Friedman: Flames interested in Zuccarello

[viper0220]

Why?

I hate trading first round picks in the future(look at the Senators) and Zuccarello is old to be spending a first round pick on.

 

[Lunatik]

I hate trading first round picks in the future(look at the Senators) and Zuccarello is old to be spending a first round pick on.

the sens were already a bad team when they made that trade though

and you need to quit with this 31 is too old bullshit

 

[Kupo]

I agree, it's supply and demand. It just so happens that this year there is a lot of supply. I'd be very upset if the Flames gave up their first and didn't go after one of the bigger targets, or at the very least a younger player than Zucc that will likely stick around with the Flames. Also, how many teams are willing to give up their 1sts and outbid the Flames?

In terms of upcoming UFAs, there's also Stone, Duchene, Panarin, Simmonds, Eberle, Ferland, Hayes, Silfverberg, Nyquist, and a slew of other players the Flames could target that aren't upcoming UFAs. Zucc may be better than some of the players on the list, but the difference to the Flames, who are looking at acquiring their 5th best forward (max) is pretty marginal. If it doesn't mean giving up the 1st, I'd prefer the slightly worse forward option. The Flames are either going big (which I doubt), and getting a guy like Stone, or they are looking for a 3rd liner and 2nd PP guy. In which case, they may be better off with a Boyle type than a Zucc type.

The thing with guys like Stone, Panarin, and Duchene, is they will cost a lot more than a late 1st, so the options shrink unless Calgary wants to go nuts this deadline.

 

[Shootertooter]

Brian Boyle just fetched a 2nd, Zuccarello is getting either a first or a 2nd with a significant prospect.

 

[Lunatik]

Brian Boyle just fetched a 2nd, Zuccarello is getting either a first or a 2nd with a significant prospect.

that's not always how the market works though, by that logic Kane would have gotten more than Stastny

 

[Shootertooter]

that's not always how the market works though, by that logic Kane would have gotten more than Stastny

Just reinforces what I have thought all along regarding Zuccarello.

I think Kane's baggage played a part in the return that ultimately was pretty much the same as Stats....a 1st upon re signing(he did), 4th and prospect.....compared to ...1st, 4th, Eric Foley.

 

[5cotland]

It's crazy how many people overvalue a 32 y/o UFA rental with good but not franchise level production history.

I am going to revisit this post when the trade is made. We will see if I overvalued him or if he goes for something similar to what I said.

 

[Lion Hound]

Big bodied forward always have a high worth. With that said, wasn't Boyle was just playing on Jerseys 4th line?

Would assume this helps Zucc's value as a rental.

 

[Fitzy]

Brian Boyle just fetched a 2nd, Zuccarello is getting either a first or a 2nd with a significant prospect.

Maybe, maybe not. Boyle has the qualities that coaches love in a playoff center.

Look at what Vanek got last year. Almost nothing. I don't think Boyle is in any way a benchmark for a playmaking winger.

 

[viper0220]

the sens were already a bad team when they made that trade though

and you need to quit with this 31 is too old bull****

The Sens were one year removed from having a deep Playoff run, so they weren't exactly a bad team. Over the last 2-3 seasons for the Flames, 30 year old+(other than Giordanoand maybe Frolik), have not exactly worked out.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Already a thread on this.
I think it's beaten to death.

Flames won't use a first rounder for Zucc, Rangers fans don't want to move him without one.

I still don't see many teams lining up to spend firsts for Zucc. Not when a first can get you a good player with term.

No, we will move him for a 2nd, but we will want one of your better prospects as well.

 

[Lunatik]

Just reinforces what I have thought all along regarding Zuccarello.

I think Kane's baggage played a part in the return that ultimately was pretty much the same as Stats....a 1st upon re signing(he did), 4th and prospect.....compared to ...1st, 4th, Eric Foley.

Centers also go from there a premium, thats why Stastny got more before Kane re-signed. Take Boyle for example, if he wasn't a C, he wiulwoul have gotten a 2nd

 

[blankall]

The thing with guys like Stone, Panarin, and Duchene, is they will cost a lot more than a late 1st, so the options shrink unless Calgary wants to go nuts this deadline.

If the Flames are giving up the 1st, I'd rather have them add and get something big, than just get a guy who will be 32 at the start of next season, that they probably are not looking to re-sign. Although, giving up guys like Kylington, Anderson, and Valimaki is a no go for a rental, if they have a plan in place to make the cap work, I'd be fine with 1st + one of those big d prospects for a guy like Panarin, Stone, or Duchene. Those are entirely different classes of players.

Calgary's cap situation, however, will likely shut down any kind of play for the bigger FAs.

If Calgary were to give up a 1st for Zucc, I'd be very upset. Zucc would not play in in our top 6 and likely walk.

 

[blankall]

Brian Boyle just fetched a 2nd, Zuccarello is getting either a first or a 2nd with a significant prospect.

I'd don't get why people think the Boyle trade sets the tone for all other trades. Boyle must have been a guy that Nashville really wanted, hence why the trade went down so early. Boyle brings a very specific skill set. He's a massive body and a centre. He was putting up solid points from the bottom six in NJ. All of those things are highly valued for playoff runs.

