OT: Fitness and Nutrition IX

[DAChampion]

Single bad day or event where I end up drinking/binge eating socially. Then I just bend until it breaks.

Almost all of us have had days from time to time. It happens. It is a bit weird that this is enough to throw you off track.

Imagine if you practised playing the piano an hour a day for three months. On the 91st day, you have a fever and do you don't practice. Would you then quit practising? Hopefully not.

It may be that something else also happens to you that breaks your motivation.

What's undermined my motivation in the past has included injuries, depression, and major life changes.

 

[Treb]

Almost all of us have had days from time to time. It happens. It is a bit weird that this is enough to throw you off track.

Imagine if you practised playing the piano an hour a day for three months. On the 91st day, you have a fever and do you don't practice. Would you then quit practising? Hopefully not.

It may be that something else also happens to you that breaks your motivation.

What's undermined my motivation in the past has included injuries, depression, and major life changes.

I'm known for my low motivation in pretty much everything ever.

 

[DAChampion]

I'm known for my low motivation in pretty much everything ever.

Let us know the next time that you're feeling unmotivated.

S̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶c̶u̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶a̶n̶k̶i̶n̶g̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶u̶m̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶s̶'̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶v̶e̶s̶.̶

So that we can offer support and help you get back on track.

 

[Mrb1p]

Man Drouins playing like hes the best player on the ice. Ive never seen that from him. Lets hope.

 

[Kriss E]

Man Drouins playing like hes the best player on the ice. Ive never seen that from him. Lets hope.

Must have had some Lima bean hummus.

 

[Mrb1p]

Must have had some Lima bean hummus.

W-r-r-r-ong thread

 

[NotProkofievian]

For the people who think that they're counting calories to 0.05% precision (lol), a single incorrect meal every seven years will be sufficient to double their assumed measurement error.

In general, a single meal a week with a factor of 2 error , and that's a very conservative estimate, will give you a 5% error. So really nobody should be bothering to get a higher precision than 100 calories a day. That can be understood from a first year undergraduate course. I wouldn't be nearly as amused if people were rounding to the nearest 100 calories. It is also the case that for most normal people, the sample will be larger than one meal a week.

100 calories per day is about all that you can hope to accomplish by counting. It's also quite easily good enough. I don't know why you are pretending like everyone who counts calories does so obsessively or compulsively. It's just not true.

Moreover, the calories themselves don't matter that much. The human body is not a bomb calorimeter. A single calorie of sugar has a different effect than a calorie of protein or fat, and behaves differently based on what time of day you eat it at. That is well documented, but the people who count calories often ignore that, because they're more interested in the illusion of control.

You don't actually learn how many calories are approximately in things. The same meal in two different restaurants can have a calorie count that varies by a factor of two or three.

Calories aren't everything, but they do matter.

I suspect that for healthy people, eating the right macros should lead to them to feel satisfied once they've eaten enough to maintain a lean body weight.

Comfort foods are largely engineered to bypass the human body's satiety response, causing people to eat a lot more. For example, coca cola is absorbed faster than a lot of the body's hormonal response to food.

And how shall I count my macros? I mean, since even by weighing things compulsively, which is the only way people weigh things we've established, you can't learn (within a factor of 3!) how many calories are in things, how can I hope to learn how many macros are in things?

 

[DAChampion]

And how shall I count my macros? I mean, since even by weighing things compulsively, which is the only way people weigh things we've established, you can't learn (within a factor of 3!) how many calories are in things, how can I hope to learn how many macros are in things?

The ratios are a lot easier to keep track of than the total calorie counts. For example, let's say you get a snack of mixed nuts:

You know that roughly 70% of the calories or whatever are from fat, regardless of whether you have 1 nut or a handful. You don't need to count them.

In contrast, my friend was told by her personal trainer a few years back to eat 9 nuts a day and no more, because of the calories. That is each of psychotic, pseudoscientific, and impractical. However, it is representative of a common attitude in the bro-science community.

 

[Kriss E]

The ratios are a lot easier to keep track of than the total calorie counts. For example, let's say you get a snack of mixed nuts:

You know that roughly 70% of the calories or whatever are from fat, regardless of whether you have 1 nut or a handful. You don't need to count them.

In contrast, my friend was told by her personal trainer a few years back to eat 9 nuts a day and no more, because of the calories. That is each of psychotic, pseudoscientific, and impractical. However, it is representative of a common attitude in the bro-science community.

Yes and it's fine if you just have a handful, most people will have a couple handfuls though and they have no idea what that represents.
If they look behind for the nutritional value breakdown, they'll see “per 100g”...but they have no clue what 100g of nuts looks like.

If we wanted to make things simple, everything would come in portion size, or have a scoop that fits the portion.
I think people would eat a lot less/better if they knew what their portions represented.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I've been trying to get motivated for years, but it never worked for more than 3 months at a time. A day always comes where I break the no alcohol/crap food habit and then it all falls apart.

