Confirmed with Link: Flyers acquire Schlemko & Froese from Montreal in exchange for Weise & Folin

[Striiker]

There has been a lot of bickering about Ghost, but this is exactly where you should have started your argument.

I don't support trading Ghost unless there is a clear #1 PP QB to replace him. He has his deficiencies in the defensive zone, but there is no better transition defenseman on the Flyers, nor is there anyone that reads the game better from the blueline in the offensive zone.

His footspeed is an issue only if he can't get it back or can't adjust to his current speed. He is struggling this year, but it's hard to write him off as expendable right now.

Well, when there’s this many reasons why it’s a terrible idea to trade him, it’s hard to tell which one to start with.

 

[Johnk0728]

I am hoping they don't trade Gostisbehere. There will be meltdown on this board. Trade Simmonds at the deadline. And play Myers, and do the rest of roster changes during off-season

 

[GKJ]

Just continuing to think about this trade, it's quite the thing how much Hextall had a bunch of people fooled, including me - his firing didn't make sense but every day it goes by it makes more and more sense.

Hextall didn't want to "box out" young players as he put it, but he only sort of held true to that - he would only let them leave after the season - Manning, Filppula, Schultz, Vandevelde among them. But during the season? No way, that's way too much arranging of deck chairs - these veterans earned their place on the team and whatnot, and they're a unit and they stick together and all the other stuff you can dream up to justify them keeping a spot on the team despite having other players in the organization who more earned their opportunity. Patience is a virtue, but it seemed clear that Hextall thought the season was sunk and his philosophy was to punt and try again next summer.

I don't think I've can recall off-hand a situation where the fans were begging management to make moves at the very least among depth players, and then hire a guy who one-by-one has done exactly that. It would be nice if MacDonald left. But in terms of guys who gotta go - Weal, Weise, Lehtera, Folin were the next 4 on the list. And now they're gone. And I don't know what Knight is, but I'm not seeing a spot for him now apart from injuries. It seems that Bailey is the next guy to get a shot.

Fletcher may ultimately bring in his guys and they'll be his guys who are the veteran glue guys, and we'll be annoyed at them, but after 4 years we were still trying to clear out driftwood, only this time it was the guys Hextall brought in and not inherited. They botched the goodwill the firing of Hakstol would've brought them, but this organization hasn't always been one to be subtle, and frankly I think in perception they're already past that with the way Hart has played.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall didn't HAVE the prospects to promote, come on, Cousins, Weal, Leier, et al. weren't improvements over the scrubs on the roster.
It wasn't until this season that enough prospects arrived and even then, they won't really have an impact until next year.
Fletcher has moved out players but hasn't replaced them for the most part, Weise, Lehtera were replaced by Varone and Vorobyev.

Some of this is luck, Rubtsov might being pushing for a spot if he stayed healthy, same with Kase and NAK. If Lyon doesn't get injured in August he might be the starting goalie with Hart still in Allentown. Ditto for Stolarz and his injury last year.

People fixate on their favorite scapegoat, but you have to have quality replacements or you're just shuffling the roster names.

 

[Roy Batty]

at least Weise is gone..

 

[Deadpool8812]

at least Weise is gone..

Let's hope MacDonald follows him out the door

 

[Curufinwe]

Just continuing to think about this trade, it's quite the thing how much Hextall had a bunch of people fooled, including me - his firing didn't make sense but every day it goes by it makes more and more sense.

Hextall didn't want to "box out" young players as he put it, but he only sort of held true to that - he would only let them leave after the season - Manning, Filppula, Schultz, Vandevelde among them. But during the season? No way, that's way too much arranging of deck chairs - these veterans earned their place on the team and whatnot, and they're a unit and they stick together and all the other stuff you can dream up to justify them keeping a spot on the team despite having other players in the organization who more earned their opportunity. Patience is a virtue, but it seemed clear that Hextall thought the season was sunk and his philosophy was to punt and try again next summer.

I don't think I've can recall off-hand a situation where the fans were begging management to make moves at the very least among depth players, and then hire a guy who one-by-one has done exactly that. It would be nice if MacDonald left. But in terms of guys who gotta go - Weal, Weise, Lehtera, Folin were the next 4 on the list. And now they're gone. And I don't know what Knight is, but I'm not seeing a spot for him now apart from injuries. It seems that Bailey is the next guy to get a shot.

Fletcher may ultimately bring in his guys and they'll be his guys who are the veteran glue guys, and we'll be annoyed at them, but after 4 years we were still trying to clear out driftwood, only this time it was the guys Hextall brought in and not inherited. They botched the goodwill the firing of Hakstol would've brought them, but this organization hasn't always been one to be subtle, and frankly I think in perception they're already past that with the way Hart has played.

