Fire Treliving

[Fire Treliving]

I'm on board with firing Treliving. It's not just about the Eichel non-trade.

It's not selling high on a guy like Hanifin when he had Kylington and Valimaki.

It's not selling high on a guy like Monahan when he had Sam Bennett.

It's botching the Brodie situation from the Kadri trade to the UFA walk

It's botching the Giordano situation when he could have traded him for assets.

It's hiring Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward.

It's signing Brouwer/Neal/Bouma to deals they were never going to live up to.

It's not acquiring two PP1 calibre RHS forwards in a nearly eight year span of being GM.

It's waiving Paul Byron when the team sorely needed a speedy 200 foot player to set the pace and tempo and compete level.

It's generally just being gutless.

Can the Flames maybe pull a 2019 Blues and eke out the cup? Sure. But that's not because of Treliving, it's because of a core that Button drafted. It's mostly in spite of Treliving, actually.

Excatly.

But let's put all that aside.

Think about this:

Vegas, a team that had massive success from day 1, more success than the Flames for over 30 years, a team that consistently drafted lower than the Flames, traded their picks and prospects for immediate help (Stone, Pacioretty for example), still has better (and more desirable) young players and prospects than the Flames. Mindblowing.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I'm on board with firing Treliving. It's not just about the Eichel non-trade.

It's not selling high on a guy like Hanifin when he had Kylington and Valimaki.

It's not selling high on a guy like Monahan when he had Sam Bennett.

It's botching the Brodie situation from the Kadri trade to the UFA walk

It's botching the Giordano situation when he could have traded him for assets.

It's hiring Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward.

It's signing Brouwer/Neal/Bouma to deals they were never going to live up to.

It's not acquiring two PP1 calibre RHS forwards in a nearly eight year span of being GM.

It's waiving Paul Byron when the team sorely needed a speedy 200 foot player to set the pace and tempo and compete level.

It's generally just being gutless.

Can the Flames maybe pull a 2019 Blues and eke out the cup? Sure. But that's not because of Treliving, it's because of a core that Button drafted. It's mostly in spite of Treliving, actually.

Not necessarily trying to defend Tre, but he did win the trade with Carolina, and if we do have any success it will be with Hanny and Lindy as part of our core. Kyller, Ras and Vali were all drafted during his tenure, and it was Tre who signed Tanev. And Marky. It's still early in the season, but the Flames have allowed fewer goals than any other team in the league except Carolina, who remain perfect thru nine games to start the season. I agree that he's made a handful of bonehead moves up front, but our entire back-end is Tre's construction, and I think he deserves some credit for that.

 

[DFF]

Not necessarily trying to defend Tre, but he did win the trade with Carolina, and if we do have any success it will be with Hanny and Lindy as part of our core. Kyller, Ras and Vali were all drafted during his tenure, and it was Tre who signed Tanev. And Marky. It's still early in the season, but the Flames have allowed fewer goals than any other team in the league except Carolina, who remain perfect thru nine games to start the season. I agree that he's made a handful of bonehead moves up front, but our entire back-end is Tre's construction, and I think he deserves some credit for that.

We did well but don’t tell Carolina fans that. They will tell you that was the trade that made them a contender they are today

 

[Darth Vladar]

We did well but don’t tell Carolina fans that. They will tell you that was the trade that made them a contender they are today

As none of the players they traded for in that deal are on their current roster, and one of them went on to win the Norris with the only team he was ever going to play for lmao

 

[Some Other Flame]

This is a sad franchise.

 

[Nanuuk]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Can't wait for another 1st round playoff exit. I can't believe that some fans are content going forward with our mediocre roster that barely holds a candle to top teams in this league. The definition of instanity

I can't believe the sky is falling crowd either.

 

[DFF]

As none of the players they traded for in that deal are on their current roster, and one of them went on to win the Norris with the only team he was ever going to play for lmao

Just telling you my ‘discussion’ with canes fans. In a way they are right, they became a contender after that trade. Maybe they just need a shakeup. I think they just need to get rid off peters but they didn’t buy that lol

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Mediocrity baby woooo

 

[Dack]

Maybe it's true we didn't have the ammunition to get it done, but if that's true it goes back to the Hamonic trade. If this team had a Dobson/Farabee (Or Tkachuk because Farabee has helped make him expendable) can we still not beat this trade? Not to mention other prospect trade chips that we would've gotten with our 2nds in 2018 & 2019.


