Flyers Regular Season Postmortem Thread VI

[BernieParent]

Bellemare doesn't really deserve a spot at the table. He's a spare part and the team would be better served if someone who actually important is there i.e. Couturier/Voracek/Schenn. No reason for Hakstol to be there either.

As much as you and I don't believe his play makes him deserving, Bellemare wears an A and should be at the hypothetical meeting. Basically, from the players' side, you have the good cop, the bad cop, and the criminal.

Hakstol absolutely needs to be there, as the whole crux would be to openly and honestly lay out what went wrong and right about this past season, and what they collectively believe should happen going into 2017-18.

 

[hatcher]

Flyers forwards no matter whos there better start playing two way hockey and ****in back check to help the d. Next to coots and filp now the forwards are no where in their own zone.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Flyers forwards no matter whos there better start playing two way hockey and ****in back check to help the d. Next to coots and filp now the forwards are no where in their own zone.

Very true. Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, in particular, were lazy backcheckers for much of the season.

 

[hatcher]

Very true. Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, in particular, were lazy backcheckers for much of the season.

The core should be the example for young players and this year was the worst yet.

 

[Striiker]

As always, it's easy to tell who watches and who just wants to make up stuff to complain about.

 

[Hurricane28]

That 14-15 D-core...woof

 

[Rebels57]

As always, it's easy to tell who watches and who just wants to make up stuff to complain about.

This place is turning into 'Idiocracy'

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

This place is turning into 'Idiocracy'

and it isnt just with folks who dont watch 82 games a year or most of the games.
The game day threads are a tough read. Sometimes I get thru 2 or 3 pages and I have to go read another thread. It is the same old crap.

 

[Flyotes]

GDTs get special dispensation. Be mad, say crazy stuff. We're fans. I'd rather it there where I can be tilted with you-- rather than more analytical threads.

 

[Bill_Meltzer]

Absolutely not true.

I recall a team in 1997 that defeated the Philadelphia Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals employing a platoon.

Vernon and Osgood rotated during the regular season but Vernon was the exclusive number one in the playoffs that year.

 

[deadhead]

I think there are some who think they're analytical when they're living in the past. A few years ago you had Kimmo - Coburn and G & V at the the top of their game - and this was still an 85-95 point team! Now our anchor defensive pair are long gone and G & V have slipped appreciably the last two years.

So it's obvious that the future isn't with the players who carried us nowhere in the past - it doesn't mean Hextall has to rush to get rid of them, it's just that they're not essential pieces going forward and should be considered expendable, just like everyone else not named Provorov.

This is the offseason when Hextall can stop treading water, where he has cap room, extra draft picks and room to maneuver. I'm certainly not suggesting going for some "star" with a year or two left on his contract, next year is when the rebuild takes off but they're still 3 years away from being a cup contender (when the young defense is in place with a couple years of experience and the franchise goalie has been identified).

So Hextall should be focused on moves that will strengthen the 2019-20 Flyers, not the 2017-18 Flyers. If he has to take one step back, moving a veteran or two, to build up quality depth (he's taken care of quantity) along the forward lines, so be it. Had Holmgren followed up the Carter/Richard trades by continuing to add young talent instead of patching around the loss of Pronger, we'd be two years further along (same way Phillies wasted 2 years hoping for one last run).

I have no problem watching a Flyers team next year with shaky young goalies, inexperienced defensemen and young fast forwards making mistakes and ending up out of the playoffs - I just don't want to watch another season of a veteran core come up short.

 

[hatcher]

I think there are some who think they're analytical when they're living in the past. A few years ago you had Kimmo - Coburn and G & V at the the top of their game - and this was still an 85-95 point team! Now our anchor defensive pair are long gone and G & V have slipped appreciably the last two years.

So it's obvious that the future isn't with the players who carried us nowhere in the past - it doesn't mean Hextall has to rush to get rid of them, it's just that they're not essential pieces going forward and should be considered expendable, just like everyone else not named Provorov.

This is the offseason when Hextall can stop treading water, where he has cap room, extra draft picks and room to maneuver. I'm certainly not suggesting going for some "star" with a year or two left on his contract, next year is when the rebuild takes off but they're still 3 years away from being a cup contender (when the young defense is in place with a couple years of experience and the franchise goalie has been identified).

So Hextall should be focused on moves that will strengthen the 2019-20 Flyers, not the 2017-18 Flyers. If he has to take one step back, moving a veteran or two, to build up quality depth (he's taken care of quantity) along the forward lines, so be it. Had Holmgren followed up the Carter/Richard trades by continuing to add young talent instead of patching around the loss of Pronger, we'd be two years further along (same way Phillies wasted 2 years hoping for one last run).

I have no problem watching a Flyers team next year with shaky young goalies, inexperienced defensemen and young fast forwards making mistakes and ending up out of the playoffs - I just don't want to watch another season of a veteran core come up short.

Exactly. This core is done and easy to see it won't win nothing big together. The young guys are whats gonna be fun next year again and hopefully some big move that kills this dead core.

 

[Rebels57]

and it isnt just with folks who dont watch 82 games a year or most of the games.
The game day threads are a tough read. Sometimes I get thru 2 or 3 pages and I have to go read another thread. It is the same old crap.

I can't talk too much **** on the GDTs, as I do sometimes contribute to the madness there

 

[Hockeypete49]

I back Ron Hextall 100%(thank you for getting rid of MDZ). Hakstol is not the problem here, he is part of the rebuilding process our GM is putting together. Like I said before, the addition of Filppula has really seemed to help Couts and that will be a big help next season. For me I hope Jake and G have a better season than the one that just passed. For some reason there were to many games where they were shut down by the opposing team(far to easy) and Ron needs to give them help. Our defense will be better but I have no clue who will be our two goalies next year. Should be an interesting off season.