Not true. Umberger was a healthy scratch for the last two months of his NHL career, and couldn’t be waived due to his NMC.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The end of the 2016-2017 season was a joke. They barely got any young guys in there.

 

[GKJ]

Not true. Umberger was a healthy scratch for the last two months of his NHL career, and couldn’t be waived due to his NMC.

Um? What's not true? Are any of the guys I mentioned other than MacDonald still on the Flyers NHL roster?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I don’t think you can say that without seeing the return.

Just a solid well thought out argument here.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I’m not advocating trading quality for quantity.
I’m advocating being willing to listen to offers for what I think is overrated quality for different types of quality.
And if the offers aren’t good enough, to hold pat.
You seem to think Ghost is untouchable & that making him untouchable is both reasonable & the only reasonable stance. So, yes, we disagree there.

So at its most basic level your argument is you think Ghost is over rated, he won't bounce back to the form of his 1st and 3rd season and we should try to fleece somebody using his perceived value before that value diminishes?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So at its most basic level your argument is you think Ghost is over rated, he won't bounce back to the form of his 1st and 3rd season and we should try to fleece somebody using his perceived value before that value diminishes?

My argument is that I think his importance to the future success of the team is overrated; he plays a niche role; has illustrated inconsistency & is a detriment when not producing; nevertheless probably has the highest trade value on the team; the team needs significant improvement that won’t be made by shuffling fringe players; the Flyers should listen to offers; & he shouldn’t be considered off limits.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

My argument is that I think his importance to the future success of the team is overrated; he plays a niche role; has illustrated inconsistency & is a detriment when not producing; nevertheless probably has the highest trade value on the team; the team needs significant improvement that won’t be made by shuffling fringe players; the Flyers should listen to offers; & he shouldn’t be considered off limits.

I guess I just don't understand your logic that you don't think he is a core peice but you expect him to return core peices.

 

[Striiker]

So at its most basic level your argument is you think Ghost is over rated, he won't bounce back to the form of his 1st and 3rd season and we should try to fleece somebody using his perceived value before that value diminishes?

Players never bounce back.

That's why Giroux is still scoring like he did in 2016-2017.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I guess I just don't understand your logic that you don't think he is a core peice but you expect him to return core peices.

He is a core piece. A struggling core piece, & one I don’t consider essential to their future success. I think he probably has good trade value, & I’d explore it.

 

[Striiker]

This is getting interesting

 

[Magua]

Today I learned a defenseman who ranks 12th in the league in points/games played since he entered the league -- and was 4th in points last season behind Carlson, Klingberg, and Burns; 1st in PP points; and made up half of one of the best top pairs in the league -- is a "niche" player.

 

[Striiker]

Today I learned a defenseman who ranks 12th in the league in points/games played since he entered the league -- and was 4th in points last season behind Carlson, Klingberg, and Burns; 1st in PP points; and made up half of one of the best top pairs in the league -- is a "niche" player.

The fans who like scoring and winning games is a smaller group than you might think.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

He is a core piece. A struggling core piece, & one I don’t consider essential to their future success. I think he probably has good trade value, & I’d explore it.

So you think he is a core peice who's value is down due to his current struggles? Why not allow his value to return to its normal level before exploring trade options? Whether you think he has a future here or not shouldn't we try to get max value in a trade?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Today I learned a defenseman who ranks 12th in the league in points/games played since he entered the league -- and was 4th in points last season behind Carlson, Klingberg, and Burns; 1st in PP points; and made up half of one of the best top pairs in the league -- is a "niche" player.

You mock this while citing one specific part of his game — points (which has been lacking this season). Maybe I’ll quote Alanis Morissette.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

This is getting interesting

 

[Ghosts Beer]

By Magua’s logic it would be laughably stupid to label Sandis Ozolinsh a niche defenseman.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Today I learned a defenseman who ranks 12th in the league in points/games played since he entered the league -- and was 4th in points last season behind Carlson, Klingberg, and Burns; 1st in PP points; and made up half of one of the best top pairs in the league -- is a "niche" player.

How would you categorize an unathletic defenseman, who has a tendency for ill-advised pinches and low percentages plays in the OZ, provides nothing in the NZ, and chases hits in the DZ?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So you think he is a core peice who's value is down due to his current struggles? Why not allow his value to return to its normal level before exploring trade options? Whether you think he has a future here or not shouldn't we try to get max value in a trade?

Where did I say his value is down? I think his trade value is potentially higher than his future value to the team. Hence, you consider offers.

 

[Striiker]