Fire Treliving

[super6646]

Dougie Hamilton
Brett Pesce

Literally the same issue as the situation in Calgary.

Literally.



Why did Fox go all the way to Michigan for the USNTDP, Massechusetts for college, if he's so afraid of moving all the way to South Carolina

lol

So the rangers were the only team in the league with a need for rhd then? It’s a strange coincidence he ended up being traded there…

The rangers acquired trouba like a month and a half later and already had deangelo and yet you didn’t hear a peep from fox about it lol.

 

[cheechoo]

Brad Treliving is a p***y.

Until it's time to sign or trade for a 3rd pairing defenseman that's a plague to his unfortunate partner.

 

[Mitts]

Why did Fox go all the way to Michigan for the USNTDP, Massechusetts for college, if he's so afraid of moving all the way to South Carolina

lol

Lmao, who said he was afraid to go anywhere ? What are you even talking about, being scared to play somewhere vs actually wanting to play somewhere are not the same thing.

 

[DFF]

Fox had a Harvard degree to fall back on. He can afford to wait it out.

 

[crazyfisherman]

All the thing to blame tre, fox isnt one of them. We had a feeling about him for a while and he proved it

 

[Mazatt]

I think you can definitely get on Treliving's case for his asset management. He seems to buy high and never turn players into assets that carry over into the future. Like, look at the 2019 roster.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Neal
Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki/Kylington - Andersson

Smith
Rittich

From the Flames winningest team in modern history, those red names have been turned into - 2nd, 2 3rds (one spent on Zadorov), 4th, Lucic, and Heineman. How in the WORLD do you bleed so much talent from a roster and have nothing to show for it? Especially when you spent a 1st, 2 2nd's, and a 3rd to get those guys? The Hamilton trade should've been a blueprint for how to acumulate assets. Trade a pending UFA in Ferland and a top pairing d-man who you won't afford in the future in order to get two young, cost controlled assets with potential. And the Flames almost did that with Jankowski and Brodie for Kadri and Brown, but that fell out, but then the Flames just decided... to do nothing? The writing was on the wall, they were putting Brodie on the 3rd pairing, they had offered him for a trade, and there's heavy indicators he's walking to (likely) Toronto. And guess what, he does that and the Flames end up with nothing. The Flames try and sell high on Jankowski and get... nothing. Instead they just give up and don't trade him? Or Derek Ryan, by God you can't tell me that man wasn't going to get a 3rd or more at the deadline with what he would bring to a playoff team. Or Giordano, or letting Hathaway walk away for, what's in my eyes a reasonable contract after pouring all the resources in on developing him and getting him to this level for Washington to benefit from.


Then you look at what the Flames have today, and the gaps those guys leaving has been filled with either FA's or pick trades (Lucic not-withstanding). The Flames in recent times have shown no ability to understand when to cut ties with players and when to aggressively pursue trades, or rather when to aggressively pursue a trade after indicating to a player you're going to trade them. To me it shows an absolute lack of vision on the part of Treliving. It's cool to nickle and dime and get good deals on RFA's, but when the results of that are just bleeding assets? It's just inexcuseable. You just downright need to make trades to improve your team, and ever since the Flames caught lightning in a bottle Treliving has gone silent in that front, making lateral moves for the bottom 6 and signing big contracts for his adds.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He’s so dumb lol

 

[deleted user]

Of course he falls short yet again. I'm glad, that moron just about gave up Tkachuk. "Not on the table." Pffft, my ass.

 

[DFF]

Of course he falls short yet again. I'm glad, that moron just about gave up Tkachuk. "Not on the table." Pffft, my ass.

Tkachuk is going to make a fool of him soon…

But he may not be around to see it if we check out early again

 

[Anglesmith]

I think the criticism of Treliving is valid in some ways, but I also think he's gotten extremely unlucky in many cases and that people ignoring such factors are being a bit unfair.

In this last example, he was competing against a team who just happened to have an injury put a player and contract on LTIR. Any offer we made would have required salary to go back to Buffalo, whereas our competitor just happened to not have that problem. The playing field was not level here.

Also, similar to the Stone trade, it appears that the GM just fell in love with one particular prospect, and it wasn't ours.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I think the criticism of Treliving is valid in some ways, but I also think he's gotten extremely unlucky in many cases and that people ignoring such factors are being a bit unfair.

In this last example, he was competing against a team who just happened to have an injury put a player and contract on LTIR. Any offer we made would have required salary to go back to Buffalo, whereas our competitor just happened to not have that problem. The playing field was not level here.

Also, similar to the Stone trade, it appears that the GM just fell in love with one particular prospect, and it wasn't ours.

