OT: Fitness and Nutrition IX

[DAChampion]

You have refuted nothing. What you have said has either been entirely argumentative, self contradictory, or flagrant whataboutism that I've easily answered. This is you tapping out, instead of just graciously admitting that you were being rude without having much to say.

I think that you'll get what I wrote at a later point. Right now you're defensive, that's what it is.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think that you'll get what I wrote at a later point. Right now you're defensive, that's what it is.

I'm not defensive at all. You're just out of bullets.

 

[Mrb1p]

It takes more than a second, you have to remember everything that you eat.

As an example, I was taken out for dinner last night. I don't remember if I had two or three glasses of wine -- because I'm living my life like a normal person. I did not ask the waiter to ask the chef how much oil he used when roasting the brussel sprouts -- because I'm living my life like a normal person. If i had to do all of that extra work for every meal it would certainly take up more than one second a day.

Note that I'm aware that a lot of bodybuilders don't ask the waiter to ask the chef for a calorie counts. What they do instead is that they limit themselves to restaurants that give calorie counts, or they aboid restaurants. That is insane.

I dont ask the waiter what I eat, because I seldom eat at restaurants, like an ACTUAL normal person . Also remembering if you had two or three cups of wine isnt that hard, come on.

Whenever I eat out I just dont count them, thats dumb, the only time I eat out is when I go to my local breakfast joint and I know 3 eggs is 3 eggs and that two toasts is about 25gs of carbs each so I ballpark, but I know those days are mostly going to be higher in calories than others. This is not what will make me go fat, though.

 

[Edgy]

On a different note, I'm kinda stagnating at 83lbs of dry muscle mass on a 175lbs frame. Been stuck there for a while, tried switching up form hypertrophy to strength back to hypertrophy, different program every 4 weeks.

All full body, pull-push variations but I haven't been able to break that ceiling and my goal is to get to 90lbs of dry muscle mass, for now.

Thoughts?

 

[DAChampion]

Dont you have any goals in life ?

I think theyre not worth obsessing over.

Depends on what the goals are.

I'd like to publish a map of [blank for privacy reasons] next year -- that's worthwhile for me to obsess over.

I'd like to see my niece and nephew more often- that's worthwhile for me to obsess over.

I'd also like to learn origami -- but that's not worth obsessing over. If it doesn't happen then I won't fret about it.

Strength training is your passion and you've done a lot with it. You're operating in a different context than most people so it makes sense that you'd be more obsessive.

 

[DAChampion]

I dont ask the waiter what I eat, because I seldom eat at restaurants, like an ACTUAL normal person . Also remembering if you had two or three cups of wine isnt that hard, come on.

Whenever I eat out I just dont count them, thats dumb, the only time I eat out is when I go to my local breakfast joint and I know 3 eggs is 3 eggs and that two toasts is about 25gs of carbs each so I ballpark, but I know those days are mostly going to be higher in calories than others. This is not what will make me go fat, though.

It is actually a mental load to track how much wine is drunk, etc. Though I would do it if I were the designated driver, because in that context it's worth it.

I also don't know to what level the waiter filled the glass. I know that he was largely invisible when he did so. My priority for the night was to have a good conversation with my colleagues and friends, so I focused on that, rather than the calorie count of the meals.

My main course was bison steak, medium rare. They didn't even list how many ounces of steak it was.

I can tell you the details of the conversation last night with a lot more precision than I can tell you the calorie counts.

 

[Mrb1p]

On a different note, I'm kinda stagnating at 83lbs of dry muscle mass on a 175lbs frame. Been stuck there for a while, tried switching up form hypertrophy to strength back to hypertrophy, different program every 4 weeks.

All full body, pull-push variations but I haven't been able to break that ceiling and my goal is to get to 90lbs of dry muscle mass, for now.

Thoughts?

Yikes, took me about three seconds to find the problem. Stick to something longer, way longer. Build a program for a year, two, ten if you are willing, stick to it. See results.