Treliving should have been fired a couple seasons ago. He's been here 7 years and the team has accomplished nothing. Dude can't actually complete anything in the last couple years.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I'm on board with firing Treliving. It's not just about the Eichel non-trade.

It's not selling high on a guy like Hanifin when he had Kylington and Valimaki.

It's not selling high on a guy like Monahan when he had Sam Bennett.

It's botching the Brodie situation from the Kadri trade to the UFA walk

It's botching the Giordano situation when he could have traded him for assets.

It's hiring Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward.

It's signing Brouwer/Neal/Bouma to deals they were never going to live up to.

It's not acquiring two PP1 calibre RHS forwards in a nearly eight year span of being GM.

It's waiving Paul Byron when the team sorely needed a speedy 200 foot player to set the pace and tempo and compete level.

It's generally just being gutless.

Can the Flames maybe pull a 2019 Blues and eke out the cup? Sure. But that's not because of Treliving, it's because of a core that Button drafted. It's mostly in spite of Treliving, actually.

why the hate for Hanifin. He’s missed one game this year. The only game we didn’t dominate possession…

same thing happened last year when he went down. Our possession numbers took a free fall.

Valimaki has struggled this season on the third pair, I don’t care what his fancy stats say

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Not necessarily trying to defend Tre, but he did win the trade with Carolina

I don't really care, to be honest.

If I were GM, I don't trade Hamilton and Ferland for Lindholm and Hanifin. I move Hamilton to RW, and tell Fox that if he signs, he's on our top pair, top PP, today, not five years from now like the plan Treliving likely tried to sell Fox on. That's the real reason Fox never signed here, make no mistake. Tre's plan of "developing" players who should be in the top pair or top line is a joke.

I also don't acquire Hamonic, so my 2018-19 Flames look like this. About the only Treliving move I make is signing Ryan, because that was sort of a no-brainer. Also I hire Sheldon Keefe not Bill Peters. Oh, and instead of signing James Neal, I don't sign James Neal. Oh, and I don't waive and trade Brett Kulak either.

2018-19 Flames

Giordano-Fox
Kylington-Brodie
Kulak-Andersson

Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Hamilton
Mangiapane - Dube(/Ryan)- Monahan
Frolik - Jankowksi - Hathaway


You can call this revisionist history but I'd bet I posted this exact lineup in summer 2018. I'm consistent.

Yeah, we win the cup easily that year instead of "developing" Bennett, Dube and Kylington and Fox by not using them. I don't even care if Ferland walks as a free agent if we get a Cup out of it.

and if we do have any success it will be with Hanny and Lindy as part of our core.

The only reason Lindy has had success here is because we have exactly zero other top six RHS forwards. He was a nobody in Carolina, and he'd be a nobody on a team with two top six RHS forwards better than him, which isn't even a high bar. He's not a star player. At best he might have a Rod Brind'Amour / Ryan Kesler career as a decent defensive 2C. Johnny props him up like crazy. And Hanifin is vanilla AF. We lost him to injury and gave Valimaki a chance to run with it on a pair with Andersson, we improve as a team.

Kyller, Ras and Vali were all drafted during his tenure,

Tod Button had autonomy over drafting. The best you can say is that Treliving traded for the draft pick to acquire Oliver, but then you remember that that same offseason we traded two seconds (so there's your Kylington + Brandon Carlo) and our first (which could have been Matthew Barzal by the way! In fact that's who I was pumping here on CFHF the day before the draft).

So now we go back to the above and we have


Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Barzal - Monahan
Mangiapane - Backlund - Hathaway
Frolik - Ryan - Jankowski

Giordano-Fox
Kylington-Brodie
Kulak-Andersson
Carlo

instead.

and it was Tre who signed Tanev.

Tre signed Tanev because he had to. Because he mismanaged Brodie

Tanev is not as good as Brodie. Never was.

And Marky.

Markstrom is just a goalie. We've had just-a-goalies for Treliving's entire tenure here. We've had a ton of hot streaks from them too.

It's still early in the season, but the Flames have allowed fewer goals than any other team in the league except Carolina, who remain perfect thru nine games to start the season.