If his teams hadn't consistently underperformed he would probably get the benefit of the doubt, I think it's totally fair to criticize our lack cap space while we have over 11 million in 3 guys lucic, Zadorov, Gudbranson that he brought all 3 in. You can say he was unlucky that Vegas could use LTIR to create cap space but that's only half the story as we needed to create cap space because of his moves up to this point.

 

[Fig]

Can some of you do a quick review of the Adam fox thread and the Carolina trade thread before you embarass yourselves with ecidence of revisionist history? I remember one flames poster think fox was worth more than a second. He felt fox was worth a mid first, but even then I think that poster felt fox was top pairing (2/3D) and not a bona fide #1.

Can some of you also do some review of our 2014 prospect pool, futures a s NHL roster talent and explain how Treliving bled more talent than acquired? I'd argue Treliving did a fastastic job accumulating assets even with a few flubs, but his bigger issue is perhaps combining them into a superstar (vs lucking into one). Furthermore, if a ton of you take a look at his trades, the vast majority of players he traded at their peak value. He got great values when he acquired RFA rights and put in the extensions himself.

He broke through the buyout restriction. Still waiting on salary retention.

It's fine you don't like Treliving. It's fine you want him fired. But dammit, some of you gotta stop making shit up and at least give the man the credit he's due.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Can some of you do a quick review of the Adam fox thread and the Carolina trade thread before you embarass yourselves with ecidence of revisionist history? I remember one flames poster think fox was worth more than a second. He felt fox was worth a mid first, but even then I think that poster felt fox was top pairing (2/3D) and not a bona fide #1.

Can some of you also do some review of our 2014 prospect pool, futures a s NHL roster talent and explain how Treliving bled more talent than acquired? I'd argue Treliving did a fastastic job accumulating assets even with a few flubs, but his bigger issue is perhaps combining them into a superstar (vs lucking into one). Furthermore, if a ton of you take a look at his trades, the vast majority of players he traded at their peak value. He got great values when he acquired RFA rights and put in the extensions himself.

He broke through the buyout restriction. Still waiting on salary retention.

It's fine you don't like Treliving. It's fine you want him fired. But dammit, some of you gotta stop making shit up and at least give the man the credit he's due.

I get what you're trying to say and I personally don't blame him for trading Fox he wasn't going to sign here. But ultimately at the end of the day this is a results oriented business and we are closing in on a decade with only 1 playoff series win in which the coach of that team he didn't hire and the vast majority of the team was brought in before him. There just isn't enough accomplishments under Treliving to justify continuing to give him more rope

 

[Anglesmith]

I get what you're trying to say and I personally don't blame him for trading Fox he wasn't going to sign here. But ultimately at the end of the day this is a results oriented business and we are closing in on a decade with only 1 playoff series win in which the coach of that team he didn't hire and the vast majority of the team was brought in before him. There just isn't enough accomplishments under Treliving to justify continuing to give him more rope

In terms of coaching, I think that from what I can tell, Treliving actually deserves credit for pushing ownership to bankroll an elite coach.

 

[TheHudlinator]

In terms of coaching, I think that from what I can tell, Treliving actually deserves credit for pushing ownership to bankroll an elite coach.

By wasting 6 years on bad coaches? By that logic I think Sutter deserves a lot of credit as GM because he forced a rebuild by leaving 0 talent on the roster?

Jay f***ing Feaster hired a better coach once than Treliving did 3 times and I think the only reason we got Sutter is ownership trusted him and picked him more than tre did

 

[Fig]

I get what you're trying to say and I personally don't blame him for trading Fox he wasn't going to sign here. But ultimately at the end of the day this is a results oriented business and we are closing in on a decade with only 1 playoff series win in which the coach of that team he didn't hire and the vast majority of the team was brought in before him. There just isn't enough accomplishments under Treliving to justify continuing to give him more rope

I not against lynching him. I'm literally saying to Lynch him for his actual crimes and not for something he didn't actually do. There's more than enough that's fair to go at him for without making up stories. It's also a bad look as a fan base if a bunch of yall can't even pick low hanging fruit to use against him and instead go with false accusations. That's like, the anti-homer and I'm not even sure Oiler fans stoop that low.

The Fox top pairing comments are crazy. His stock kept rising after we drafted and traded him, but even by the time he got to the Rangers, no one thought he was a bona fide #1D.

I get your point about results, that's fair, but then I'll ask about whether you think Wilson and Poile are failures. Treliving if he was gone today leaves the Flames org in significant better condition than he found it in. Yes, he didn't get the high end results we wanted, but it's not like he took the org in the opposite direction of how he found it as many imply.

Again, Lynch the man for what he actually got wrong, not for something that literally never happened.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I not against lynching him. I'm literally saying to Lynch him for his actual crimes and not for something he didn't actually do. There's more than enough that's fair to go at him for without making up stories. It's also a bad look as a fan base if a bunch of yall can't even pick low hanging fruit to use against him and instead go with false accusations. That's like, the anti-homer and I'm not even sure Oiler fans stoop that low.

