Confirmed with Link: Flyers acquire Schlemko & Froese from Montreal in exchange for Weise & Folin

[kudymen]

How would you categorize an unathletic defenseman, who has a tendency for ill-advised pinches and low percentages plays in the OZ, provides nothing in the NZ, and chases hits in the DZ?

A Hak favorite.

 

[Striiker]

A Hak favorite.

Solid
Heavy
Reliable

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I would hate for a mod to look down on my opinion by deleting it, might have to smash them in the face if they do.

I agree with your points and rant

But don't poke the proverbial bear. I've seen discipline handed out over less!

 

[Striiker]

I agree with your points and rant

But don't poke the proverbial bear. I've seen discipline handed out over less!

 

[Magua]

How would you categorize an unathletic defenseman, who has a tendency for ill-advised pinches and low percentages plays in the OZ, provides nothing in the NZ, and chases hits in the DZ?

A jock itch player.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Solid
Heavy
Reliable

S - Solid
H - Heavy
I - Intangibles
T - Tough

 

[Rebels57]

Its time like these that I almost wish I didnt have certain people on my ignore list....almost.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Where did I say his value is down? I think his trade value is potentially higher than his future value to the team. Hence, you consider offers.

Well when I read

"He is a core piece. A struggling core piece"

It makes it seem like you think Ghost has been worse this year then compared to the year before, and one can infer that his perceived trade value would reflect that.

Did you think his trade value in the league is as high today as it was this time last year? Do you think his trade value will sink lower then it is today?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Where did I say his value is down? I think his trade value is potentially higher than his future value to the team. Hence, you consider offers.

Actually let's just go with this.

Do you think Ghost is having a bad year this year?

Would having a bad year negatively effect his trade value?

Do you expect this to be a low point in his career or will the next 2 season following this one be at this level of production?

 

[Striiker]

S - Solid
H - Heavy
I - Intangibles
T - Tough

Like

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well when I read

"He is a core piece. A struggling core piece"

It makes it seem like you think Ghost has been worse this year then compared to the year before, and one can infer that his perceived trade value would reflect that.

Did you think his trade value in the league is as high today as it was this time last year? Do you think his trade value will sink lower then it is today?

Well most of this board seems to think his value is as high as ever.

My belief is that his trade value hasn’t dropped much — but it sure could with another year like this. I wouldn’t turn down a good offer if I could get it now.

You seem unwilling to acknowledge that my willingness to trade Ghost is dependent on return. So if his value has depreciated so much you can’t get much for him, then forget it. I’m not advocating Ghost must go at all costs. It’s odd how many can’t wrap their heads around that.

 

[eramosat]

Before we trade Ghost, I would try hiring Kimmo, now. Coach or consultant. Or someone else with an aptitude for teaching NHL level defenceman play, tilting towards "you're responsible for defence, but you can be good at offense too". Flyers are blessed with this type of dee, and expecting more on the way as early as Monday night...so let's coach it up and system it in!

No offense to Kjell. Kimmo lives in/around Philly doesn't he?

 

[Magua]

By Magua’s logic it would be laughably stupid to label Sandis Ozolinsh a niche defenseman.

It's a label meant to minimize him and allow your brain to more easily wrap around the concept of his replaceability and tradability. (I wondered where I've heard that Ozolinsh label before. That's a JXC-ism. He's used it countless times. Ozolinsh was also a top offensive d-man and Cup winner. And Ghost can be and has showed better.)

Elite puck skills, shooting, deception, entry/exit ability, PP QBing, an even larger sample size of him playing with Provorov on one of the best pairs in the league......that's not niche in my book. That's called positive on-ice value. The only thing that matters. Even if he's a "niche" player, it's a "niche" we can't replace at a cost we can't match. No one calls an elite defensive defenseman a niche player, or even an elite offensive winger. It's purposefully negative in connotation and yet another tacit admission you want him gone desperately for reasons no more complex than bias, boredom, and short-sightedness. You'll deny it; we won't buy it. Round and round we go.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Well most of this board seems to think his value is as high as ever.

My belief is that his trade value hasn’t dropped much — but it sure could with another year like this. I wouldn’t turn down a good offer if I could get it now.

