GDT: Flames vs Canucks in Calgary Oct 6/2018 8:00 PM MT ( CBC, SN360, CITY, SNW / Fan960)

SKRusty

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Jan 20, 2016
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I don't get complaining about Ryan's ice time and making claims someone else would he benched for mistakes.

Ryan was 7th in TOI among forwards, the only top 9 forwards with less were Czarnik and Dube. His TOI was probably a little high due to all our PP time. Also, we were waining and our PP was completely ineffective until the poor call on his disallowed goal, but from that moment on our PP started playing with more confidence and a chip on there shoulder.

Where is Tue proof of Peters benching anyone, especially Bennett for mistakes? The 4th line is playing less because we've been behind in games and there has been a ridiculous number of PP opportunities. In those circumstances 4th liners always lose ice time

It is my opinion that Bennett and Janko have looked more dangerous than the Ryan line even from their limited use. Janko does not get manhandled like Ryan and Bennett's game is more polished than Dube's. If I were Peters I would look at trying Bennett Janko and Neal together on the third line (I think with Janko at center Neal would be more effective than he is now.). Keep giving Ryan PP duties to see if they can get him going.
 

viper0220

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
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I don't get complaining about Ryan's ice time and making claims someone else would he benched for mistakes.

Ryan was 7th in TOI among forwards, the only top 9 forwards with less were Czarnik and Dube. His TOI was probably a little high due to all our PP time. Also, we were waining and our PP was completely ineffective until the poor call on his disallowed goal, but from that moment on our PP started playing with more confidence and a chip on there shoulder.

Where is Tue proof of Peters benching anyone, especially Bennett for mistakes? The 4th line is playing less because we've been behind in games and there has been a ridiculous number of PP opportunities. In those circumstances 4th liners always lose ice time


My concern takes into the whole development of Sam Bennett, when I look at Sam Bennett, I see Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, high draft picks that took time to put it all together. Even when Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, were developing, they averaged more ice time than Sam Bennett(I know that every case is different) and because of that ice time Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen were able to learn the game. I think that the Flames wrecked Sam Bennett's development(you don't develop high round picks on the 4th line), give him PP and time on the top lines, see what he's got(if you think he can develop into something keep him, if not trade him, give him a chance somewhere else.)

Why is Ryan getting so much PP time, he has not even hit 40 points, that PP time should be going to Mark Jankowski and Sam Bennett .
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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It is my opinion that Bennett and Janko have looked more dangerous than the Ryan line even from their limited use. Janko does not get manhandled like Ryan and Bennett's game is more polished than Dube's. If I were Peters I would look at trying Bennett Janko and Neal together on the third line (I think with Janko at center Neal would be more effective than he is now.). Keep giving Ryan PP duties to see if they can get him going.
You have to remember its been just two games and they are still trying to build chemistry on the lines. The 4th line may have generated some more dangerous chances, but we have to call a spade a spade here, they never finish them, they have no history of finishing them either. But, that 3rd line also had some good scoring chances, but we were unable to convert, but unlike Bennett & Janko, Neal and Ryan have shown they can produce at a higher level.

Creation of chances is great, but it's not good enough, they need to show they can finish.
 
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SKRusty

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My concern takes into the whole development of Sam Bennett, when I look at Sam Bennett, I see Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, high draft picks that took time to put it all together. Even when Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, were developing, they averaged more ice time than Sam Bennett(I know that every case is different) and because of that ice time Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen were able to learn the game. I think that the Flames wrecked Sam Bennett's development(you don't develop high round picks on the 4th line), give him PP and time on the top lines, see what he's got(if you think he can develop into something keep, if not trade him.)

Why is Ryan getting so much PP time, he has not even hit 40 points, that PP time should be going to Mark Jankowski and Sam Bennett .

For three seasons Bennett has been given the opportunity and to this point he has not produced. He does not deserve PP time right now. Chucky, Johnny and Sean have all developed under this same system very well. Sam's hockey IQ is no where near those players therefore he is not thriving like the others. Sam however still has the opportunity to be a very good winger with great skating and shooting skills.. It is just going to take time for him to figure out his game. He likely will be 25-26 years old before we start seeing the best of Sam. He is playing with more bite in his game this year. Not afraid to mix things up with other players and that will do well for his game.
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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My concern takes into the whole development of Sam Bennett, when I look at Sam Bennett, I see Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, high draft picks that took time to put it all together. Even when Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen, were developing, they averaged more ice time than Sam Bennett(I know that every case is different) and because of that ice time Sean Couturier and Brayden Scheen were able to learn the game. I think that the Flames wrecked Sam Bennett's development(you don't develop high round picks on the 4th line), give him PP and time on the top lines, see what he's got(if you think he can develop into something keep him, if not trade him, give him a chance somewhere else.)