The Fox top pairing comments are crazy. His stock kept rising after we drafted and traded him, but even by the time he got to the Rangers, no one thought he was a bona fide #1D.

I get your point about results, that's fair, but then I'll ask about whether you think Wilson and Poile are failures. Treliving if he was gone today leaves the Flames org in significant better condition than he found it in. Yes, he didn't get the high end results we wanted, but it's not like he took the org in the opposite direction of how he found it as many imply.

Again, Lynch the man for what he actually got wrong, not for something that literally never happened.

I would agree the team is in a better spot now than when he got here but he had 2 top 6 picks including the highest pick in franchise history. The best player on the team isn't here because of him he just had to sign him. Simply put it should be in a better spot. It'd be like hiring a plumber who takes 10x the length to fix your leak due to his mistakes and then claims your house is better than when I got here, while true it doesn't actually say anything about the quality of the work.

 

[Anglesmith]

By wasting 6 years on bad coaches? By that logic I think Sutter deserves a lot of credit as GM because he forced a rebuild by leaving 0 talent on the roster?

Jay f***ing Feaster hired a better coach once than Treliving did 3 times and I think the only reason we got Sutter is ownership trusted him and picked him more than tre did

No, because the word has always been that ownership were only allowing him to hire cheap coaches.

 

[TheHudlinator]

No, because the word has always been that ownership were only allowing him to hire cheap coaches.

So then why fire Hartley who actually had success here?

 

[Fig]

I would agree the team is in a better spot now than when he got here but he had 2 top 6 picks including the highest pick in franchise history. The best player on the team isn't here because of him he just had to sign him. Simply put it should be in a better spot. It'd be like hiring a plumber who takes 10x the length to fix your leak due to his mistakes and then claims your house is better than when I got here, while true it doesn't actually say anything about the quality of the work.

Lol. Good metaphor, poor interpretation of the situation.

Treliving showed up and inherited Feaster/Weisbrod handiwork. He also inherited Burke's drafting. He walked in with a roster that had Matt "1C" Stajan, sophomore Monahan, pre mesh injury Backlund. His best prospect was supposed to be Baertschi who flubbed his spot to rookie Gaudreau. Other guys he had were sieloff, Janko, Klimchuk, TSpoon and Poirier. This was already a disaster and we were favourites in the Connor mcdavid sweep stakes while the Oilers were turning the corner to be the contender for playoffs. What happened? Ownership playoff mandate.

Treliving came from Arizona as a rookie gm. Proper rebuild was more likely his MO than take a horrific rebuild roster and playoff mandate his way out of a crap situation. That's easily ownership mandate IMO.

Plumber metaphor wise, he showed up to a wrecked house. He got to the spot he needed to fix, and the owner asked him to delay doing ing stuff for a little bit while they let a burst pipe do more damage. We're also talking stuff like Burke stood in the sink and it fell out. Finally, they handed him an incomplete set of crappy power tools and hand tools and asked him to Reno the whole house that now had extra water damage. Oh, and the supplies he had apparently were mostly unusable (because 2013 and truculence) . So he went along with it, sold what he could of value for a great price (Russell, hudler, Glencross etc) and started working on the daunting task of renovating the entire home instead of knocking it down and getting an infill put in.

He's making surprisingly good progress and even gets to the point over successfully overhauling his training program to provide lots of needed skill to his work force then BAM, one of his employees sends an inspector to the hospital putting road blocks in him getting the right permits and him progressing. Then his project Manger gets chased out of town for being known for angrily disliking Black and Decker power tools. He thinks he's in the clear and then he's dealing with issues with OHS and WCB. He searches for an employee with a skill he desperately needs. Gets told the guy wants to work on new builds, not Reno's. A few other unlucky things along the way and now we're here.

Yeah he had to work harder and like 10x longer than the average plumber, but he was tasked to repair lots of crap that many others would have elected to completely replace instead and told to general contractor his way out of the situation. That's on the owners, not totally on him.

The better spot should have been being in a spot to draft Eichel or CMD in 2015/new build. Not ploffs mandate then trying to acquire Eichel 6 years later to finish off a Reno that he should not have been asked to attempt in the first place.

So then why fire Hartley who actually had success here?

??? Hartley bombed the season he was fired. Jack Adam's to jack Squat. He then said he felt like adjustments weren't necessary on garbage bag day. After that Tre emergency flew back from Europe (WJC?) to do an emergency meeting to fire Hartley. Some speculated he hoped to land Boudreau. That didn't happen and then we went Gulutzan, Peters and Ward at salary ranges near the bottom of the league for what reason? Same thing happened in a year with 3 superstar coaches, one of which (Gallant) wasn't picked up in favor of interim Ward. There's a huge reason many speculate ownership handcuffed the coaching decision. It doesn't make sense to choose those guys of there's no restrictions on paying a coach.

