Flyers Regular Season Postmortem Thread VI

[Tripod]

Hextall has to start playing young goalies in the NHL.
He's facing a logjam in the AHL, how are you going to get Madsen to sign if all you can offer is the ECHL?

If you resign Mason for two years, you've basically decided to let your older goalie prospects walk.

We all want to have a young guy in the NHL in an ideal world. But you need to have him as the backup with a starter who can handle 50+ games.

Hence why Neuvirth re-signing is odd. We have no starter AND we block a kid from the backup spot.

I would like to think Hextall has a plan though for the starters role. He must. In no way can I see a Neuvirth/Stolie tandem to start the season.

 

[TheTaekster]

I stated I would have preferred Zatkoff claimed off waivers and buried in the ECHL next season instead of Neuvirth's signing. I am not sure why it was done at the deadline. For a "long and hard" thinker, it was odd timing by Hextall.

Having said that, I am guessing Hextall is fine with a platoon with another goalie (assuming Neuvirth isn't taken in the ED). If so, no team has won the cup with that strategy in goal. I guess he is fine with it the next two seasons continuing the rebuild.
There isn't an obvious No.1 solution out there anyway.

Absolutely not true.

I recall a team in 1997 that defeated the Philadelphia Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals employing a platoon.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Absolutely not true.

I recall a team in 1997 that defeated the Philadelphia Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals employing a platoon.

Or the 2010 Blackhawks who...also beat the Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Well, not platoon during the series, but platooned that season.

 

[Lindberg]

Hextall has to start playing young goalies in the NHL.
He's facing a logjam in the AHL, how are you going to get Madsen to sign if all you can offer is the ECHL?

If you resign Mason for two years, you've basically decided to let your older goalie prospects walk.

Might be the first time I somewhat agree with deadhead. Everyone on this forum goes head over heels about prospects but not with goalies. Two years wouldn't be long enough to basically let your older goalie prospects walk though if they didn't re-sign Neuvirth. It really is about time for this club to sink or start swimming with their prospects/young players.

 

[BillDineen]

Absolutely not true.

I recall a team in 1997 that defeated the Philadelphia Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals employing a platoon.

True, next to never unless the rest of your team is filled with some of the best players ever.

 

[BillDineen]

We all want to have a young guy in the NHL in an ideal world. But you need to have him as the backup with a starter who can handle 50+ games.

Hence why Neuvirth re-signing is odd. We have no starter AND we block a kid from the backup spot.

I would like to think Hextall has a plan though for the starters role. He must. In no way can I see a Neuvirth/Stolie tandem to start the season.

Very good point.

 

[Lindberg]

So funny that Hak played MDZ 4th most TOI/G and 3rd most TOI/G and yet he was never coming back. Including no variation after a healthy scratch.

Also, I assume (hope) that no one wanted him at the trade deadline, because if they did, he should have been traded.

Hakstol is a consistently inconsistent coach. He refuses to alter his decision making process when things are continually going bad. He really could be the face of Initech (office space) with trying to shove square pegs in round holes.

 

[BillDineen]

Or the 2010 Blackhawks who...also beat the Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Well, not platoon during the series, but platooned that season.

But that wasn't by design. Huet turned into a failure quickly.

 

[renberg]

After reading some of the comments made by some of the Flyers players following their exit interviews, I got more than a bit ticked off. This team was a bad team. As bad of a team as we've seen in town over the last twenty-five years and up with the three worst teams in Flyers' history. To me, it would have been best for some of these guys to have just been quiet and left town.
If there were players, who in their minds, were "mishandled", their play should have overcome that. Taking shots at the head coach and GM for their deficiencies on the ice, exposes what a low level of class existed in some corners of that locker room. These guys have run through coaches in the last few years and not won much. They have no room to talk.
Up until last week, I didn't think that Hextall would be making any big moves over the summer and that, aside from losing someone in the ED, the roster for next season was pretty much set. Now, I don't think that will be the case. There might well be some major moves; ones that could surprise. None of the veterans should consider themselves to be safe here for next year.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

After reading some of the comments made by some of the Flyers players following their exit interviews, I got more than a bit ticked off. This team was a bad team. As bad of a team as we've seen in town over the last twenty-five years and up with the three worst teams in Flyers' history. To me, it would have been best for some of these guys to have just been quiet and left town.
If there were players, who in their minds, were "mishandled", their play should have overcome that. Taking shots at the head coach and GM for their deficiencies on the ice, exposes what a low level of class existed in some corners of that locker room. These guys have run through coaches in the last few years and not won much. They have no room to talk.
Up until last week, I didn't think that Hextall would be making any big moves over the summer and that, aside from losing someone in the ED, the roster for next season was pretty much set. Now, I don't think that will be the case. There might well be some major moves; ones that could surprise. None of the veterans should consider themselves to be safe here for next year.