Note that Im not saying do the exact same thing for a whole year, but a structured program that has you go through different training periodization is really important.

Also your diet... If youve been cutting too long, bulk a bit, if youve been bulking too long, cut a bit, if youve been at a maintenance for too long... you get what Im saying.

I should add a bit of material on this...
Renaissance Periodization | Training Volume Landmarks for Muscle Growth this is a good start.

 

[Mrb1p]

It is actually a mental overload to track how much wine is drunk, etc. Though I would do it if I were the designated driver.

I also don't know to what level the waiter filled the glass. I know that he was largely invisible when he did so. My priority for the night was to have a good conversation with my colleagues and friends, so I focused on that, rather than the calorie count of the meals.

My main course was bison steak, medium rare. They didn't even list how many ounces of steak it was.

You can ball park though, I know I can, maybe its beacuse Ive weighed my food for so long and because Ive worked in the field for ten years, I dont know, but I feel like two seconds of attention to count how many glasses you had and how big the slab of meat was isnt really an overload.

I also drink like once every 6 months and whenever I do, I dont count calories, that would be obsessive. The rest of the time I do, loosely, and I have near perfect results.

 

[DAChampion]

You can ball park though, I know I can, maybe its beacuse Ive weighed my food for so long and because Ive worked in the field for ten years, I dont know, but I feel like two seconds of attention to count how many glasses you had and how big the slab of meat was isnt really an overload.

I also drink like once every 6 months and whenever I do, I dont count calories, that would be obsessive. The rest of the time I do, loosely, and I have near perfect results.

I'm sure that it's easier for someone who has weighed his food for ten years abd who works as a chef. It's kind of like how chess masters don't see individual chess pieces and individual chess locations, rather, they see groups of pieces.

But in general, for most people, if they're out for dinner and someone is telling a joke, I recommend not stopping to listen to the joke to see "ok, waiter added to the wine, about one more glass, this many more carbs, this many more calories, ummmmmmm Todd can you repeat the joke?" etc. Unless they're the designated driver.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm sure that it's easier for someone who has weighed his food for ten years abd who works as a chef. It's kind of like how chess masters don't see individual chess pieces and individual chess locations, rather, they see groups of pieces.

But in general, for most people, if they're out for dinner and someone is telling a joke, I recommend not stopping to listen to the joke to see "ok, waiter added to the wine, about one more glass, this many more carbs, this many more calories, ummmmmmm Todd can you repeat the joke?" etc. Unless they're the designated driver.

The thing is, you dont need to add calories, carbs or anything. You'd just need to remember "3 glasses of wine" standardized to an appropriate recipient. Its really, really not that hard, and Im sure you can agree that the human mind has the ability to do this, and much more.

 

[DAChampion]

The thing is, you dont need to add calories, carbs or anything. You'd just need to remember "3 glasses of wine" standardized to an appropriate recipient. Its really, really not that hard, and Im sure you can agree that the human mind has the ability to do this, and much more.

The human mind can do that and track every other item eaten in a night and throughout the day. At the expense of tracking other things. You can only make so many decisions and log so many points in a day.

ETA: look up the terms "decision fatigue" and "cognitive tax" for general examples of the concept.

 

[Lebowski]

On a different note, I'm kinda stagnating at 83lbs of dry muscle mass on a 175lbs frame. Been stuck there for a while, tried switching up form hypertrophy to strength back to hypertrophy, different program every 4 weeks.

All full body, pull-push variations but I haven't been able to break that ceiling and my goal is to get to 90lbs of dry muscle mass, for now.

Thoughts?

What works best for me is progressive overload and consistency.

I log every lift I do (number of sets x number of reps x amount of weight) and the goal is to increase the weight or the number of reps on any given week. When I hit a plateau, I switch the rep scheme for a while and revisit my previous plateaus.