You seem unwilling to acknowledge that my willingness to trade Ghost is dependent on return. So if his value has depreciated so much you can’t get much for him, then forget it. I’m not advocating Ghost must go at all costs. It’s odd how many can’t wrap their heads around that.

I understand what your saying. I understand that if you have reason to believe that his current play is the new norm you should move him now as his value will only continue to drop.

I get that you don't want to move him for the sake of moving him, it would need to be for a sufficient return to make it worth it.

I get that you think of all the defenceman on the team you think he has the highest ratio of value in a trade to future value to the team.

But again I have to ask.

Do you believe this is the new norm for Ghost and we can expect similar seasons over the next two years.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Like

I like this

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's a label meant to minimize him and allow your brain to more easily wrap around the concept of his replaceability and tradability. (I wondered where I've heard that Ozolinsh label before. That's a JXC-ism. He's used it countless times. Ozolinsh was also a top offensive d-man and Cup winner. And Ghost can be and has showed better.)

Elite puck skills, shooting, deception, entry/exit ability, PP QBing, an even larger sample size of him playing with Provorov on one of the best pairs in the league......that's not niche in my book. That's called positive on-ice value. The only thing that matters. Even if he's a "niche" player, it's a "niche" we can't replace at a cost we can't match. No one calls an elite defensive defenseman a niche player, or even an elite offensive winger. It's purposefully negative in connotation and yet another tacit admission you want him gone desperately for reasons no more complex than bias, boredom, and short-sightedness. You'll deny it; we won't buy it. Round and round we go.

Great. So tl;dr you went from rolling your eyes at the notion of calling Ghost “niche” to admitting he might be niche in the span of minutes.

I can respect the argument they need Ghost’s niche, even if I think that niche is worth exploring trading. But when you want to mock the notion that Ghost is a niche player by citing his points, come on now.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I understand what your saying. I understand that if you have reason to believe that his current play is the new norm you should move him now as his value will only continue to drop.

I get that you don't want to move him for the sake of moving him, it would need to be for a sufficient return to make it worth it.

I get that you think of all the defenceman on the team you think he has the highest ratio of value in a trade to future value to the team.

But again I have to ask.

Do you believe this is the new norm for Ghost and we can expect similar seasons over the next two years.

I don’t know. If I were sure he’d revert to last season, it’d be harder to trade him. But I don’t know. So I’d like to see the offers. I tend to think the Flyers can get a point man that won’t make their PP much worse than it’s been with Ghost.

 

[Striiker]

It's a label meant to minimize him and allow your brain to more easily wrap around the concept of his replaceability and tradability. (I wondered where I've heard that Ozolinsh label before. That's a JXC-ism. He's used it countless times. Ozolinsh was also a top offensive d-man and Cup winner. And Ghost can be and has showed better.)

Elite puck skills, shooting, deception, entry/exit ability, PP QBing, an even larger sample size of him playing with Provorov on one of the best pairs in the league......that's not niche in my book. That's called positive on-ice value. The only thing that matters. Even if he's a "niche" player, it's a "niche" we can't replace at a cost we can't match. No one calls an elite defensive defenseman a niche player, or even an elite offensive winger. It's purposefully negative in connotation and yet another tacit admission you want him gone desperately for reasons no more complex than bias, boredom, and short-sightedness. You'll deny it; we won't buy it. Round and round we go.

10/10

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I don’t know. If I were sure he’d revert to last season, it’d be harder to trade him. But I don’t know. So I’d like to see the offers. I tend to think the Flyers can get a point man that won’t make their PP much worse than it’s been with Ghost.

If I laid an over under of 45 points for Ghost next year which would you take?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If I laid an over under of 45 points for Ghost next year which would you take?

Are you saying a 45 point defenseman is untradable?

 

[Striiker]

If I laid an over under of 45 points for Ghost next year which would you take?

Put me on record for "over".

(unless he gets completely f***ed by coaching or something)

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Are you saying a 45 point defenseman is untradable?

No not at all. I just want to know if you think he will put up 45+ points. Personally I expect him too and would even expect 50 next year.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No not at all. I just want to know if you think he will put up 45+ points. Personally I expect him too and would even expect 50 next year.

Very possible. Doesn’t change my position of being willing to trade him.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Very possible. Doesn’t change my position of being willing to trade him.

Again, I understand that. Just curious about a yes or no the the 45+ question.