Flyers Regular Season Postmortem Thread VI

[pit]

I get what Mase is saying..but he is coming off sounding kind of..like ..well a bad primadonna

Bill Meltzer‏ @billmeltzer 6m6 minutes ago
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Mason: "Told Hexy to do me favor & make decision ASAP. I have things I have to take care of as far as a house. He said he’d contact my agent

Hextall could call Mason's agent tomorrow and say he isn't signing him and Mason still can't do anything. He can't negotiate with new teams until the window opens for Vegas and then not again until July 1. I understand wanting to get things sorted, but you actually can't just yet unless Hextall knows he is re-signing you.

 

[Rebels57]

^^^that is exactly whats going to happen..

its going to cost us the better goalie and YET another season wasted to get there thou...

not enuf faceplam to fill this thread...

 

[Flyerfan4life]

So lemme get this straight:

"Mason: I want to stay & I need Hextall to call my agent as soon as he can, cuz I have a wife and new child to figure out our lives"...WHAT AN ARROGANT JERK- Flyers fans

"Ghost: I am just going to go out there and make whatever play comes to mind. Don't really care if the coach tries to hold me accountable for it"....YEAH GHOST WAY TO GO! - Flyers fans


I know I'm hyping this a little bit, but that's the gist of what I've gotten from these tweets. Ghost is the one who said the arrogant thing (if anything, which I don't think it really is)...not Mason!

get out of here with ur crazy logic...

 

[BillDineen]

I bet Mason in the end signs for equal or less than Neuvirth's contract somewhere.

 

[BillDineen]

So funny that Hak played MDZ 4th most TOI/G and 3rd most TOI/G and yet he was never coming back. Including no variation after a healthy scratch.

Also, I assume (hope) that no one wanted him at the trade deadline, because if they did, he should have been traded.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

So funny that Hak played MDZ 4th most TOI/G and 3rd most TOI/G and yet he was never coming back. Including no variation after a healthy scratch.

Also, I assume (hope) that no one wanted him at the trade deadline, because if they did, he should have been traded.

Mdz's style of play doesn't lend itself much popularity come playoff time.

 

[Psuhockey]

As has been repeated roughly a hundred times, Neuvirth didn't simply get a raise in response to this season, he was given a fair contract and it only looks odd because previously he was underpaid.

They gave him the amount they're expecting him to be worth next year.

I think they paid him a little more. I don't see how his worth increased over the past two years from a backup to a starter. However, I think that is due to the expansion draft. Any good agent is going to ask for more money if it is understood their player could get picked by an expansion team.

 

[Striiker]

I think they paid him a little more. I don't see how his worth increased over the past two years from a backup to a starter. However, I think that is due to the expansion draft. Any good agent is going to ask for more money if it is understood their player could get picked by an expansion team.

His real skill is somewhere in between last year and this year, and he was paid somewhere between what he earned last year and this year. I think his current contract is fair, especially when you consider that Hextall seems to like to give tiny bumps in $$$ to compensate for shorter term and no clauses.

So many people seem to believe that he's going to be the same next year as this year, and that's incredibly unlikely. If you believe that then I see why you might not like the contract, but if you expect him to bounce back then the contract is fine.

 

[Psuhockey]

His real skill is somewhere in between last year and this year, and he was paid somewhere between what he earned last year and this year. I think his current contract is fair, especially when you consider that Hextall seems to like to give tiny bumps in $$$ to compensate for shorter term and no clauses.

So many people seem to believe that he's going to be the same next year as this year, and that's incredibly unlikely. If you believe that then I see why you might not like the contract, but if you expect him to bounce back then the contract is fine.

I think he should of been paid exactly what he is currently being paid at $1.6 mil cap hit. I don't see how his value has risen or fell based on the last two years compared to what it was when he first signed here.

 

[Striiker]

I think he should of been paid exactly what he is currently being paid at $1.6 mil cap hit. I don't see how his value has risen or fell based on the last two years compared to what it was when he first signed here.

Because he basically showed what his ceiling (last year) and floor (this year) are, and we can use that to guess his more consistent potential.

His career save percentage is .911 so this is an appropriate contract for that.

 

[Psuhockey]

Because he basically showed what his ceiling (last year) and floor (this year) are, and we can use that to guess his more consistent potential.

His career save percentage is .911 so this is an appropriate contract for that.