Darryl Sutter is a great coach, yes.

And there are rumours that ownership went over Tre's head to hire him.

What does that say.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

why the hate for Hanifin. He’s missed one game this year. The only game we didn’t dominate possession…

same thing happened last year when he went down. Our possession numbers took a free fall.

Valimaki has struggled this season on the third pair, I don’t care what his fancy stats say

I don't hate Hanifin. He's fine as a second pairing vanilla puckmoving D. But we could have got real, ELC value back for him in a trade. He isn't a #1D. We struggled that night without him because of how Sutter organized the pairings:

Andersson-Tanev (wtf?)
Valimaki-Gudbranson
Kylington-Stone

when he sensibly could have done

Kylington-Tanev
Valimaki-Andersson
Stone/Zadorov-Gudbranson

Valimaki has never had a partner as good as Tanev or Andersson.

 

[super6646]

I don't really care, to be honest.

If I were GM, I don't trade Hamilton and Ferland for Lindholm and Hanifin. I move Hamilton to RW, and tell Fox that if he signs, he's on our top pair, top PP, today, not five years from now like the plan Treliving likely tried to sell Fox on. That's the real reason Fox never signed here, make no mistake. Tre's plan of "developing" players who should be in the top pair or top line is a joke.

I also don't acquire Hamonic, so my 2018-19 Flames look like this. About the only Treliving move I make is signing Ryan, because that was sort of a no-brainer. Also I hire Sheldon Keefe not Bill Peters. Oh, and instead of signing James Neal, I don't sign James Neal. Oh, and I don't waive and trade Brett Kulak either.

2018-19 Flames

Giordano-Fox
Kylington-Brodie
Kulak-Andersson

Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Hamilton
Mangiapane - Dube(/Ryan)- Monahan
Frolik - Jankowksi - Hathaway


You can call this revisionist history but I'd bet I posted this exact lineup in summer 2018. I'm consistent.

Yeah, we win the cup easily that year instead of "developing" Bennett, Dube and Kylington and Fox by not using them. I don't even care if Ferland walks as a free agent if we get a Cup out of it.



The only reason Lindy has had success here is because we have exactly zero other top six RHS forwards. He was a nobody in Carolina, and he'd be a nobody on a team with two top six RHS forwards better than him, which isn't even a high bar. He's not a star player. At best he might have a Rod Brind'Amour / Ryan Kesler career as a decent defensive 2C. Johnny props him up like crazy. And Hanifin is vanilla AF. We lost him to injury and gave Valimaki a chance to run with it on a pair with Andersson, we improve as a team.



Tod Button had autonomy over drafting. The best you can say is that Treliving traded for the draft pick to acquire Oliver, but then you remember that that same offseason we traded two seconds (so there's your Kylington + Brandon Carlo) and our first (which could have been Matthew Barzal by the way! In fact that's who I was pumping here on CFHF the day before the draft).

So now we go back to the above and we have


Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Barzal - Monahan
Mangiapane - Dube - Hathaway
Frolik - Ryan - Jankowski

Giordano-Fox
Kylington-Brodie
Kulak-Andersson
Carlo

instead.



Tre signed Tanev because he had to. Because he mismanaged Brodie

Tanev is not as good as Brodie. Never was.



Markstrom is just a goalie. We've had just-a-goalies for Treliving's entire tenure here. We've had a ton of hot streaks from them too.



Darryl Sutter is a great coach, yes.

And there are rumours that ownership went over Tre's head to hire him.

What does that say.

If fox didn’t wanna sign here it doesn’t matter what you say to him. He had his own agency in that choice.

The fact ppl still bring up the Carolina trade though is lmao worthy. Tre’s good trade record is pretty much 2 Hamilton trades because the rest is very lacklustre

 

[Mobiandi]

All he's done in 7 years is hemorrhage assets and complain about the trade market. At this point, it's worth asking... do other GMs actually like the guy enough to negotiate with him?

 

[Darth Vladar]

Yeah, Fox was never signing anywhere but NY.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If fox didn’t wanna sign here it doesn’t matter what you say to him. He had his own agency in that choice.

The only reason Fox didn't want to sign here was because Tre brought in Hamilton, Hamonic, Stone, plus he had to compete with Andersson for that other RHD spot (that Andersson took from Stone).