Why is Ryan getting so much PP time, he has not even hit 40 points, that PP time should be going to Mark Jankowski and Sam Bennett .
Ryan has spent less time in the NHL and has out produced him. Bennett needs to do something to earn more playing time. Its time. He people stop begging for him to be gifted ice time based on nothing more than his draft position

Also how can you shit on Ryan first not getting 40, when Bennett has never sniffed 40? Hell without Backlund (who turned Joe Colborne into a 44 point player), Bennett hasn't even sniffed 30 points
 
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SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
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You have to remember its been just two games and they are still trying to build chemistry on the lines. The 4th line may have generated some more dangerous chances, but we have to call a spade a spade here, they never finish them, they have no history of finishing them either. But, that 3rd line also had some good scoring chances, but we were unable to convert, but unlike Bennett & Janko, Neal and Ryan have shown they can produce at a higher level.

Creation of chances is great, but it's not good enough, they need to show they can finish.

I think Neal changes that for the whole line for two reasons. Look what Jagr did for these guys last year... Now imagine a whole season of that veteran presence on the line. Secondly Janko's style of play matches Neals style better.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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Calgary
I’m so excited this team added Lindholm. I’m not sure if he’s going to be as good as Monahan and Tkachuk, but he’s right there IMO and if I had to guess, he’s probably going to get close to 70pts this season. He’s a better Backlund right now. It was great seeing Monahan and Johnny do their thing last night, but Lindy just makes those guys that much better and he’s not a passenger in any sense. I know he was criticized about his finishing ability before coming here, and I think it’s likely all confidence and just playing with good players, but he looks excellent. I am just super impressed by him.

Tkachuk is going to another level this season. I have him as our #2 offensive player behind Gaudreau. He is such a fantastic beast and just a pleasure to watch. His speed is no longer an issue and you can see the game slow down when he has the puck. He’s excellent at controlling the play especially down low and his vision and playmaking skills are just off the charts. He’s also got that hunger and will where he won’t be denied, this kid is the total package, I’m just in awe of the things I see him do and do it right.

I thought Hanifin quietly had a nice game as did Juuso, but Gio stole the show on the backend last night. The guy is a freak of nature. I think anyone who follows the Flames is waiting for this guy to slow down and lose a step, but it just isn’t happening. All around he’s just so good, he is easily our top defender defensively and he’s also pushing the play up the ice and a constant threat with the puck.

Lastly I do want to comment on Bennett as well. I honestly feel really bad for the guy. He’s had a decent 2 games in the time he’s gotten. Out of 60 minutes he’s played 8:47 and 7:01.

There’s 2 thoughts on Bennett: 1. He needs to “earn” his minutes, or 2. He should be “given” minutes to develop his game.

Here’s the thing, all that matters is what the Flames think he is. They didn’t include him in the Hamilton trade so clearly they value him more than they did Ferland, so what do they feel he is? To me that indicates they think he’s potentially a top 6 player. Friedman said the Flames value him highly so they aren’t going to give him away. All of this fine, except for how he’s being managed.

I get that the coach’s job is to win games, but with all due respect to Frolik, Czarnik and Ryan, none of those guys have Bennett’s upside. I said this before, but the time is now for Bennett, he’s not a kid anymore. Give him 14-15 minutes a night for a month or 2 playing with Tkachuk and Backlund and see what the hell we have with him. He’s more than capable of playing the PK and PP and I’d like to see him used in all situations. One of 2 things will happen, he will fail in which case we now know what Bennett is and that’s a bottom 6 player. We would have also showcased him to hopefully get decent value in a trade. The Flames don’t need Bennett to be a bottom 6 player though, we have more than enough of those already. Or on the other side of things, he’s going to find his game and start to break out the way Lindholm is doing before our eyes.

It’s an absolute joke how he’s being managed and he’s not going to be anything more than Lazar was for us playing less than 10 minutes a night. If you think he’s a top 6 player, you need to play him in the top 6. This means being patient with him and letting him make mistakes. It also means encouraging him and giving him the opportunity to play to his potential. At the end of the day, the Flames would be a better team having a 50pt Sam Bennett playing in the top 6 over a 35pt Frolik. Mangiapagne or Lazar can do what Bennett is on pace for this year, it’s not helping anyone. I can’t understand how he’s being handled but I know it’s time for Bennett to sink or swim.
 
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Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,250
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I think Neal changes that for the whole line for two reasons. Look what Jagr did for these guys last year... Now imagine a whole season of that veteran presence on the line. Secondly Janko's style of play matches Neals style better.
Then you're also demoting Dube, and if we do that we might as well send him to Stockton. Personally, I don't think its time to do that. And why would Neal look better with two linemates that have struggled being playmakers when Ryan has been the setup guy for a 30/goal scorer?
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
6,939
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2 games in and we can already see Carolina fans warnings about the golden boy we’re true.

