year in the AHL
Lindblom - don't even waste his time, same with Patrick
Rubtsov - depends on his play in juniors/AHL this year
Frost - Hextall might take his time with him given his undeveloped frame

And so on.

Hextall has the luxury of marinating lesser players, but once a player shows they're "too good" for the AHL you need to fish or cut bait, because it just creates ill will to bury a player who's ready for the NHL.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hagg was 19 his first year in the AHL, he played there instead of junior hockey. So he really only played "two" years in the AHL, and will turn 23 this season. Morin played two years out of juniors and will turn 22 this season. Given Friedman's age and experience, he should show he belongs in the NHL by the end of this season, he's not a 20 year old juniors graduate. And since he's filled out his frame, he's unlikely to be a "late bloomer." So I'll be disappointed if he doesn't prove to be a solid player this year and can hold his own in the AHL.

Friedman will get plenty of PK and ES time, which is where he has to excel in any case, with Ghost, Provorov and Sanheim in front of him, even if he makes the Flyers in a year or two, it would be years before he saw any PP time. So it doesn't matter if he plays PP in the AHL.

Forget that Hagg also played 1.5 years in the SHL? He's the perfect example that evaluating players based on where they played and not how they played is the wrong way to go about these things.

Expecting Friedman to play well in the AHL as a rookie is a fine expectation. Expecting him to be in the NHL by 2018 (as an extra no less) and if he's not he's a non-prospect, is completely ridiculous. They give you 3 years of waiver exemption for a reason.

 

[Tripod]

They didn't hold Ghost back, he was injured the previous season when he should have gotten his one AHL season, and I think they both wanted him to get pro experience and bring him back slowly. And Hextall probably wanted him to fill out a bit to handle NHL hitting.

I think we'll see different timetables for different players:
MV - he's probably the first callup, at age 24 they just want him to get some pro experience, since he's unlikely to make the team out of camp
AK - second season, they'll expect him to be ready by season's end
Myers, Friedman - want them to have that one season under their belt
The Swedish defensemen - if they play a full SHL season this year and show they belong, then I doubt they'll spend more than a year in the AHL
Lindblom - don't even waste his time, same with Patrick
Rubtsov - depends on his play in juniors/AHL this year
Frost - Hextall might take his time with him given his undeveloped frame

And so on.

Hextall has the luxury of marinating lesser players, but once a player shows they're "too good" for the AHL you need to fish or cut bait, because it just creates ill will to bury a player who's ready for the NHL.

Where the hell are you expecting all these a Dmen to play?

You are saying that in 1-2 years, Friedman, Myers, Hogberg, Bernhardt will be NHL ready.

With Provy, Ghost, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Gudas at the NHL level....they likely say it will be a longer timeline for most of them.

Reality is, we can AFFORD to leave guys in the AHL longer than usual due to the depth in front of them. And we can move out the #5-7 guys if we wish, and move guys up.