Do that for a while, eat enough food and sleep plenty and results will come.

 

[Mrb1p]

What works best for me is progressive overload and consistency.

I log every lift I do (number of sets x number of reps x amount of weight) and the goal is to increase the weight or the number of reps on any given week. When I hit a plateau, I switch the rep scheme for a while and revisit my previous plateaus.

Do that for a while, eat enough food and sleep plenty and results will come.

Wow man you have an obsessive disorder

 

[DAChampion]

Wow man you have an obsessive disorder

Logging your lifts is not at all similar to logging your calories. It takes less effort, it's more precise, more accurate, more scientifically robust, and it doesn't distract from other activities.

People typically log their weights, sets, abd reps during the workout.

 

[Mrb1p]

Logging your lifts is not at all similar to logging your calories. It takes less effort, it's more precise, more accurate, more scientifically robust, and it doesn't distract from other activities.

People typically log their weights, sets, abd reps during the workout.

I log my food at night before bed time or whenever I have a few seconds (In the subway, while walking outside, when Im waiting for one of my lectures to start, etc.)

I think youre going a bit too far with this one, DA. Its okay to concede at times, everyone can and will be wrong.

 

[DAChampion]

I log my food at night before bed time or whenever I have a few seconds (In the subway, while walking outside, when Im waiting for one of my lectures to start, etc.)

I just had my last meal here -- a tuna sandwich, at an adorable Italian deli.

I didn't check how much olive oil was drizzled on the bread, nor did I estimate the ratio of mayonnaise to tuna. I don't remember which vegetables were inside.

How many calories? 500? 1,000? How much protein?

(FWIW, people of European descent should stop contaminating tuna with mayonnaise.)

 

[Mrb1p]

I just had my last meal here -- a tuna sandwich, at an adorable Italian deli.

I didn't check how much olive oil was drizzled on the bread, nor did I estimate the ratio of mayonnaise to tuna. I don't remember which vegetables were inside.

How many calories? 500? 1,000? How much protein?

(FWIW, people of European descent should stop contaminating tuna with mayonnaise.)

Stop eating at restaurants, its borderline obsessive

Your reality is not everyones reality, theres a very small percentage of people that actually live like you.

 

[DAChampion]

Stop eating at restaurants, its borderline obsessive

Your reality is not everyones reality, theres a very small percentage of people that actually live like you.

That's true of both of us

 

[Mrb1p]

That's true of both of us

I think my life is a lot more representative, if you account for where I eat only. Most of my meals are at home, with about one meal away from home. Pretty sure thats most people in the western world, no?

Obviously Im not referring to the weighing of food, here.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I log my food at night before bed time or whenever I have a few seconds (In the subway, while walking outside, when Im waiting for one of my lectures to start, etc.)

I think youre going a bit too far with this one, DA. Its okay to concede at times, everyone can and will be wrong.

You don't meal prep?

 

[Edgy]

Yikes, took me about three seconds to find the problem. Stick to something longer, way longer. Build a program for a year, two, ten if you are willing, stick to it. See results.

Note that Im not saying do the exact same thing for a whole year, but a structured program that has you go through different training periodization is really important.

Also your diet... If youve been cutting too long, bulk a bit, if youve been bulking too long, cut a bit, if youve been at a maintenance for too long... you get what Im saying.

I should add a bit of material on this...
Renaissance Periodization | Training Volume Landmarks for Muscle Growth this is a good start.

Interesting read. Thanks.

The programs I'm using were given to me by a trainer at the gym, my understanding is they are supposed to hit different parts of the muscles in rotation. So one month it's barbell bench press, the next it'll be dumbbell fly or inclined, etc.. But then again, they're paid by the gym so my progress might be 2nd on their list of priorities lol.

In regards to eating, my friend is a dietitian so she helps me adjust my intake based on impedance test results. But I probably should add a couple of rest days for more recovery based on my understanding of that article, I guess 5 days of hypertrophy and 1 day or running isn't allowing my body to recover fast enough to make gains.

