Flames 'New' Arena II - 'No it's yours, I insist'

[SKRusty]

People question the impact of the Flames. Let's say the city is on the hook for $300M.

Now I would like to think about this. Yearly approx $80M is spent on players salaries. Likely another $20-25M is spent on Management, coaching, and the front office. Employees at the dome (cleaners, waiters, maintanence and so on) likely add another $10M not to mention jobs created at nearby businesses and contractors. So let's figure it at $100M/year that means in 35 years with no inflation the Flames bring in $3.5 BILLION to the community during that time.

That is $3.5B the city of Calgary would not have in the economy, if the NHL left, being spent on goods in Calgary. The benefits for the City don't end with the money received back from the dome as money also channels down through housing taxes, business taxes, parking fees, and licenses purchased directly to the city.

 

[Rubi]

People question the impact of the Flames. Let's say the city is on the hook for $300M.

Now I would like to think about this. Yearly approx $80M is spent on players salaries. Likely another $20-25M is spent on Management, coaching, and the front office. Employees at the dome (cleaners, waiters, maintanence and so on) likely add another $10M not to mention jobs created at nearby businesses and contractors. So let's figure it at $100M/year that means in 35 years with no inflation the Flames bring in $3.5 BILLION to the community during that time.

That is $3.5B the city of Calgary would not have in the economy, if the NHL left, being spent on goods in Calgary. The benefits for the City don't end with the money received back from the dome as money also channels down through housing taxes, business taxes, parking fees, and licenses purchased directly to the city.

You obviously didn't get the memo.
Everyone knows that millionaire players and billionaire owners only take take take. They never give back to the city and it's citizens.

 

[DirtDiver]

Does anyone know if we have a ticket surcharge/tax like edmonton does??? how do our numbers compare to what they did??

 

[Lunatik]

Does anyone know if we have a ticket surcharge/tax like edmonton does??? how do our numbers compare to what they did??

Yes there will be. That is the 155.1m in estimated money going back to the city

 

[Nanuuk]

I think Council should vote for the deal. It is fair and the City will run out of chances to get it done.

 

[djpatm]

So they're delaying the vote? So pointless.

What exactly do people expect to happen in the extra time that will impact the decision? Everyone has already made up their mind. Just vote.

 

[Rangediddy]

To me, a state-of-the-art, world class arena facility is needed in a city like Calgary even if it has a slightly negative return on investment. As mentioned before, concerts, shows, conventions, non-hockey sporting events, etc. just make Calgary a better city. It even looks like this deal has a 1.00-2.50% rate of return on the investment dollars alone, so with all the un-measurable effects of proceeding (jobs created, business tax revenue, etc.), this should be a no-brainer for council to approve.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Yeah if they are saying with inflation that we lose 43 million, that’s barely over a million a year in a city of about 1.2 million. That’s like $1 a year per person. I think we can afford it...

Sometimes you have to pay a little to have nice things ie concert acts. How much is one tank of gas worth to go see an act in Edmonton? More then the cost that theoretically each citizen will pay for this arena.

 

[crackdown44]

Yeah if they are saying with inflation that we lose 43 million, that’s barely over a million a year in a city of about 1.2 million. That’s like $1 a year per person. I think we can afford it...

Sometimes you have to pay a little to have nice things ie concert acts. How much is one tank of gas worth to go see an act in Edmonton? More then the cost that theoretically each citizen will pay for this arena.

Not to mention the psychological damage that comes with having to be in the city of Edmonton

 

[super6646]

Not to mention the psychological damage that comes with having to be in the city of Edmonton

I’d die if I had to spend the winter in that frozen tundra.

 

[Fig]

Yeah if they are saying with inflation that we lose 43 million, that’s barely over a million a year in a city of about 1.2 million. That’s like $1 a year per person. I think we can afford it...

Sometimes you have to pay a little to have nice things ie concert acts. How much is one tank of gas worth to go see an act in Edmonton? More then the cost that theoretically each citizen will pay for this arena.

Yeah... but the Edmontonians pay for that venue and the costs for the QEII maintenance is shared by everyone...

 

[SmellOfVictory]

People question the impact of the Flames. Let's say the city is on the hook for $300M.

Now I would like to think about this. Yearly approx $80M is spent on players salaries. Likely another $20-25M is spent on Management, coaching, and the front office. Employees at the dome (cleaners, waiters, maintanence and so on) likely add another $10M not to mention jobs created at nearby businesses and contractors. So let's figure it at $100M/year that means in 35 years with no inflation the Flames bring in $3.5 BILLION to the community during that time.

That is $3.5B the city of Calgary would not have in the economy, if the NHL left, being spent on goods in Calgary. The benefits for the City don't end with the money received back from the dome as money also channels down through housing taxes, business taxes, parking fees, and licenses purchased directly to the city.

