Friedman: Flames interested in Zuccarello

[blankall]

this^.
and remember, lots of bidders with a 1st available.


no, there has to be a step up with a competitive bid
that is a 1st +
the better the 1st and the better the +, the better your chances of being successful bid

the only thing you can do
is throw in a sweetener of some kind
if a trading partner took Smith, for example, that would go a large way vs other compensation
now I understand you already have a glut at D so that is not an easy fit for you, but that is an example

Smith's contract is expiring... It's really not all that urgent to move it, and not adding extra assets. Even if the Flames acquire another goalie, they may want to keep him in the organization just in case.

 

[bernmeister]

Smith's contract is expiring... It's really not all that urgent to move it, and not adding extra assets. Even if the Flames acquire another goalie, they may want to keep him in the organization just in case.

Sorry I was not clearer.
I meant not acquiring your smith
I meant finding a new home for our b smtih

 

[Lunatik]

Sorry I was not clearer.
I meant not acquiring your smith
I meant finding a new home for our b smtih

No one is taking Smith, stop trying to peddle him off. No one is taking that trainwreck of a contract

 

[King In The North]

I can't imagine Flames are willing to give up their 1st unconditionally. We just had a draft year with no top picks.

 

[blankall]

Sorry I was not clearer.
I meant not acquiring your smith
I meant finding a new home for our b smtih

The Flames have big cap problems coming up. Taking on any cap dumps makes them a much worse team.

I also think you have sorely underestimated the cost of unloading a contract like Smith.

I just don't see Calgary jumping at any FA. If they do buy, it'll hopefully be a goalie. Otherwise they'll enter the process later on, after the teams willing to give up firsts do.

 

[Shootertooter]

No one is taking Smith, stop trying to peddle him off. No one is taking that trainwreck of a contract

Agreed.
Adding B Smith to a Zuccarello trade negates any return for Zuccarello.

 

[Lunatik]

Agreed.
Adding B Smith to a Zuccarello trade negates any return for Zuccarello.

No kidding, it'd be such a waste, especially since you guys won't need the cap space. It's such a terrible and counterproductive idea.

 

[JCRangers81]

Brian Boyle getting a 2 from Preds... no way Zucc moves for less than a 1.

 

[Shootertooter]

No kidding, it'd be such a waste, especially since you guys won't need the cap space. It's such a terrible and counterproductive idea.

Cap is not an issue, if it was, NY could buy out Staal in his last season and/or bury Smith in Hartford.
Neither of those guys is movable at this point. Staal NMC/ Smith hot garbage contract.

The Rangers might not do anything about those two guys......I don't think they need to make cap room at this point.
Not sure going after Stone or Panarin is a reality, I think it counters their rebuild.

 

[IceNeophyte]

It is crazy the amount of people who undervalue Zucc. A consistent 50-60+ top 6 winger but he is not worth a 1st? OK then.

Rangers will get a 1st+ so if Flames dont want to stump up a 1st rounder or top prospect then they wont get him.

It's crazy how many people overvalue a 32 y/o UFA rental with good but not franchise level production history.

 

[Dijock94]

It's crazy how many people overvalue a 32 y/o UFA rental with good but not franchise level production history.

How could Zuccarello’s value not be higher than Boyle’s?

 

[IceNeophyte]

How could Zuccarello’s value not be higher than Boyle’s?

NSH overpaid, imo. They're grasping at straws to try to keep up with the peg.

 

[Dijock94]

NSH overpaid, imo. They're grasping at straws to try to keep up with the peg.

Yea I disagree, I feel like people expect to rent players on the cheap every year and then the deadline comes and the cost turns out much higher. Look at last year Grabner did a 2nd and a solid prospect. Zucc is better than both of these guys by a good amount. Hell, he is better than Nash was last year and look at what he got at the deadline.

 

[Kupo]

It's crazy how many people overvalue a 32 y/o UFA rental with good but not franchise level production history.

It's crazy how many people here undervalue a 32 y/o UFA rental with good but not franchise level production history.

Nash was moved for a 1st + last season. Grabner, who's half the talent Zucc is, was moved for a 2nd + a quality prospect in Rykov. Boyle was just moved for a 2nd. There go 3 pending free agents who are not as good as Zucc.

Are we overvaluing him? Or are you undervaluing him?

 

[Kupo]

NSH overpaid, imo. They're grasping at straws to try to keep up with the peg.

Teams usually overpay when they're bidding against other teams. That's how that goes. That's why a 4th liner like Gaustad fetched a 1st. That's why a 3rd liner like Hanzal got a 1st and 2nd in 2017. When you're bidding against other teams, the price always goes up. Look at free agency every year. Dumb contract after dumb contract.

GM's don't operate the way we armchair GM's want. They value production and performance more than futures. The main thing most posters here on HF want is as many 1st round picks and prospects as possible.