This on top of salary retention restrictions.

 

[TheHudlinator]

We disagree on literally everything no point in circling the wagons on this one. Nothing I've seen can convince me Treliving isn't on the same level as Jim Benning, below average to mediocre at best and both have had enough time to prove who they are and what they are capable of.

 

[Fig]

We disagree on literally everything no point in circling the wagons on this one. Nothing I've seen can convince me Treliving isn't on the same level as Jim Benning, below average to mediocre at best and both have had enough time to prove who they are and what they are capable of.

Huh? How do we disagree on everything? If anything we agree on the vast majority. We see the same thing and then when things get bad some of you'll emotionally paint everything with a shit brush. I'm saying it ain't as bad as that, but agree I too expect to be further ahead.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Huh? How do we disagree on everything? If anything we agree on the vast majority. We see the same thing and then when things get bad some of you'll emotionally paint everything with a shit brush. I'm saying it ain't as bad as that, but agree I too expect to be further ahead.

You seem to think taking over a team with Gaudreau, Monahan, and having a 4th overall pick and having a decent coach was inheriting a wrecked house which I just fundamentally disagree with in reality he had 2 top 6 centers and a ppg winger to build around and he hasn't been able to successfully do that.

 

[Fig]

You seem to think taking over a team with Gaudreau, Monahan, and having a 4th overall pick and having a decent coach was inheriting a wrecked house which I just fundamentally disagree with in reality he had 2 top 6 centers and a ppg winger to build around and he hasn't been able to successfully do that.

The 2015 team literally was a league wide favorite to draft Connor mcdavid. Why wouldn't that be considered a wrecked foundation to build upon? All teams have assets, but if you are saying two top 6 centres and a ppg winger in Gaudreau, Monahan and Backlund, that's still lacking way too many pieces to immediately build around. That's why many other posters (not just me) deem we excited the rebuild and started retooling too early.

You also forget the lack of supplies in Smith, wotherspoon, Klimchuk, Poirier, Baertschi, sieloff, McDonald, Jankowski, Gilles... Treliving had to rebuild it from scratch. He just got super lucky with guys with less expectations like ferland, Hathaway, bouma reclamation Colborne etc step it up when a ton of the existing first and second rounders and expected graduates all busted the moment he started. The drafting had been excellent after that Burke season. That helps a ton.

The decent coach you spoke about was garbage in his second season and this fired. This is on par with what was deemed the hack Adam's curse and the unsustainable PDO criticism. Consider also that the man games list under Hartley was sky high.

Treliving's failed core could essentially be summarized by many of us as a jack of all trades, master of nothing core. That's a reasonable reason to hate him.

 

[TheHudlinator]

The 2015 team literally was a league wide favorite to draft Connor mcdavid. Why wouldn't that be considered a wrecked foundation to build upon? All teams have assets, but if you are saying two top 6 centres and a ppg winger in Gaudreau, Monahan and Backlund, that's still lacking way too many pieces to immediately build around. That's why many other posters (not just me) deem we excited the rebuild and started retooling too early.

You also forget the lack of supplies in Smith, wotherspoon, Klimchuk, Poirier, Baertschi, sieloff, McDonald, Jankowski, Gilles... Treliving had to rebuild it from scratch. He just got super lucky with guys with less expectations like ferland, Hathaway, bouma reclamation Colborne etc step it up when a ton of the existing first and second rounders and expected graduates all busted the moment he started. The drafting had been excellent after that Burke season. That helps a ton.

The decent coach you spoke about was garbage in his second season and this fired. This is on par with what was deemed the hack Adam's curse and the unsustainable PDO criticism. Consider also that the man games list under Hartley was sky high.

Treliving's failed core could essentially be summarized by many of us as a jack of all trades, master of nothing core. That's a reasonable reason to hate him.

Look at that roster Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Brodie, Gio were all here that's basically the same core as Trelivings entire time here. You're treating a bad team as a bad foundation so if that's the case why did he build around it? The comeback kids had several veterans on career years to say the year after was on Hartley is honestly pretty laughable. Hartley didn't want to change the style he had been playing and seeing as we haven't won a playoff round since then he was probably right. Ironically he got more out Bennett then all of the other Flames coaches combined.


Of the guys from the core that left we have exactly 1 2nd round pick and an okay prospect to show for the loses which is just piss poor asset management.

You're complaining about people rewriting history about Treliving but ignoring that most of his core was already here when he got here, that is ignoring a fair amount of history.

I don't see any point in beating this horse anymore because my feelings about Treliving are pretty clear as are yours. I do agree he has made enough mistakes that we don't need to rewrite history to justify letting him go.