Flyers Regular Season Postmortem Thread VI

[Beef Invictus]

They didn't make Bob look good when he was there.

Same .905 save percentage that year and this season.
.510 winning % that year, .537 this year.
So Hakstol > Lav?

Hakstol got them to the playoffs last year with a .920 save %
Berube got them to the playoffs with a .912 save % then missed the next season with a .914 save %

Point is they've been a mediocre team for a while, and you can't just blame the goalies, bad goalies - miss playoffs, average goalies, maybe make it, good goalies make the playoffs.

In that case, going forward, there's no reason to retain any of the core if someone makes a good offer that would make this team younger and better a couple years down the road. Because they're not winning much the next two years with the current players.

Bob was still developing and played inconsistently. Miraculously, Mason came in and played at a .944 save percentage and continued to play well behind them the next year and the year after, and for the second half of this year.

If you're seriously trying to imply that Bryzgalov wasn't massively detrimental to the team in the standings I've got no idea how to get through to you.

 

[BillDineen]

Flyers need to find a way to sign Victor Ejdsell

I think he signed for next year in the SHL already.

 

[kelmitchell]

Your posts are "much ado about nothing"

excellent post, very true

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

GDTs get special dispensation. Be mad, say crazy stuff. We're fans. I'd rather it there where I can be tilted with you-- rather than more analytical threads.

This is exactly how I feel too - let the people purge and barf all over those and get it out of their system. It's the 21st century version of sitting around a table in a bar shouting at the TV, with the only difference being that your emotional outbursts are committed to the screen and don't evaporate lol. It's normal enough.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Point is they've been a mediocre team for a while, and you can't just blame the goalies, bad goalies - miss playoffs, average goalies, maybe make it, good goalies make the playoffs.

But this is almost verbatim what you have been doing all season - blaming the goalies.
Except for when you blame the defensemen.
And the times you blame the core.
The only one you have given a pass to is that doofus behind the bench who found his hair style in the mens section of the 1979 JC Penney's catalogue and refuses to change it and stares longingly into the near distance like a moo cow dreaming of fresh grass to add to his cud.

The fact is, it's all of these things contributing to our troubles, and you continuing to isolate one thing or another doesn't make a ton of sense. One thing I do agree with you about, though, is that I don't mind watching the young guys play through their mistakes, whether that's goalies or defensemen or forwards. I don't think the young goalies who are going to matter are very close to being ready though, so we will have to wait for them, but I'm prepared to sit through the growing pains. It's the cost of progress.

 

[Appleyard]

I think he signed for next year in the SHL already.

Yup. For HV71.

But that will likely have an NHL out clause up until ~September.

It is crazy no NHL team have gone after him. Apparently Detroit had interest - but don't know what happened with that.

 

[Striiker]

It's amazing that he can try to be condescending when he so regularly makes blatantly incorrect statements about little obvious things. If you can't even comprehend the little things then you sure as hell shouldn't try to preach to others as if you're enlightened and everyone else is a fool.

Then of course there's also the contradictions, blind excuses for indefensible things, and all different kinds of nonsense that he likes to repeat over and over, even after being proven wrong.

It's honestly insane to read.

 

[deadhead]

My point with the goalies is the rest of the team is average, with good goalies they make the playoffs, with bad goalies they miss - this has been true for FIVE YEARS with THREE different coaches.

Nor have I said gut the team, I've merely pointed out that the "core" simply isn't irreplaceable, they don't "carry" this team - if the best they can do is .500 year in and year out, then they're nothing special.

So Hextall should consider trading anyone but Provorov and the young prospects this offseason. Not a fire sale, just recognition that the status quo isn't worth preserving.

 

[Striiker]

It's the best they can do with this amount of dead weight dragging them down.

They've been put in a position to fail so blaming them for not succeeding is a joke. If they have a solid team around them and they still can't do anything then there's reason for criticism, but thats obviously never been the case at any point in time since this core was put together. Hextall is doing his best to fix it, but it takes time.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I seriously doubt Hextall does much of anything this summer other than patchwork.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lashing out at the team's core for not overcoming bad goaltending, bad defense, and awful bottom six doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Tripod]

I have no issue if a Hextall decides to change the "core" forwards if the deals make sense. IMO, ANY deals need to be to try and line up the new forwards to the young D on the way. It's why I have said before that trading Simmonds makes sense....since his contract ends right when the young D should be settling in nicely.

But in saying that, to IGNORE other issues with the team that contribute to our issues, is dumb. It's death by a thousand cuts:

A certain someone says the 4th line was not an issue this year. WRONG. Having a line that provides NO offense and holds on for dear life defensively can change momentum of a game. Even if they are not scored on, when they finally get the puck, they dump the puck in deep, giving up possession to go change, while the next line deals with having to chase the puck.