 

[DCDM]

I've said it in other threads, I think he'll go for a beefed up "Kane deal". My suggestion is:

To New York Rangers:
- Conditional Pick(s) in 2020 (1st if he re-signs, 2nd & 3rd if he doesn't)
- 1 of Mangiapane/Gillies/Nielsen
To Calgary Flames:
- Mats Zuccarello

I know some Rangers fans dislike it, but frankly I am not too fond of it myself. Which is why I feel it is probably pretty fair.

I'd be down for something like this. Good offer IMO.

 

[blankall]

How could Zuccarello’s value not be higher than Boyle’s?

The jump between 2nd rounder and 1st rounder is pretty large. Late 2nd round picks have a like a very slim chance of ever becoming impact NHLers. The odds for late 1st round picks is much higher. Boyle went for a 2nd straight across. Zucc will likely go for more, but that doesn't guarantee a 1st. For example, could be 2nd plus B prospect.

Also, most people seem to agree that the 2nd was an overpayment.

I also think Boyle is a pretty solid pickup for a bottom 6. He's a huge body that puts up points. He's totally capable of putting up .3-.4 from the bottom six. Contrary to the expectations of many HFers, .3 PPG is very solid from the bottom six.

 

[Moskau]

Brian Boyle getting a 2 from Preds... no way Zucc moves for less than a 1.

It hasn't worked like this for the last 5 or 6 trade deadlines. Very few 1st round picks have changed teams at the deadline for players without term over the last few years. Guys like Duchene or Stone will likely return a 1st but after that some very good players could be had for a 2nd. History has shown that teams that sell off players 4-6 weeks prior to the trade deadline get more value than teams that wait until the day of. There are going to be players who are far superior to Boyle who also return a 2nd or even a 3rd just because their GMs wait until the 11th hour and get burned because of it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

NSH overpaid, imo. They're grasping at straws to try to keep up with the peg.

Considering that Boyle was traded for a 2nd rounder not too long ago, don't really see the argument here. Pretty standard rental price for a 3C.

 

[nyrage]

I think people tend to over/under value him as a player based on people's expected trade cost. Cost aside, he would be a great addition to Calgary or any other playoff team.

 

[viper0220]

I've said it in other threads, I think he'll go for a beefed up "Kane deal". My suggestion is:

To New York Rangers:
- Conditional Pick(s) in 2020 (1st if he re-signs, 2nd & 3rd if he doesn't)
- 1 of Mangiapane/Gillies/Nielsen
To Calgary Flames:
- Mats Zuccarello

I know some Rangers fans dislike it, but frankly I am not too fond of it myself. Which is why I feel it is probably pretty fair.

No thanks, unless that 1st is protected, this is a horrible deal for the Flames.

 

[DCDM]

No thanks, unless that 1st is protected, this is a horrible deal for the Flames.

Why?

 

[TGWL]

How could Zuccarello’s value not be higher than Boyle’s?

I don't think it's about value not being as high. I think it's more about Nashville not wanting to part with the first round pick, so they rather spend a lesser asset and get a lesser valued player. So while the value for Zucc might be a first, I can see it dropping after teams continue to go after players in a tier below him rather than spending the first round pick. At that point, I'd rather offer Zucc (assuming he wants to stay at a discounted rate/length) a contact, rather than trade him for just a 2nd round pick, especially without a really good prospect coming back.

I keep seeing "If this player got x assets back, then his player must get x+", but it doesn't always work that way.

 

[blankall]

Teams usually overpay when they're bidding against other teams. That's how that goes. That's why a 4th liner like Gaustad fetched a 1st. That's why a 3rd liner like Hanzal got a 1st and 2nd in 2017. When you're bidding against other teams, the price always goes up. Look at free agency every year. Dumb contract after dumb contract.

GM's don't operate the way we armchair GM's want. They value production and performance more than futures. The main thing most posters here on HF want is as many 1st round picks and prospects as possible.

I agree, it's supply and demand. It just so happens that this year there is a lot of supply. I'd be very upset if the Flames gave up their first and didn't go after one of the bigger targets, or at the very least a younger player than Zucc that will likely stick around with the Flames. Also, how many teams are willing to give up their 1sts and outbid the Flames?

In terms of upcoming UFAs, there's also Stone, Duchene, Panarin, Simmonds, Eberle, Ferland, Hayes, Silfverberg, Nyquist, and a slew of other players the Flames could target that aren't upcoming UFAs. Zucc may be better than some of the players on the list, but the difference to the Flames, who are looking at acquiring their 5th best forward (max) is pretty marginal. If it doesn't mean giving up the 1st, I'd prefer the slightly worse forward option. The Flames are either going big (which I doubt), and getting a guy like Stone, or they are looking for a 3rd liner and 2nd PP guy. In which case, they may be better off with a Boyle type than a Zucc type.

 

[blankall]

Why?

The Flames are not giving up 2020 1st rounders. If they're moving a 1st it'll be this year's.