But he was pretty much at that save percentage when he signed here two years ago. So what changed? The past two years save percentage average out to .9075 so right in line with his career.

Do you think some team was going to sign him as a starter? If so, then the raise is justified. I don't so that's probably where we disagree.

 

[Tripod]

I think Neuvirth will be better than this year, he can't be much worse. I expect he will be around the .914 mark next year.

I just don't think he is what we needed based on that we have 2 guys who could be backups next year.

Personally, I would have rather us signed/traded for a "tweener" to expose at the ED. And then go out and re-sign Mason or another UFA STARTER for next year. That way, we have our designated starter, and if Lyon or Stolie shine at camp, they can be the backup. And if they don't, they start in the AHL while the tweener sits on the bench. And we could always re-call one of them to play on back to backs if you don't want the tweener to start.

This offseason, with teams only protecting 1 goalie, it was an opportunity to grab someone who might not always be available. We could have talked to LV and get them to grab an extra goalie from a team in exchange for another forward since we have extra bodies and LV's pick of forwards could be slim.

There were lots of options instead of signing a backup to a 2 year deal when Stolie only has 1 year left before he needs to clear waivers.

But hey, it's Philly.....time for goalie issues.

 

[Striiker]

But he was pretty much at that save percentage when he signed here two years ago. So what changed? The past two years save percentage average out to .9075 so right in line with his career.

Do you think some team was going to sign him as a starter? If so, then the raise is justified. I don't so that's probably where we disagree.

That's a good question, I'm not sure. I would think there could be someone somewhere willing to take a gamble on him as their starter, but no way to know for sure. It's a cheap/short contract so there's no real risk.

Maybe that's the gamble Hextall is willing to take next year, just to see if he can bounce back to previous form (which I definitely think he will, although how effective he can be is unsure).

Mason seems "prickly" at the moment so maybe Hextall wants to steer away from him and take the risk of seeing if Neuvirth bounces back and what Stolarz can do. It's not the worst gamble in the world when considering next year is another building year with all these rookies likely to be in the lineup. Anything is better than committing to a long term goalie contract, no matter who it is... that's the one thing I'd avoid at all costs.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Because he basically showed what his ceiling (last year) and floor (this year) are, and we can use that to guess his more consistent potential.

His career save percentage is .911 so this is an appropriate contract for that.

Well I think that's my issue. At best, he's a borderline #1. At worst, he's bad.

With two guys waiting to be backups (or even signing another backup at 900K), why spend a premium salary for a backup on a guy who at best is a tweener when we could probably use that cash elsewhere?

I can't say he's worth the contract still relative to what we could've gotten for likely similar output.

 

[Striiker]

Well I think that's my issue. At best, he's a borderline #1. At worst, he's bad.

With two guys waiting to be backups (or even signing another backup at 900K), why spend a premium salary for a backup on a guy who at best is a tweener when we could probably use that cash elsewhere?

I can't say he's worth the contract still relative to what we could've gotten for likely similar output.

No, at best he's a very good #1 (0.924), at worst he's bad (0.891).

Realistically, he's almost certainly somewhere in between there, and if that's true then this contract is fair. If he puts up a .910 season next year then the contract isn't bad at all.

 

[Danko]

Im for keeping Mase at this point. I don't think he's going to want what Hexy offers him though. I don't think he's worth what he thinks he's worth.

 

[Tripod]

No, at best he's a very good #1 (0.924), at worst he's bad (0.891).

Realistically, he's almost certainly somewhere in between there, and if that's true then this contract is fair. If he puts up a .910 season next year then the contract isn't bad at all.

No....at best he is a .924 BACKUP because he is not capable of playing 50 games....and had the .924 in 32 games.

I said LAST summer that Neuvirth was a top 5 backup. And when he is on, he is. But he is in no way a number one because he can't stay healthy to play enough games.

As others have said, we signed him 2 years ago and since then, he had 1 good year and one bad.....yet gets a raise on a multi year deal.

Mason has 3 1/4 good years and 1 bad....and appears to be on his way out.

Both will bounce back next year. But from the tone of what Mason was saying, it won't be in Philly. Look at what he said vs what Weal was saying. It certainly sounds like Weal and his agent AND Hextall want to try and get a deal done. I don't get those vibes from Mason. I was hoping to hear: "Hextall and my agent have had some good discussions and we are hopeful in getting a deal done before FA starts". That didn't happen. If Hextall wanted Mason back and wanted to wait until after the ED, Mason would have said different things in a different way than he did.