Do you like rules and strict things to follow, or are you a more ''shades of grey'' kind of person? For some people, not allowing yourself any pleasure like alcohol/crap food makes them feel imprisoned. For some people, the stricter the better. You tell them what to do, and they just do it. And the fact that it's so clear what is to be done is not restrictive, but rather something to believe in, if that makes sense.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The ratios are a lot easier to keep track of than the total calorie counts. For example, let's say you get a snack of mixed nuts:

You know that roughly 70% of the calories or whatever are from fat, regardless of whether you have 1 nut or a handful. You don't need to count them.

So I can just eat how ever many nuts I want, regardless of my nutrition goals, and you know, just because I know that I've eaten about 70% fat, I should be good? I really don't need to know how much I ate?

You are really in a corner, here. I can keep track of macro ratios, but I can't keep track of calories within a factor of 3, somehow. Moreover, when you answer my question here in the negative, you will somehow have to propose a method of keeping track of how much you ate while simultaneously being not pseudoscientific and not neurotic. Good luck to you.

Alternatively, you could just admit that you're tilting at windmills, here.

In contrast, my friend was told by her personal trainer a few years back to eat 9 nuts a day and no more, because of the calories. That is each of psychotic, pseudoscientific, and impractical. However, it is representative of a common attitude in the bro-science community.

Is that the kind of bro-science that is only for elite athletes, again, or is this now a different kind of bro-science?

 

[DAChampion]

So I can just eat how ever many nuts I want, regardless of my nutrition goals, and you know, just because I know that I've eaten about 70% fat, I should be good? I really don't need to know how much I ate?

You are really in a corner, here. I can keep track of macro ratios, but I can't keep track of calories within a factor of 3, somehow. Moreover, when you answer my question here in the negative, you will somehow have to propose a method of keeping track of how much you ate while simultaneously being not pseudoscientific and not neurotic. Good luck to you.

Alternatively, you could just admit that you're tilting at windmills, here.



Is that the kind of bro-science that is only for elite athletes, again, or is this now a different kind of bro-science?

Do you seriously not get that things change if it's for a person's job?

A male model might spend one hour a day grooming himself, applying various skin care and hair care creams, etc, and that's fine. It's fine because it's for his job, so it makes sense, and he will likely get great results. He's also at an elite level where a 1% change can matter. However, if you or I were to do it then it would not make as much sense. I'm not sure if you get the point of the analogy, but it's rather simple.

As for "eating as many nuts as you want", Jesus Christ : facepalm:. Unless you dip them in chocolate or something or you have a hormonal issue, tree nuts should trigger a satiety response. You're not going to gorge on them.

About you keeping track of your caloric intake -- do you also keep track of your metabolism by logging your resting heart rate, body temperature, wakefulness, etc? Or are you ignoring the first law of thermodynamics by only tracking "calories in"?

ETA: I never wrote that you can't track your calories within a factor of 3. Is English your second language? Realistically, tracking calories from day to day with a 20% precision is probably fine.

Also, I've realized another error in your reasoning. You're assuming that if something works for an elite athlete then it will work for you. That doesn't follow at all. Elite athletes have genetic advantages, including excellent adaptiveness to exercise, low insulin resistance, etc.

 

[Mrb1p]

Do you seriously not get that things change if it's for a person's job?

A male model might spend one hour a day grooming himself, applying various skin care and hair care creams, etc, and that's fine. It's fine because it's for his job, so it makes sense, and he will likely get great results. He's also at an elite level where a 1% change can matter. However, if you or I were to do it then it would not make as much sense. I'm not sure if you get the point of the analogy, but it's rather simple.

As for "eating as many nuts as you want", Jesus Christ : facepalm:. Unless you dip them in chocolate or something or you have a hormonal issue, tree nuts should trigger a satiety response. You're not going to gorge on them.

About you keeping track of your caloric intake -- do you also keep track of your metabolism by logging your resting heart rate, body temperature, wakefulness, etc? Or are you ignoring the first law of thermodynamics by only tracking "calories in"?

ETA: I never wrote that you can't track your calories within a factor of 3. Is English your second language? Realistically, tracking calories from day to day with a 20% precision is probably fine.

Also, I've realized another error in your reasoning. You're assuming that if something works for an elite athlete then it will work for you. That doesn't follow at all. Elite athletes have genetic advantages, including excellent adaptiveness to exercise, low insulin resistance, etc.

I can go through a whole lotta nuts myself

On a more serious note, most people who track calories dont ignore the first law of thermodynamics because the end result is weight gained or weight lost. If you track your weight daily you should have a good idea of all this.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I ballpark calories, but I agree with DA that you can go overboard with it if you are weighing shit and using a calculator etc if fitness isn't your job.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Do you seriously not get that things change if it's for a person's job?