We have AMac on our top pairing....really, that should say everything. Every pairing had a **** Dman on it. MDZ being awful was a big blow to us. As Curu once said, when he sliced his wrist, part of his brain leaked out too.

Goaltending...both were awful to start the year giving up an easy goal every game. Mason turned his year around, Neuvirth did not.

3rd line: we had none. We didn't have one that added offence, or one that was good defensively. That changed when Couts got healthy, Flip was added and Weal came up. We became a 3 line team.

Coaching....sigh. To me, a sign of a good coach is one who's team plays better than they should. Except for the 10 game streak, can we say Hak did this? No. Benching Ghost off more than 1-2 games, dumb. Benching Konecny after a 2 point game. Cousins saying no explanation on why he was benched. VDV playing 81 games really sums up all his dumbness.

Now next year, we have:
Flip all year....finally 3 centers worth while.
Adding Lindblom adds another top 9 player.
Weal, if he re-signs....we have all year.
We could enter next year with guys like Weise, Raffl, Read, as only 4th line or scratched players instead of being on our top lines at time. That's a big difference over an entire season.
Then on D adding more youth to replace older, slower guys like Streit, MDZ and Schultz. We just need to hope the kids keep pushing so AMac and Manning are shoved out.
In goal, who the hell knows....time will tell.

I still think Hextall has an unsuspecting move up his sleeve before the expansion draft.....

 

[deadhead]

I'm not lashing out, just pointing out that this isn't the core of a Stanley Cup contender where you make a few tweaks around them and they're back in the race. This is the core of a mediocre team, so there's no reason to fear making a decisive move if the opportunity presents itself.

That is, Hextall just doesn't have that much to lose by making a major move - what, they end up with 83 instead of 88 points? Would we notice?

He has the picks, the cap room and some attractive veteran players for a team on the cusp of contending for a cup. That a situation where a smart GM can find someone who'll overpay. From Hextall's perspective, he's building for 3 years from now when his young prospects will have enough experience to be ready to make a cup run.

Think about the goalie discussion - we can't trust Stolarz? Why? Is Mason going to get us to 100 points? If not, let's feel the pain now and audition young goalies the next three years until someone takes the job. Columbus gambled on Bob, how's that working for 'em?

Yes, we'll have more talent next year, but face it, with the young defensemen and the goalie situation, we're not making a big push, if everything jells we might get hot the second half and sneak into the playoffs.

So now's the time to be bold and build the future.

 

[deadhead]

As far as trading Simmonds, my objection is that this is a soft team, which I think is the real reason they struggled on the road, when you have to dress Manning just to add some cojones, well, you need to upgrade.

Morin will help, but you can't put that on a rookie, and Gudas has carried too much of that load. Losing MDZ will hurt, because that is one quality he did add, losing marshmellows like Streit, Schultz and hopefully MacDonald will help.

So if you trade Simmonds, you might as well go whole hog and trade some of the more "timid" forwards as well and get some young, tough blood - no headhunters please but some big physical forwards who'll keep opposing teams honest when they go after Giroux, Konency and Weal.

 

[Lindberg]

How does being a soft team have anything to do with a terrible road record?

About the only thing that makes any logical sense is Hakstol does a terrible job preparing his team for road games and is dead set on matching players versus certain players.

Interesting stats here though:
http://morehockeystats.com/teams/en
http://morehockeystats.com/teams/en

 

[Tripod]

As far as trading Simmonds, my objection is that this is a soft team, which I think is the real reason they struggled on the road, when you have to dress Manning just to add some cojones, well, you need to upgrade.

Morin will help, but you can't put that on a rookie, and Gudas has carried too much of that load. Losing MDZ will hurt, because that is one quality he did add, losing marshmellows like Streit, Schultz and hopefully MacDonald will help.

So if you trade Simmonds, you might as well go whole hog and trade some of the more "timid" forwards as well and get some young, tough blood - no headhunters please but some big physical forwards who'll keep opposing teams honest when they go after Giroux, Konency and Weal.

Trading Simmonds is ONLY about looking at the future, not the present. Isn't that what you said you wanted?

A decision on Simmonds needs to be made. If we are not contending the next 2 years, and are going younger, why are we going to re-sign a 31 year old Simmonds to a long term deal? You trade him now so that the assess back for him are ready to contribute in 2 years when the young D is ready too.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm not lashing out, just pointing out that this isn't the core of a Stanley Cup contender where you make a few tweaks around them and they're back in the race. This is the core of a mediocre team, so there's no reason to fear making a decisive move if the opportunity presents itself.

That is, Hextall just doesn't have that much to lose by making a major move - what, they end up with 83 instead of 88 points? Would we notice?

He has the picks, the cap room and some attractive veteran players for a team on the cusp of contending for a cup. That a situation where a smart GM can find someone who'll overpay. From Hextall's perspective, he's building for 3 years from now when his young prospects will have enough experience to be ready to make a cup run.