You think, if the Flames weren't in Calgary, people would just not spend their money on something else in the city? People want to be entertained, and if one form of entertainment is gone, they'll find a replacement.

 

[Lunatik]

You think, if the Flames weren't in Calgary, people would just not spend their money on something else in the city? People want to be entertained, and if one form of entertainment is gone, they'll find a replacement.

He's talking about the money the Players and other staff that would not be in Calgary if not for the Flames spend in the city.

And to your point, some of that entertainment money would still be spent in Calgary, but just as much of it would go to purchasing shit on Amazon and other online retailers.

If they move you also lose tourism money. If I come to Calgary for a game, I'll generally make a weekend of it and I'm spending $500-800 on just tickets, hotel and meals and I know I'm not the only one that does this. For concert I have friends pile in vehicles like they are clown cars to go to Calgary or Edmonton.

 

[SKRusty]

You think, if the Flames weren't in Calgary, people would just not spend their money on something else in the city? People want to be entertained, and if one form of entertainment is gone, they'll find a replacement.

There are 500-1000 people employed by CSEC living in Calgary that would not be there if the Flames left (The discrepancy in the number is if the Flames leave the Hitmen, the Roughnecks, and the Stampeders future would be in jeopardy as well). Lets say the average tax bill for those people for their houses is $4000/house that is between $2M and $4M in lost taxes per year. Over 35 years with no inflation that is another $75M- $150M in just property taxes from these franchises being moved.

That does not include the 2000+ full and part time jobs affected. These jobs include janitorial, parking attendants, administration staff, EMS personnel , maintenance, waiters, ushers, security, and tenant employees for the Dome, and McMahon stadium. Now mix in the revenue for local hotels, restaurants and airlines for visiting teams. There are 41 regular season games with a minimum of 35 travelling players and staff. At $2000 per person that is $70,000 per game brought into the city for a total of $2.87M a year or $100.5M in 35 years of lost revenue for restaurants and hotels.

Out of all of these numbers I still have not brought in how much the players and staff spend in Calgary on cars, houses, contractors, dining, golfing or groceries. How much do these people spend on entertainment?

Now how many millions of dollars do the Flames, Stampeders, Hitmen and Roughnecks donate to charities? Now how much do the players generate on their own?

If an actuary actually sat down and did the calculations with inflation factored in the community would lose $18B-24B in 35 years from the loss of these sports franchises. The investment from the city ends up being less than 1.2% with the Saddledome demolition factored in.

The sad part in all this bean counting is that the city will likely recoup every penny before the 35 years is finished. Furthermore the city will likely end up making a small profit. Anything above break even is a massive win for the city.

 

[Nanuuk]

People forget that the Flames ownership could spend their 275M elsewhere to earn a better return. They are spending it on public infrastructure where the City will be owners. They are committing their business enterprise to be in the city for the next 35 years. They are increasing their donations to amateur sports. I sincerely hope this proposal is accepted.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

There are 500-1000 people employed by CSEC living in Calgary that would not be there if the Flames left (The discrepancy in the number is if the Flames leave the Hitmen, the Roughnecks, and the Stampeders future would be in jeopardy as well). Lets say the average tax bill for those people for their houses is $4000/house that is between $2M and $4M in lost taxes per year. Over 35 years with no inflation that is another $75M- $150M in just property taxes from these franchises being moved.

That does not include the 2000+ full and part time jobs affected. These jobs include janitorial, parking attendants, administration staff, EMS personnel , maintenance, waiters, ushers, security, and tenant employees for the Dome, and McMahon stadium. Now mix in the revenue for local hotels, restaurants and airlines for visiting teams. There are 41 regular season games with a minimum of 35 travelling players and staff. At $2000 per person that is $70,000 per game brought into the city for a total of $2.87M a year or $100.5M in 35 years of lost revenue for restaurants and hotels.

Out of all of these numbers I still have not brought in how much the players and staff spend in Calgary on cars, houses, contractors, dining, golfing or groceries. How much do these people spend on entertainment?

Now how many millions of dollars do the Flames, Stampeders, Hitmen and Roughnecks donate to charities? Now how much do the players generate on their own?

If an actuary actually sat down and did the calculations with inflation factored in the community would lose $18B-24B in 35 years from the loss of these sports franchises. The investment from the city ends up being less than 1.2% with the Saddledome demolition factored in.

The sad part in all this bean counting is that the city will likely recoup every penny before the 35 years is finished. Furthermore the city will likely end up making a small profit. Anything above break even is a massive win for the city.

If the Flames were to leave, we'd see another wave of bar/restaurant closures to boot. The whole development of the area around the arena alone should be enough to get this approved, as the condos, bars and new shops are all added property taxes. Also, to have the ability to attract world class conventions (new BMO will be a class 1? or whatever contention center, which Canada only has like 1 or 2) and to attract all the premier concerts.. Calgary will have a whole new opportunity for tourism.