A male model might spend one hour a day grooming himself, applying various skin care and hair care creams, etc, and that's fine. It's fine because it's for his job, so it makes sense, and he will likely get great results. He's also at an elite level where a 1% change can matter. However, if you or I were to do it then it would not make as much sense. I'm not sure if you get the point of the analogy, but it's rather simple.

So it is or is not pseudoscience? I mean, why should an elite athlete for whom a 1% difference bother with pseudoscience?

To be honest, we're only having an argument right now because you weren't very respectful at the beginning, and refuse to walk back any of your claims. It would be nice if you could show a little respect for others by refraining from diagnoses of neurosis because they might have a different approach than you do.

As for "eating as many nuts as you want", Jesus Christ : facepalm:. Unless you dip them in chocolate or something or you have a hormonal issue, tree nuts should trigger a satiety response.

Oh, they certainly will satiate me after about 150g. Do you know how many calories that is? It's about 1000, or about 1/3rd of my daily maintenance. You should not tell someone to play it by ear with something that has 6 f***ing calories per gram lol.

About you keeping track of your caloric intake -- do you also keep track of your metabolism by logging your resting heart rate, body temperature, wakefulness, etc? Or are you ignoring the first law of thermodynamics by only tracking "calories in"?

You indeed need two pieces of information to have some understanding of whether you are in a deficit or not. I monitor if I actually am in a deficit by logging my weight every morning. Day to day this tells you nothing. Over the course of a week or longer, however, it tells you quite a bit. You can plot a trend line through these weights to estimate your daily caloric deficit. You need an additional piece of information, though: just because you're losing weight doesn't mean it's fat. So I take a weekly progress picture, and every few weeks I'll do another 3 site test.

 

[Mrb1p]

I ballpark calories, but I agree with DA that you can go overboard with it if you are weighing **** and using a calculator etc if fitness isn't your job.

I want to bulk to 240, maybe 250.

Why ? I want to get stronger, maybe compete someday.

its not my job

Should I eat whatever I want and just eyeball it ? Because I swear if I just do that Ill eat about 1 meal a day consisting of a lot of sugar and Ill be done with it.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I want to bulk to 240, maybe 250.

Why ? I want to get stronger, maybe compete someday.

its not my job

Should I eat whatever I want and just eyeball it ? Because I swear if I just do that Ill eat about 1 meal a day consisting of a lot of sugar and Ill be done with it.

You can do whatever you please, I just think it's not something worth obsessing over.

 

[Mrb1p]

You can do whatever you please, I just think it's not something worth obsessing over.

Dont you have any goals in life ?

I think theyre not worth obsessing over.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

I can go through a whole lotta nuts myself

On a more serious note, most people who track calories dont ignore the first law of thermodynamics because the end result is weight gained or weight lost. If you track your weight daily you should have a good idea of all this.

I just don't understand how a daily calorie tracking system can be done without being driven insane. People who do these sorts of things have incorrect or inaccurate calculations as it's impossible to go through your daily energy expenditure precisely.

There are always different stressors that will affect your basal metabolism, so unless you take into account all stressors and know your exact energy expenditure at all times the daily calorie calculator is a flawed system. Also, like DAchampion says, if you know the basic molecular composition of the food you're eating (say it contains 30% lipids and 70% proteins) and the grams you're going to ingest you can always ballpark it. I always just eat things that I consider healthy and I don't really focus on the calories, there are inevitably going to be days where you'll be hungrier and eat more. I'm open to hearing how some would consider it easier to go about a daily calorie counting thing, but I don't believe it is some incredibly accurate scientific approach to eating.

 

[Mrb1p]

I just don't understand how a daily calorie tracking system can be done without being driven insane. People who do these sorts of things have incorrect or inaccurate calculations as it's impossible to go through your daily energy expenditure precisely.

There are always different stressors that will affect your basal metabolism, so unless you take into account all stressors and know your exact energy expenditure at all times the daily calorie calculator is a flawed system. Also, like DAchampion says, if you know the basic molecular composition of the food you're eating (say it contains 30% lipids and 70% proteins) and the grams you're going to ingest you can always ballpark it. I always just eat things that I consider healthy and I don't really focus on the calories, there are inevitably going to be days where you'll be hungrier and eat more. I'm open to hearing how some would consider it easier to go about a daily calorie counting thing, but I don't believe it is some incredibly accurate scientific approach to eating.

Its as simple as
Acquire scale
download calorie counting app, or do it by hand (a bit longer, but probably more accurate.)
ballpark your calories to a certain number (mine was 3100 a few months ago)
stick to the number for an extended amount of time (2 weeks, 3 weeks.)
analyze weight
adjust calories on results

As simple as that.