Mason won't be back.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, durability has been an issue but I was specifically talking quality of play when he's actually playing.

His health is the only real concern I have, I think he'll play fine next year but if he can't stay healthy then who cares, right?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

No, at best he's a very good #1 (0.924), at worst he's bad (0.891).

Realistically, he's almost certainly somewhere in between there, and if that's true then this contract is fair. If he puts up a .910 season next year then the contract isn't bad at all.

I mean, Tripod already nailed it for me. You skewed the numbers to justify this deal, I think. You can't honestly tell me that you think this guy is a starter and feel okay about it.

He never has been legitimate, and never will be. At best, he had one season of putting up starter workload (even that's a stretch). He's a very good backup, but we don't need a Top 5 backup that badly (at a premium) when we need to get a legitimate #1 first.

 

[Tripod]

Im for keeping Mase at this point. I don't think he's going to want what Hexy offers him though. I don't think he's worth what he thinks he's worth.

But what is that number?

Over the last 4 years, so it included this awful year, he is tied for 12th in SV% with Lundqvist, Dubby, Anderson and Anderson for goalies playing at least 100 games. That's pretty good.

This year, the 12th highest paid goalie was paid $5.9 million. So Mason gave us MUCH better goaltending vs what he was paid when you compare him to the other goalies.

Now in no way am I saying he should get $5.9 million. But his $4.1 million puts him at #25.

Currently, there are 16 goalies set to make 5 million next year with Bishop for sure making it 17. If Mason got $4.5, that puts him in the 20th position for paid goalies....maybe 21 if Miller gets that or more.

Based on the last 4 years...$4.5-5.3 million is where Mason SHOULD see his contract at. Of course his agent would ask on the high side.

But due to the lack of starters spots open, and coming off a bad year, it would not shock me to see him have to settle for a 1 year 3-4 million deal, and he will out-perform that deal easily.

 

[Striiker]

I mean, Tripod already nailed it for me. You skewed the numbers to justify this deal he got instead of saying we overpaid. You can't honestly tell me that you think this guy is a starter and feel okay about it.

He never has been legitimate, and never will be. At best, he had one season of putting up starter workload (even that's a stretch). He's a very good backup, but we don't need a Top 5 backup that badly (at a premium) when we need to get a legitimate #1 first.

I don't see how I "skewed the numbers"...

But no, I'm not comfortable with him being starter. Like I said, I think he'll be better next year than this year, but that doesn't mean I'd choose him to be the starter.

Obviously Mason's a better option (ignoring contracts), not disputing that at all... I'm just saying that I don't agree that Neuvirths contract is an issue or share in the rage that he's getting a raise.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don't see how I "skewed the numbers"...

But no, I'm not comfortable with him being starter. Like I said, I think he'll be better next year than this year, but that doesn't mean I'd choose him to be the starter.

Obviously Mason's a better option (ignoring contracts), not disputing that at all... I'm just saying that I don't agree that Neuvirths contract is an issue or share in the rage that he's getting a raise.

Skewed it by mentioning his incredible save percentage, but that doesn't help us too much when he can only do that in 30 games. Still have to account for the other 50. Heck, a hot streak can bump his % to .925 over only 30 games. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it makes Neuvirth's deal seem much more reasonable when looking at it as a .924 season.

Overall, I think we agree, it's just a matter of why overpay this guy who we know already cannot be a starter when we don't (seem to) have a plan for an actual #1?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Davis Payne was let go by LA. It could be something to look at if any assistants get canned.

I'm on board. He's whom I wanted the Flyers to hire when they hired Hakstol.

 

[BillDineen]

I stated I would have preferred Zatkoff claimed off waivers and buried in the ECHL next season instead of Neuvirth's signing. I am not sure why it was done at the deadline. For a "long and hard" thinker, it was odd timing by Hextall.

Having said that, I am guessing Hextall is fine with a platoon with another goalie (assuming Neuvirth isn't taken in the ED). If so, no team has won the cup with that strategy in goal. I guess he is fine with it the next two seasons continuing the rebuild.
There isn't an obvious No.1 solution out there anyway.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall has to start playing young goalies in the NHL.
He's facing a logjam in the AHL, how are you going to get Madsen to sign if all you can offer is the ECHL?

If you resign Mason for two years, you've basically decided to let your older goalie prospects walk.