High end prospects look at your team lineup and want to see themselves fitting in at the top. Sam Bennett asked for a trade for the same reason, not because he didn't want to be here but because he wanted to be somewhere he had a spot.

 

[super6646]

The only reason Fox didn't want to sign here was because Tre brought in Hamilton, Hamonic, Stone, plus he had to compete with Andersson for that other RHD spot (that Andersson took from Stone).

High end prospects look at your team lineup and want to see themselves fitting in at the top. Sam Bennett asked for a trade for the same reason, not because he didn't want to be here but because he wanted to be somewhere he had a spot.

Give me a quote from fox about it. Otherwise you are just speculating. Carolina couldn’t get him either and I’m sure they could’ve found a fit too.

 

[Darth Vladar]

The only reason Fox didn't want to sign here was because Tre brought in Hamilton, Hamonic, Stone, plus he had to compete with Andersson for that other RHD spot (that Andersson took from Stone).

High end prospects look at your team lineup and want to see themselves fitting in at the top. Sam Bennett asked for a trade for the same reason, not because he didn't want to be here but because he wanted to be somewhere he had a spot.

Why didn't Fox sign in Carolina?

Edit: @super6646 beat me to it, rhetorical anyways

 

[Mitts]

The only reason Fox didn't want to sign here was because Tre brought in Hamilton, Hamonic, Stone, plus he had to compete with Andersson for that other RHD spot (that Andersson took from Stone).

High end prospects look at your team lineup and want to see themselves fitting in at the top. Sam Bennett asked for a trade for the same reason, not because he didn't want to be here but because he wanted to be somewhere he had a spot.

You just make shit up in your head and believe it ? Right cause Fox leaving couldn't be because he was born in New York, his father is a NYR season ticket holder, couldn't be because that's where Fox was determined to play. All players look to see where they will fit in a lineup, that's nothing new. Fox left because Fox wanted to play in his hometown, plain and simple.

 

[Dertell]

The only reason why the Carolina trade doesn't look atrocious is because we were hilariously lucky with Lindholm and Carolina's managerial incompetence. Notably, why on earth would they try to acquire Fox and believe they could convince him to sign with them anymore than we could even though they were stacked on both sides of their defense is still incomprehensible to me even to this day.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Why didn't Fox sign in Carolina?

Edit: @super6646 beat me to it, rhetorical anyways

Dougie Hamilton
Brett Pesce

Literally the same issue as the situation in Calgary.

Literally.

You just make shit up in your head and believe it ? Right cause Fox leaving couldn't be because he was born in New York, his father is a NYR season ticket holder, couldn't be because that's where Fox was determined to play. All players look to see where they will fit in a lineup, that's nothing new. Fox left because Fox wanted to play in his hometown, plain and simple.

Why did Fox go all the way to Michigan for the USNTDP, Massechusetts for college, if he's so afraid of moving all the way to South Carolina

lol

 

[Darth Vladar]

The only reason why the Carolina trade doesn't look atrocious is because we were hilariously lucky with Lindholm and Carolina's managerial incompetence. Notably, why on earth would they try to acquire Fox and believe they could convince him to sign with them anymore than we could even though they were stacked on both sides of their defense is still incomprehensible to me even to this day.

Even an unsigned Fox was an asset that Waddell managed to turn into three draft picks. None of which have seemed to pan out of yet, mind you, but three prospects nonetheless.

 

[Kranix]

Dougie Hamilton
Brett Pesce

Literally the same issue as the situation in Calgary.

Literally.



Why did Fox go all the way to Michigan for the USNTDP, Massechusetts for college, if he's so afraid of moving all the way to South Carolina

lol

Fox wanted to exploit the college loop hole to get to UFA, so he was traded twice. His agent basically told Flames and Canes, he's not going to look at a contract with you until he's done university, so they panicked and dealt him

 

[Dertell]

Even an unsigned Fox was an asset that Waddell managed to turn into three draft picks. None of which have seemed to pan out of yet, mind you, but three prospects nonetheless.

i thought he flipped him for two? given the second fox trade happened a year later i think they genuinely thought they could sign him

 

[Darth Vladar]

i thought he flipped him for two? given the second fox trade happened a year later i think they genuinely thought they could sign him

One of the two turned into two more. I believe Ottawa traded up to grab a goalie.