I'm not going insane, I literally take about 1 second more to weigh and log things into an app.

 

[DAChampion]

So it is or is not pseudoscience? I mean, why should an elite athlete for whom a 1% difference bother with pseudoscience?

To be honest, we're only having an argument right now because you weren't very respectful at the beginning, and refuse to walk back any of your claims. It would be nice if you could show a little respect for others by refraining from diagnoses of neurosis because they might have a different approach than you do.



Oh, they certainly will satiate me after about 150g. Do you know how many calories that is? It's about 1000, or about 1/3rd of my daily maintenance. You should not tell someone to play it by ear with something that has 6 ****ing calories per gram lol.



You indeed need two pieces of information to have some understanding of whether you are in a deficit or not. I monitor if I actually am in a deficit by logging my weight every morning. Day to day this tells you nothing. Over the course of a week or longer, however, it tells you quite a bit. You can plot a trend line through these weights to estimate your daily caloric deficit. You need an additional piece of information, though: just because you're losing weight doesn't mean it's fat. So I take a weekly progress picture, and every few weeks I'll do another 3 site test.

I have already explained the failures in your reasoning to you, they're just not registering. You are free to reread my posts until the content processes, otherwise you simply repeating prior points that I've already refuted won't advance the conversation.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I just don't understand how a daily calorie tracking system can be done without being driven insane. People who do these sorts of things have incorrect or inaccurate calculations as it's impossible to go through your daily energy expenditure precisely.

There are always different stressors that will affect your basal metabolism, so unless you take into account all stressors and know your exact energy expenditure at all times the daily calorie calculator is a flawed system. Also, like DAchampion says, if you know the basic molecular composition of the food you're eating (say it contains 30% lipids and 70% proteins) and the grams you're going to ingest you can always ballpark it. I always just eat things that I consider healthy and I don't really focus on the calories, there are inevitably going to be days where you'll be hungrier and eat more. I'm open to hearing how some would consider it easier to go about a daily calorie counting thing, but I don't believe it is some incredibly accurate scientific approach to eating.

A few things: you only count in, because that you can know with a high degree of accuracy. You monitor the effect that this has on your body composition depending on your goal. But because you know what you were eating, depending on the result that you see, you know how to adjust your calories in. If I were trying to lose fat, and my weight dropped like a stone (which is not good) I would have to eat more. But if I wasn't monitoring my calories, the question would be ''more than what?''

And secondly, I don't ''count'' for every single meal. For one, I meal prep. That's actually vastly more efficient and cost effective. I spend 2 hours cooking on sunday, and I have meals for the rest of the week. In that 2 hours, I count. So I count once, but I get a good estimate for the calories of 10 meals. Some dishes are things that I make every day, like breakfast. I make the exact same thing every breakfast, so I don't have to count it. And lastly, there are many snack options that have the calories on the package. Kwark is a big one here.

Here's the thing: do you somehow have more information because you didn't weigh your food, or do you have more if you weigh it?

 

[DAChampion]

Its as simple as
Acquire scale
download calorie counting app, or do it by hand (a bit longer, but probably more accurate.)
ballpark your calories to a certain number (mine was 3100 a few months ago)
stick to the number for an extended amount of time (2 weeks, 3 weeks.)
analyze weight
adjust calories on results

As simple as that.

I'm not going insane, I literally take about 1 second more to weigh and log things into an app.

It takes more than a second, you have to remember everything that you eat.

As an example, I was taken out for dinner last night. I don't remember if I had two or three glasses of wine -- because I'm living my life like a normal person. I did not ask the waiter to ask the chef how much oil he used when roasting the brussel sprouts -- because I'm living my life like a normal person. If i had to do all of that extra work for every meal it would certainly take up more than one second a day.

Note that I'm aware that a lot of bodybuilders don't ask the waiter to ask the chef for a calorie counts. What they do instead is that they limit themselves to restaurants that give calorie counts, or they aboid restaurants. That is insane.

 

[Edgy]

I used to count calories and weigh my portions on a daily basis when I first started out training and trying to lose weight. It was helpful to figure out where I stand on the day, so I don't sabotage myself by overeating. I stopped doing that after a while because I reached the weight goal I wanted and I'm able to ballpark quantities, portions and calories I'm taking in. I'm now looking to add 15lbs of dry muscle mass while losing the muffin top fat around my waist, I'm about half way there with many ups and downs along the way lol.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I have already explained the failures in your reasoning to you, they're just not registering. You are free to reread my posts until the content processes, otherwise you simply repeating prior points that I've already refuted won't advance the conversation.

You have refuted nothing. What you have said has either been entirely argumentative, self contradictory, or flagrant whataboutism that I've easily answered. This is you tapping out, instead of just graciously admitting that you were being rude without having much to say.