But what if the reason why we were bad/those players performed poorly BECAUSE they were mishandled?

Your perspective only works if you believe Hextall/Hakstol didn't do this. Otherwise, one could argue they'll just mishandle more players in the future.

Now I'm not saying they did or didn't, but you can't just say Hexy should go scorched Earth on the team because players are saying their feelings (which wasn't a big deal, IMO).

 

[BernieParent]

After reading some of the comments made by some of the Flyers players following their exit interviews, I got more than a bit ticked off. This team was a bad team. As bad of a team as we've seen in town over the last twenty-five years and up with the three worst teams in Flyers' history. To me, it would have been best for some of these guys to have just been quiet and left town.
If there were players, who in their minds, were "mishandled", their play should have overcome that. Taking shots at the head coach and GM for their deficiencies on the ice, exposes what a low level of class existed in some corners of that locker room. These guys have run through coaches in the last few years and not won much. They have no room to talk.
Up until last week, I didn't think that Hextall would be making any big moves over the summer and that, aside from losing someone in the ED, the roster for next season was pretty much set. Now, I don't think that will be the case. There might well be some major moves; ones that could surprise. None of the veterans should consider themselves to be safe here for next year.

I can't disagree with your points. There were some undertones of "Hakstol did me wrong." That being said, I don't see anything -- even from Mason -- that would force Hextall to move anyone. Rather, some meetings with the veterans and Hakstol are in order. Have Hakstol and Hextall sit around the table with Giroux, Simmonds and Bellemare (as the captain and assistants) for a candid give-and-take on the season.

 

[Lindberg]

I can't disagree with your points. There were some undertones of "Hakstol did me wrong." That being said, I don't see anything -- even from Mason -- that would force Hextall to move anyone. Rather, some meetings with the veterans and Hakstol are in order. Have Hakstol and Hextall sit around the table with Giroux, Simmonds and Bellemare (as the captain and assistants) for a candid give-and-take on the season.

Bellemare doesn't really deserve a spot at the table. He's a spare part and the team would be better served if someone who actually important is there i.e. Couturier/Voracek/Schenn. No reason for Hakstol to be there either.

 

[Embiid]

Who is the sports psychologist for the Flyers? He needs to be summarily fired or executed because it has been far too long now that this snowflake team is mentally fragile no matter what players get cycled in here or what coach is at the helm. I'm sick of their post season excuses.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Or the 2010 Blackhawks who...also beat the Flyers in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Well, not platoon during the series, but platooned that season.

They also faced one of, if not THE worst, goaltending performances to ever "grace" the Finals.

 

[Rebels57]

They also faced one of, if not THE worst, goaltending performances to ever "grace" the Finals.

I wonder where that Leighton/Boucher job ranks in the history of the Stanley Cup. It has to be near the bottom. It was AHL goaltending on the biggest stage with a stacked team in front of them.

The Ben Eager wrist-shot from 300 yards away still haunts me..not to mention "the goal that must not be named."

 

[deadhead]

This team has had the same core for five years, and they've had a poor 3rd defensive pairing during that same period. Depth in the front 9, top 4 D and goalie has varied, but the overall level of talent is about the same.

They've gone through three coaches, at some point do you change coaches or players?

At some point you have to ask if the core is good enough.
Or if the core has become complacent.

If Hextall wants to shake things up, this is the offseason to do it before the kids start arriving en mass. Set a new tone in the locker room by showing that no one has a guaranteed job.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What? Only the third pairing has been suspect?


There's an awful anchor on every pair for two years now.