 

[kelmitchell]

Flyers forwards no matter whos there better start playing two way hockey and ****in back check to help the d. Next to coots and filp now the forwards are no where in their own zone.

Giroux, simmonds, read, coots, and filp are very good at back checking, we can have a team full of 2 way players amd youd still be unhappy

 

[Beef Invictus]

Exactly. This core is done and easy to see it won't win nothing big together. The young guys are whats gonna be fun next year again and hopefully some big move that kills this dead core.

We've literally never seen this core with proper supporting depth or D, and you proclaim they're finished. That is absurdity.

That core dragged crap D and crap bottom six to the playoffs last year with goalie support. Were they crap then?

 

[Lindberg]

Hakstol is absolutely a problem. Any coach that says Andrew MacDonald is a top #3 (can lead a second pairing) you have some serious cognitive dissonance going on in his brain. Slightly overpaid #3s don't go to the AHL and come back on waivers. I'm still waiting for someone to actually argue against this with common sense who comes to the defense of Hakstol.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think there are some who think they're analytical when they're living in the past. A few years ago you had Kimmo - Coburn and G & V at the the top of their game - and this was still an 85-95 point team! Now our anchor defensive pair are long gone and G & V have slipped appreciably the last two years.

So it's obvious that the future isn't with the players who carried us nowhere in the past - it doesn't mean Hextall has to rush to get rid of them, it's just that they're not essential pieces going forward and should be considered expendable, just like everyone else not named Provorov.

This is the offseason when Hextall can stop treading water, where he has cap room, extra draft picks and room to maneuver. I'm certainly not suggesting going for some "star" with a year or two left on his contract, next year is when the rebuild takes off but they're still 3 years away from being a cup contender (when the young defense is in place with a couple years of experience and the franchise goalie has been identified).

So Hextall should be focused on moves that will strengthen the 2019-20 Flyers, not the 2017-18 Flyers. If he has to take one step back, moving a veteran or two, to build up quality depth (he's taken care of quantity) along the forward lines, so be it. Had Holmgren followed up the Carter/Richard trades by continuing to add young talent instead of patching around the loss of Pronger, we'd be two years further along (same way Phillies wasted 2 years hoping for one last run).

I have no problem watching a Flyers team next year with shaky young goalies, inexperienced defensemen and young fast forwards making mistakes and ending up out of the playoffs - I just don't want to watch another season of a veteran core come up short.

The last time G, V, Kimmo, and Coburn were all at something that can be considered their best, Bryzgalov was the goaltender. That's quite the big ****ing omission on your part.

 

[hatcher]

We've literally never seen this core with proper supporting depth or D, and you proclaim they're finished. That is absurdity.

That core dragged crap D and crap bottom six to the playoffs last year with goalie support. Were they crap then?

I hope your right man. I want a cup not old players past there prime skating with our young horeses doing nothing most games.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Flyers need to find a way to sign Victor Ejdsell

 

[deadhead]

Coaches say things like that all the time, they don't like to throw players under the bus - fans get all excited about a coach who "speaks the truth" until the clubhouse rebels.

Watch MacDonald quietly fade into the background next season, and he'll be gone in two years.

Most of the complaints this season consist of "he played twiddle de over twiddle dum," in other words, "much ado about nothing."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, that's true. Coaches do say things all the time. You cannot have a coach trashing his players publicly constantly.


His usage of MacDonald on the top pairing, however, was deeply questionable. That guy's good play can only be measured in shifts, almost never in good all-around games. That level of responsibility was way over his head.


But hey, it underscores how insanely competent Provorov already is.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Coaches say things like that all the time, they don't like to throw players under the bus - fans get all excited about a coach who "speaks the truth" until the clubhouse rebels.

Watch MacDonald quietly fade into the background next season, and he'll be gone in two years.

Most of the complaints this season consist of "he played twiddle de over twiddle dum," in other words, "much ado about nothing."

Your posts are "much ado about nothing"

 

[deadhead]

The last time G, V, Kimmo, and Coburn were all at something that can be considered their best, Bryzgalov was the goaltender. That's quite the big ****ing omission on your part.

They didn't make Bob look good when he was there.

Same .905 save percentage that year and this season.
.510 winning % that year, .537 this year.
So Hakstol > Lav?

Hakstol got them to the playoffs last year with a .920 save %
Berube got them to the playoffs with a .912 save % then missed the next season with a .914 save %

Point is they've been a mediocre team for a while, and you can't just blame the goalies, bad goalies - miss playoffs, average goalies, maybe make it, good goalies make the playoffs.

In that case, going forward, there's no reason to retain any of the core if someone makes a good offer that would make this team younger and better a couple years down the road. Because they're not winning much the next two years with the current players.

 

[hatcher]

They didn't make Bob look good when he was there.

Same .905 save percentage that year and this season.
.510 winning % that year, .537 this year.
So Hakstol > Lav?

Hakstol got them to the playoffs last year with a .920 save %
Berube got them to the playoffs with a .912 save % then missed the next season with a .914 save %

Point is they've been a mediocre team for a while, and you can't just blame the goalies, bad goalies - miss playoffs, average goalies, maybe make it, good goalies make the playoffs.

In that case, going forward, there's no reason to retain any of the core if someone makes a good offer that would make this team younger and better a couple years down the road. Because they're not winning much the next two years with the current players.

average core group won't be better with better d unless they play a two game night in and out which they don't.