There are only so many teams willing to give up a 1st. The gap between a 2nd and a 1st is also huge. Overpaying for a guy and giving up a 2nd, when he's only worth a 3rd+ is not that big of deal. Moving up to a 1st is.

 

[King In The North]

I'm sure someone could give the Rags a first for Zuccs. Agreed he's pretty underrated.

Just not sold that Tre is willing to give up more draft picks again. He's spent a lot over the past couple of years.

 

[Kupo]

If the Flames are giving up the 1st, I'd rather have them add and get something big, than just get a guy who will be 32 at the start of next season, that they probably are not looking to re-sign. Although, giving up guys like Kylington, Anderson, and Valimaki is a no go for a rental, if they have a plan in place to make the cap work, I'd be fine with 1st + one of those big d prospects for a guy like Panarin, Stone, or Duchene. Those are entirely different classes of players.

Calgary's cap situation, however, will likely shut down any kind of play for the bigger FAs.

If Calgary were to give up a 1st for Zucc, I'd be very upset. Zucc would not play in in our top 6 and likely walk.

Zucc would be a definite upgrade over Frolik as your 2RW.

 

[blankall]

Zucc would be a definite upgrade over Frolik as your 2RW.

Frolik is horribly underrated, and he has chemistry with his line. Zucc is putting up far more points in NY right now, but on the Flames his ice time will be scaled back dramatically. Zucc on the 2nd line of the Flames would go from getting PP1 and about 20 minutes/night to being on a shutdown line with 15ish minutes a night (which is what Frolik is getting). It's not as simple as saying Zucc gets X amount of points on the Rangers, so replace Frolik and the Flames get X more points.

It's not a definite upgrade, and I'm not sure the coaching staff would disrupt the 3M line, who are a premiere shut down line in the league.

Even if Zucc does replace Frolik, we're looking at an upgrade on #6 forward for a 1st rounder...that's poor asset management.

I'd much rather see the Flames upgrade the 3rd line C, than push Frolik back into the bottom 6.

 

[Joey Bones]

I agree with everything that comes after your 1st sentence, he's a great player but the one factor that will potentially inhibit him getting a 1st is sheer supply and demand. Right now there are a ton of great players being shopped around with high asking prices, and fewer teams looking to add that have a 1st.

I could understand that, but if that were the case, I think NYR is better off resigning him....

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Maybe, maybe not. Boyle has the qualities that coaches love in a playoff center.

Look at what Vanek got last year. Almost nothing. I don't think Boyle is in any way a benchmark for a playmaking winger.

To be fair, Vanek getting practically nothing at the trade deadline is one of the laws of the universe.

I think Zuccarello will get more than Boyle did but I agree that you can’t just compare them laterally based on their effectiveness.

 

[DFF]

Frolik is horribly underrated, and he has chemistry with his line. Zucc is putting up far more points in NY right now, but on the Flames his ice time will be scaled back dramatically. Zucc on the 2nd line of the Flames would go from getting PP1 and about 20 minutes/night to being on a shutdown line with 15ish minutes a night (which is what Frolik is getting). It's not as simple as saying Zucc gets X amount of points on the Rangers, so replace Frolik and the Flames get X more points.

It's not a definite upgrade, and I'm not sure the coaching staff would disrupt the 3M line, who are a premiere shut down line in the league.

Even if Zucc does replace Frolik, we're looking at an upgrade on #6 forward for a 1st rounder...that's poor asset management.

I'd much rather see the Flames upgrade the 3rd line C, than push Frolik back into the bottom 6.

I disagree. Despite what his agent says, Frolik is not a good 2nd liner. Zuch is definitely better than him

Frolik is a decent player and can play on the 2nd line but that doesnt make him a good 2nd liner. His scoring is mostly accidental.

 

[Lunatik]

I disagree. Despite what his agent says, Frolik is not a good 2nd liner. Zuch is definitely better than him

Frolik is a decent player and can play on the 2nd line but that doesnt make him a good 2nd liner. His scoring is mostly accidental.

Consistent half a point per game since leaving Chicago, but it's "accidental"... That is among the worst things ever said on here

 

[DFF]

Consistent half a point per game since leaving Chicago, but it's "accidental"... That is among the worst things ever said on here

yeah 25 pts on the 2nd line last year and a little bit better this year when scoring is way up....That's pretty good for a 2nd liner but whatver.

BTW, if you want to go back far enough Milan Lucic was a 50 pt player after he left Boston lol

 

[Lunatik]

yeah 25 pts on the 2nd line last year and a little bit better this year when scoring is way up....That's pretty good for a 2nd liner but whatver.

BTW, if you want to go back far enough Milan Lucic was a 50 pt player after he left Boston lol

Yeah cherry pick the one season where he had his face broken, pretty typical of you

 

[blankall]

I disagree. Despite what his agent says, Frolik is not a good 2nd liner. Zuch is definitely better than him

Frolik is a decent player and can play on the 2nd line but that doesnt make him a good 2nd liner. His scoring is mostly accidental.

Think what you want. I don't think the upgrade rental is worth a 1st.

The Flames should acquire a 1b goalie and a bruising #3 centre. Zucc is neither.

 

[bl02]

guy is putting up points pretty much every game now. Looks like a completely different player than he was at beginning of the year. Whoever gets him (hopefully the west) i will be rooting hard for them.