 

[Appleyard]

But over that time they have not had 3 capable top 9 NHL centers at any point. (until the last 20 games of this season)

And the only year they had an ~average NHL defensive group was 2011-12 - at which point they had joke net-minding.


There have been pretty gaping holes on paper every year.

2011-12 was the closest to having a 'contender-esque' roster. But they had 2 top 9 centers and once Pronger went down one D pairing was generally a joke - as they had no-one to carry the 2nd pair. And they had Bryz ******** the bed.

 

[Rebels57]

What? Only the third pairing has been suspect?


There's an awful anchor on every pair for two years now.

Yeah the closest thing we have had to a competent PAIR was Del Zotto - Gudas for the first 3/4 of the 15-16 season.

We didn't have a single competent PAIR in 16-17 thanks to Hakstols insistence at pairing one quality defensemen with one mistake-prone lump of ****.

 

[deadhead]

I said over five years, this year we had 2 1/2 D-men, Provorov, Gudas, and Ghost the last month or two. Most years we had 3-4 D-men. 5-8 top 9 forwards. Goalies were up and down.

That's why Hextall has focused on quantity and much as quality, lack of depth has been a real problem.

Put yourself in Hakstol's shoes, do you pair a competent D-man with a incompetent one, or have one good pair, one pair you can play in spots (whoever you pair with Ghost) and one pair that makes you shield your eyes for 15 minutes a night!

 

[Striiker]

This team has had the same core for five years, and they've had a poor 3rd defensive pairing during that same period. Depth in the front 9, top 4 D and goalie has varied, but the overall level of talent is about the same.

They've gone through three coaches, at some point do you change coaches or players?

At some point you have to ask if the core is good enough.
Or if the core has become complacent.

If Hextall wants to shake things up, this is the offseason to do it before the kids start arriving en mass. Set a new tone in the locker room by showing that no one has a guaranteed job.

Yeah, great question. Obviously the core is the problem, not the fact that the defense is always sub par, goaltending is inconsistent at best, and depth behind the core has been totally nonexistent. That's clearly their fault.



Makes you wonder...

Hakstol has been a coach for 17 years. He's gone through lots of players throughout the years, still no championships.

At some point you have to ask if the coach is good enough.
Or if the coach has become complacent.

If Hextall wants to shake things up, this is the offseason to do it before the kids start arriving en mass. Set a new tone in the locker room by showing that no one has a guaranteed job.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

They also faced one of, if not THE worst, goaltending performances to ever "grace" the Finals.

22 goals scored in 6 games. not enough.

 

[bauer]

We all want to have a young guy in the NHL in an ideal world. But you need to have him as the backup with a starter who can handle 50+ games.

Hence why Neuvirth re-signing is odd. We have no starter AND we block a kid from the backup spot.

I would like to think Hextall has a plan though for the starters role. He must. In no way can I see a Neuvirth/Stolie tandem to start the season.

it's extremely odd. Stolarz should be the backup next year. he was more than solid in what we saw of him this year. the signing makes absolutely no sense unless Hexy expects Neuvirth to be the starter next year. and we all know that won't last long.

we're starting to see some cracks in Hexy's armor. he could do no wrong a year ago but now seems to be making mistakes. blind devotion to Hak, resigning Neuy over Mason, Belle extension, etc.

 

[Embiid]

22 goals scored in 6 games. not enough.

It was sad.....

We had to outscore our own goalie...

 

[Appleyard]

I mean - look that the most common defense each year:

2011-12:

Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Bourdon
Lilja - Meszaros
Grossmann (who subbed in for Lilja once here)
Kubina
Gustafsson

2012-13:

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann - Coburn (for half the season, injured rest)
Gustafsson - Gervais
Meszaros
Lilja
Huskins

2013-14:

Timonen - Coburn
Grossmann - Streit
Meszaros/Gustafsson - Schenn
Gill
MacDonald (paired with Schenn once here)

2014-15:

Grossmann - Streit
Schultz - Coburn/MacDonald
Del Zotto - Schenn
Colaiacovo
Manning

2015-16:

Del Zotto - Gudas
Schultz - Streit
Manning/MacDonald/Medvedev - Gostisbehere
Schenn

2016-17:

Provorov - MacDonald
Streit/Del Zotto - Gudas
Manning - Gostisbehere
Schultz