Ryan looks terrible out there yet of coutse he is still gifted PP minutes despite spending his whole career showing he shouldn’t ever get close to the PP.

It would be nice to see him in the PB or Stockton but it appears he has replaced Brouwer as the overpaid UFA that gets way overplayed.
 
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Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,250
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I’m so excited this team added Lindholm. I’m not sure if he’s going to be as good as Monahan and Tkachuk, but he’s right there IMO and if I had to guess, he’s probably going to get close to 70pts this season. He’s a better Backlund right now. It was great seeing Monahan and Johnny do their thing last night, but Lindy just makes those guys that much better and he’s not a passenger in any sense. I know he was criticized about his finishing ability before coming here, and I think it’s likely all confidence and just playing with good players, but he looks excellent. I am just super impressed by him.

Tkachuk is going to another level this season. I have him as our #2 offensive player behind Gaudreau. He is such a fantastic beast and just a pleasure to watch. His speed is no longer an issue and you can see the game slow down when he has the puck. He’s excellent at controlling the play especially down low and his vision and playmaking skills are just off the charts. He’s also got that hunger and will where he won’t be denied, this kid is the total package, I’m just in awe of the things I see him do and do it right.

I thought Hanifin quietly had a nice game as did Juuso, but Gio stole the show on the backend last night. The guy is a freak of nature. I think anyone who follows the Flames is waiting for this guy to slow down and lose a step, but it just isn’t happening. All around he’s just so good, he is easily our top defender defensively and he’s also pushing the play up the ice and a constant threat with the puck.

Lastly I do want to comment on Bennett as well. I honestly feel really bad for the guy. He’s had a decent 2 games in the time he’s gotten. Out of 60 minutes he’s played 8:47 and 7:01.

There’s 2 thoughts on Bennett: 1. He needs to “earn” his minutes, or 2. He should be “given” minutes to develop his game.

Here’s the thing, all that matters is what the Flames think he is. They didn’t include him in the Hamilton trade so clearly they value him more than they did Ferland, so what do they feel he is? To me that indicates they think he’s potentially a top 6 player. Friedman said the Flames value him highly so they aren’t going to give him away. All of this fine, except for how he’s being managed.

I get that the coach’s job is to win games, but with all due respect to Frolik, Czarnik and Ryan, none of those guys have Bennett’s upside. I said this before, but the time is now for Bennett, he’s not a kid anymore. Give him 14-15 minutes a night for a month or 2 playing with Tkachuk and Backlund and see what the hell we have with him. His minutes are a joke. He’s also more than capable of playing the PK and PP and I’d like to see him used in all situations. One of 2 things will happen, he will fail in which case we now know what Bennett is and that’s a bottom 6 player. We would have also showcased him to hopefully get decent value in a trade. The Flames don’t need Bennett to be a bottom 6 player, we have more than enough of those already. Or on the other side of things, he’s going to find his game and start to break out the way Lindholm is doing before our eyes.

It’s an absolute joke how he’s being managed and he’s not going to be anything more than Lazar was for us playing less than 10 minutes a night. If you think he’s a top 6 player, you need to play him in the top 6. This means being patient with him and letting him make mistakes. It also means encouraging him and giving him the opportunity to play to his potential. At the end of the day, the Flames would be a better team having a 50pt Sam Bennett playing in the top 6 over a 35pt Frolik. Mangiapagne or Lazar can do what Bennett is on pace for this year, it’s not helping anyone. I can’t understand how he’s being handled but I know it’s time for Bennett to sink or swim.
Bennett has failed for two years already. Why is this being ignored? He's gotten PP and PK to and gifted 3rd line minutes, but shown zero improvement.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
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Bennett has failed for two years already. Why is this being ignored? He's gotten PP and PK to and gifted 3rd line minutes, but shown zero improvement.

His best season was his rookie year under Hartley, where he played with Backlund. Bennett at this point isn’t a driver who can carry a line, so when he played all year with a rookie C and mostly Hathaway while playing 3rd line minutes, I don’t really see him being set up for success in that situation.

Again for me it comes down to his potential, what do the Flames think he is? If it’s a 4th liner, why the heck didn’t we keep Ferland. Clearly that wasn’t the case and I want to see how Bennett looks getting an opportunity under Peters. WWE, me and you are basically on the same page. I just want to see him get fair shake under this new coach and if he does nothing with it, do whatever you want with him but at least then we know.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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His best season was his rookie year under Hartley, where he played with Backlund. Bennett at this point isn’t a driver who can carry a line, so when he played all year with a rookie C and mostly Hathaway while playing 3rd line minutes, I don’t really see him being set up for success in that situation.