Think about the goalie discussion - we can't trust Stolarz? Why? Is Mason going to get us to 100 points? If not, let's feel the pain now and audition young goalies the next three years until someone takes the job. Columbus gambled on Bob, how's that working for 'em?

Yes, we'll have more talent next year, but face it, with the young defensemen and the goalie situation, we're not making a big push, if everything jells we might get hot the second half and sneak into the playoffs.

So now's the time to be bold and build the future.

A mediocre core doesn't make the playoffs last year. Full-stop, that's a fact. The main problem with this team is forward depth, D, and this year, goaltending as well as a couple injuries to vital players. There have been, are, and will be in the future numerous teams with a core good enough to contend with proper building, but that are undone by lack of depth, injury, coaching, or any other factor; but not because their core group is inherently bad.


BTW, let's see you lay out your vision of this new core. You claim this one isn't good enough, you claim you don't want to make big moves; then you talk about need for big changes. What is it? What plan do you envision?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Unsurprisingly when you sit back on leads & play guys who you think are safe but in reality aren't at all you concede a fair amount of late goals.

 

[tictactoe]

Still hoping Giroux to Montreal for Galchenyuk, 1st and Sergachev. Maybe something else... if we play our cards right. Prepared to take Plekanec back as a part of deal.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Giroux has a big contract with a full NMC coming off a poor season. The dudes not getting traded.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Unsurprisingly when you sit back on leads & play guys who you think are safe but in reality aren't at all you conceded a fair amount of late goals.

This is probably the thing that bothers me the most about Hacksaw, maybe even more than the benchings, and possibly more than the haircut.

 

[deadhead]

BTW, let's see you lay out your vision of this new core. You claim this one isn't good enough, you claim you don't want to make big moves; then you talk about need for big changes. What is it? What plan do you envision?

Sure.

1) build around the young defensive core, it has the chance to be great, if they pan out, you can trade someone (probably Ghost if Sanheim proves to have a similar skill set) for an elite forward down the road. (Can't pay 6 top 4 D-men).

2) build up the center position, we don't have the big fast centers who can match up against the top guys in the league - Couts is solid, but he's not fast, Giroux is quick but lacks size and speed - Rubtsov is 3 years away, Vorobyov is probably bottom six and is more like Couts. We need a top 6 center who has size and speed, and I can see moving Giroux to LW with such a player.

3) better forward balance - too many playmakers, not enough snipers, if you're going to have Giroux, Weal, Konency, as wings you need some power forwards who can muck and shoot to balance them out. Hextall has done that in the draft Kase v Allison and Bunnyman. Schenn provides that at RW, hopefully Lindblom next year. Raffl and Weise can't shoot, V is soft, Read is small and injury prone, Cousins is undersized without great speed or shot. if you trade Simmonds you need to find someone similar to replace him.

See, I got a plan.
This summer, we'll see if I've tapped into Hextall's subconscious

PS: Of course a mediocre core makes the playoffs when the goalies save .920.
A great core makes the playoffs when the goalies save .905.
Mediocre does not mean "bad," it means "middle of the pack."

 

[tictactoe]

Not an impossible move.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

This summer, we'll see if I've tapped into Hextall's subconscious

God help us



Seriously, God.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sure.

1) build around the young defensive core, it has the chance to be great, if they pan out, you can trade someone (probably Ghost if Sanheim proves to have a similar skill set) for an elite forward down the road. (Can't pay 6 top 4 D-men).

2) build up the center position, we don't have the big fast centers who can match up against the top guys in the league - Couts is solid, but he's not fast, Giroux is quick but lacks size and speed - Rubtsov is 3 years away, Vorobyov is probably bottom six and is more like Couts. We need a top 6 center who has size and speed, and I can see moving Giroux to LW with such a player.

3) better forward balance - too many playmakers, not enough snipers, if you're going to have Giroux, Weal, Konency, as wings you need some power forwards who can muck and shoot to balance them out. Hextall has done that in the draft Kase v Allison and Bunnyman. Schenn provides that at RW, hopefully Lindblom next year. Raffl and Weise can't shoot, V is soft, Read is small and injury prone, Cousins is undersized without great speed or shot. if you trade Simmonds you need to find someone similar to replace him.

See, I got a plan.
This summer, we'll see if I've tapped into Hextall's subconscious

PS: Of course a mediocre core makes the playoffs when the goalies save .920.
A great core makes the playoffs when the goalies save .905.
Mediocre does not mean "bad," it means "middle of the pack."

You know this core has done exactly that, right? 13-14, and 11-12.



Please make a list of playoff teams with a .905 save percentage while you're at it; the list will be very short. Very few playoff teams manage to outscore that level of poor play over a full season. You're dismissing it as if it's a minor, easy task.


And your plan appears to be "continue the rebuild." So...why the calls for urgent shakeup?