What works best for me is progressive overload and consistency.

I log every lift I do (number of sets x number of reps x amount of weight) and the goal is to increase the weight or the number of reps on any given week. When I hit a plateau, I switch the rep scheme for a while and revisit my previous plateaus.

Do that for a while, eat enough food and sleep plenty and results will come.

I used to do that, print out my program and input weights and track progression. I should probably pay more attention my progression, is there any app that helps track that? Don't like the paper and pencil model lol.

 

[Mrb1p]

You don't meal prep?

I cook every 2 or 3 days... then I just put everything in a big container and weigh my food real quick while I put everything in my bowl.

Interesting read. Thanks.

The programs I'm using were given to me by a trainer at the gym, my understanding is they are supposed to hit different parts of the muscles in rotation. So one month it's barbell bench press, the next it'll be dumbbell fly or inclined, etc.. But then again, they're paid by the gym so my progress might be 2nd on their list of priorities lol.

In regards to eating, my friend is a dietitian so she helps me adjust my intake based on impedance test results. But I probably should add a couple of rest days for more recovery based on my understanding of that article, I guess 5 days of hypertrophy and 1 day or running isn't allowing my body to recover fast enough to make gains.


I used to do that, print out my program and input weights and track progression. I should probably pay more attention my progression, is there any app that helps track that? Don't like the paper and pencil model lol.

Use excel or google sheets, takes about 5 minutes to set up a sheet.

Its fine to have some rotation in your training, but its not actually necessary to do it monthly. The most important thing you could do is probably set your intensity right and find the right volume of work for you.

 

[DAChampion]

I think my life is a lot more representative, if you account for where I eat only. Most of my meals are at home, with about one meal away from home. Pretty sure thats most people in the western world, no?

Obviously Im not referring to the weighing of food, here.

The amount of travel that I've done in the past year and a half us definitely not normal, and unhealthy. It's not something that I want to repeat long term, I've found this very difficult, I've gained weight, I've had to deal with constantly shifting circadian rhythms, and it's been harder to see friends. And I've only done this for a year and I'm in my 30s so I'm almost young. I see people do this in their 50s and 60s and I worry that they'll just drop.

I can't say that it's that uncommon. It's not just academics who do this, it's also people in the corporate sector. Otherwise business class would be called professor class.

What's unusual about you is that you have the beneficiary knowledge from being a chef, and you've achieved a lot of results by showing a decade or so of dedication to strength training. I think that fewer than 1% of people have shown that much dedication to athletics, and even less have that much knowledge of food.

Anyway the cognitive tax of calorie burden was only half my point. The other half was that it's pseudodcience. If a random person, as in not an elite athlete, actually cuts 100 calories a day from their consumption, say by reducing all of their portions by 4%, they won't lose 12 lbs of fat over the next year. They might lose 1 or 2 lbs of fat, and they'll simply have a slower metabolism, by approximately 100 calories a day.

The 160 calories in a can of coca cola are not merely bad due to they're being 160 calories in there. Their metabolic effect is far worse -- they will prevent your body from converting adipose fat into energy, via a combination of processes operating on both the short term and the long term. Fructose also fails to trigger satiety, unlike e.g. tree nuts.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I cook every 2 or 3 days... then I just put everything in a big container and weigh my food real quick while I put everything in my bowl.

Yeah boiiiiii. I have some individual containers which are pretty convenient.

I'm thinking about making chili this week.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah boiiiiii. I have some individual containers which are pretty convenient.

I'm thinking about making chili this week.

Chilis too long. Youd have to add in every ingredient then divide... arf. Screw that. I cook meat and rice and eat that with a side of veg. I dig my basmati and lean ground beef every day. This shit is gum. Add in a few green beans, peppers or whatever and its defo a meal I love.

Ketchup makes everything go down so easy.