The timing sucks due to the $60mil cuts, but the reality is.. City of Calgary employee wages are a whole other debate as that has got out of control and it should've been middle management getting the cuts (the third or 4th layer of useless bureaucracy) over transit, fire and police, but the arena will make the investment back just from the spill out and jobs it will provide. Also, the 2 or 3 games I go to a year.. I would defs not be using the money to do other stuff in Calgary and would just put that toward travel.

 

[DirtDiver]

Yes there will be. That is the 155.1m in estimated money going back to the city

I dont know what you mean?? I was asking if we will have the extra tax on tickets sold only. Like edmonton does. They pay an extra charge per ticket that goes to pay for the new arena. That is on top of everything else that happened like the raise in prices for tickets and vendor use. I just looked it up and they pay 9.5 percent last season that must cover 125 million to the city over a 35 year term.

 

[Fig]

I dont know what you mean?? I was asking if we will have the extra tax on tickets sold only. Like edmonton does. They pay an extra charge per ticket that goes to pay for the new arena. That is on top of everything else that happened like the raise in prices for tickets and vendor use. I just looked it up and they pay 9.5 percent last season that must cover 125 million to the city over a 35 year term.

There is an estimated 155 million that is specifically an extra tax on tickets over the 35 year term which was on the infographic. It was mentioned that by specifically stipulating it this way, it is not part of the profit sharing with the team and is specifically towards the obligations owed to the city of Calgary.

 

[DirtDiver]

There is an estimated 155 million that is specifically an extra tax on tickets over the 35 year term which was on the infographic. It was mentioned that by specifically stipulating it this way, it is not part of the profit sharing with the team and is specifically towards the obligations owed to the city of Calgary.

Lol thanks for putting that as politely as you could cause i would have told myself to open my eyes you idiot and look again. Thanks I just didnt understand his post when i read it.

I think that this ticket tax is a bunch of bs that we have to pay for. Now i need to look at the info graph again lol.

 

[Lunatik]

Lol thanks for putting that as politely as you could cause i would have told myself to open my eyes you idiot and look again. Thanks I just didnt understand his post when i read it.

I think that this ticket tax is a bunch of bs that we have to pay for. Now i need to look at the info graph again lol.

It's either a ticket tax or a tax hike. Makes more sense to ding the users of the facility to me

 

[DirtDiver]

ok I am reading the infograph and read that part about the 155.1 mill in facility fees. Now is this and extra tax on tickets or part of the ticket price?? or is that just a better way for them to say ticket tax??


Also does the edmonton arena have an infograph like we do that i could look? I tried but failed to find anything useful

 

[Rangediddy]

ok I am reading the infograph and read that part about the 155.1 mill in facility fees. Now is this and extra tax on tickets or part of the ticket price?? or is that just a better way for them to say ticket tax??


Also does the edmonton arena have an infograph like we do that i could look? I tried but failed to find anything useful

No infographic, but this is from Wikipedia:

The arena was funded by the following sources:[21]

• $279 million from the Community Revitalization Levy and other incremental revenues (increased parking revenue, reallocation of existing subsidy paid to Northlands and new taxes from business in the arena) - (City of Edmonton)
• $125 million from ticket surcharge on all events in the new arena - (Ticket tax)
• $137.81 million from lease revenue for the Arena - (Oilers rent, ie: Katz)
• $23.68 million in cash from Edmonton Arena Corporation - (Katz)
• $25 million from other government sources - (I believe this is Alberta government funding)

 

[DirtDiver]

No infographic, but this is from Wikipedia:

The arena was funded by the following sources:[21]

• $279 million from the Community Revitalization Levy and other incremental revenues (increased parking revenue, reallocation of existing subsidy paid to Northlands and new taxes from business in the arena) - (City of Edmonton)
• $125 million from ticket surcharge on all events in the new arena - (Ticket tax)
• $137.81 million from lease revenue for the Arena - (Oilers rent, ie: Katz)
• $23.68 million in cash from Edmonton Arena Corporation - (Katz)
• $25 million from other government sources - (I believe this is Alberta government funding)

cool thanks. I just want to say katz raped them up north. what a bunch of idiots that live up there.

 

[djpatm]

You think, if the Flames weren't in Calgary, people would just not spend their money on something else in the city? People want to be entertained, and if one form of entertainment is gone, they'll find a replacement.

You think that season ticket holders will spend their extra 2-10K on 1000 more dinners and movie tickets? That money will leave the city in the form of Vacations and purchases. Calgary has no alternative to the Flames. There's nothing else to do within city limits, especially without an arena.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Looks like we have a new home.