Again for me it comes down to his potential, what do the Flames think he is? If it’s a 4th liner, why the heck didn’t we keep Ferland. Clearly that wasn’t the case and I want to see how Bennett looks getting an opportunity under Peters. WWE, me and you are basically on the same page. I just want to see him get fair shake under this new coach and if he does nothing with it, do whatever you want with him but at least then we know.
Let's stop blaming the f***ing coaches.

He had his best season leaching off Mikael Backlund, the guy who turned Joe Colboirne into a 44 point winger, you know the guy who 2 years later is out of the NHL.

We also don't know for sure Carolina even wanted Bennett over Ferland
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Let's stop blaming the ****ing coaches.

He had his best season leaching off Mikael Backlund, the guy who turned Joe Colboirne into a 44 point winger, you know the guy who 2 years later is out of the NHL.

We also don't know for sure Carolina even wanted Bennett over Ferland

Well Gulutzan was fired for a reason so the criticism is warranted. Gully’s system sucked the life out of alot of guys, ignoring that many players perform better or worse under different coaches is taking away a fundamental aspect of the argument. So it’s absolutely valid to discuss coaching.

Lastly yes it was noted that the Canes wanted Bennett.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,250
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Well Gulutzan was fired for a reason so the criticism is warranted. Gully’s system sucked the life out of alot of guys, ignoring that many players perform better or worse under different coaches is taking away a fundamental aspect of the argument. So it’s absolutely valid to discuss coaching.

Lastly yes it was noted that the Canes wanted Bennett.
We don't know why he was fired, except that there was a lack of team success and he appeared to lose the room. Chances are it wasn't to do with Bennett. If they had faith in Bennett, they wouldn't have added Ryan, Czarnik and Neal to play ahead of Bennett.

Yet no Canes fan has ever heard the rumor of them wanting Bennett... so we don't know how true it is.
 

Rubi

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I think everyone should calm down about Bennett and Janko and Ryan. Let's wait it out until 10 games until we all start having a meltdown about lack of ice tie or too much time. BTW the person who should be most pissed off is Frolik and his 7 minutes. He deserves better.
 

Sparky93

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Dec 30, 2010
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Speaking of Backlund, I wonder if he isn’t 100%. He had a terrible game. I only remember him handling the puck cleanly once or twice and he seems to be sliding across the ice quite a bit.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
17,900
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Calgary
Speaking of Backlund, I wonder if he isn’t 100%. He had a terrible game. I only remember him handling the puck cleanly once or twice and he seems to be sliding across the ice quite a bit.

Did you see how many plays he made that were fanned on or just overpassed slightly? He was super snakebitten and probably should've had at least 2 point after tonight. He looks fine.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Calgary
We don't know why he was fired, except that there was a lack of team success and he appeared to lose the room. Chances are it wasn't to do with Bennett. If they had faith in Bennett, they wouldn't have added Ryan, Czarnik and Neal to play ahead of Bennett.

Yet no Canes fan has ever heard the rumor of them wanting Bennett... so we don't know how true it is.

I’ll try to look to see if I can link something later, but I’m quite certain I heard Friedman say on the Fan that the Canes had asked for Hamilton and the other pieces were either Ferland or Bennett they wanted.

Also I want to be clear that I do not blame Gully for Bennett’s struggles, but I definitely believe that they were a poor match both ways. I also believe most of Bennett’s struggles are all mental and that’s 100% on him. But I feel that’s where a coach comes in, they need to be motivators and pull different strings for different players.
 

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
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Did you see how many plays he made that were fanned on or just overpassed slightly? He was super snakebitten and probably should've had at least 2 point after tonight. He looks fine.
Personally, I didn’t think he looked good at all, either end of the ice. By Backlund standards, at least
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
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Doesn't Ward run the PP? So how is it Peter's fault that Ryan's on it? Also we are 2 games into the season, things will change over time.
 
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Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,444
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Gotta love the Flames board.
We win big, the only real concern in the goaltending and some defensive lapses; but Ryan and Bennett are the main topics :laugh:

If Benny plays like this, he'll work his way up the roster. He's looked good so far this preseason and season, and will definitely get his opportunity up the line up.

Also, why are we bringing the Ryan bitching already? The dude played 2nd unit PP, on a powerplay that deploys 4 forwards. His TOI reflects that he's Calgary's 3rd line centre? What are people expecting here? For him to play 4th line minutes?

I really thought that that Dube - Ryan - Neal line looked fine for most of the evening. They had a couple rough zone times, but overall, not horrid. They also generated some chances that they weren't able to capitalize.

At this stage I have no issues regarding forward deployment. If we play like we've been playing on the attacking end for 80 more games, we'll make the playoffs.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
Apr 22, 2014
19,208
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USA
Just need to quit giving up the grade A scoring chances.

Pettersson is a Flames killer though, so let’s see how we do against a different team.
 

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