Fire Tocchet #2

[Canis Latrans]

It may just be perception bias, but Tocchet has looked like a passenger on the bench almost every time they've show him. I think he's still doing his "rah-rah" routine, but I don't think he's in charge of much. It looks a lot more like an NFL coaching gig where someone else is coaching and running things, and he is nominally in a managerial role.
I would be fine with that arrangement indefinitely if I thought it could last in the NHL. I don't though.

Full marks to Tocc though for whatever he has agreed to do or not do. Whatever the plan they put in place is, is working.

If he's really the genius behind the improvement, go ahead and lock him up if it is still working later in the season. I was saying even last year that Tocchet was taking too much heat. You can show up and work hard in the playoffs for anyone, even if they aren't a good coach or manager. Time to play for pride, and the players didn't have any. Noone was getting much more out of that group. He was clearly A Problem, not The Problem as so many wanted to paint him.

Based on BA's comments and history, I'd say the direction to play young guys through their challenges comes straight from the top. History also says Tocc hasn't been great at adjustments, getting sustained effort, etc. so I expect there are some heavy undercurrents under the surface.

It's also only been a dozen games. We've seen good spurts before and watched it all fall apart. The offense looks more dangerous, and we don't rely solely on the rush to generate it like we have for a decade. Definitely some encouraging signs!

To just posit a possible defense for Tocchet here, it's possible he made a mistake on his assistant hirings, but couldn't do anything about it until the offseason, and instead took too much onto his own plate in terms of broadly coaching the team. Maybe, say he wasn't happy with how the powerplay was going, so he meddled too much in that, but as head coach, he couldn't put enough in to actually fix it, and now he's lost valuable time for working out how to fix the transition game. Too much of that because you can't rely on good assistants and now nothing goes right. I don't actually think that was the case, but it's possible he's better now because of the new assistants allowing him to refocus on what is reasonable under his own control. Also, frankly, he's probably improved, and whether he's with the Coyotes for much longer, he's probably going to be a better coach than in the past.

 

[RemoAZ]

To just posit a possible defense for Tocchet here, it's possible he made a mistake on his assistant hirings, but couldn't do anything about it until the offseason, and instead took too much onto his own plate in terms of broadly coaching the team. Maybe, say he wasn't happy with how the powerplay was going, so he meddled too much in that, but as head coach, he couldn't put enough in to actually fix it, and now he's lost valuable time for working out how to fix the transition game. Too much of that because you can't rely on good assistants and now nothing goes right. I don't actually think that was the case, but it's possible he's better now because of the new assistants allowing him to refocus on what is reasonable under his own control. Also, frankly, he's probably improved, and whether he's with the Coyotes for much longer, he's probably going to be a better coach than in the past.

I agree it's possible he needs a strong GM and strong assistants to win. He had a fanboy GM and buddies before. That's not a winning recipe. The question will be if this is true, has he learned enough to be a better coach when he ultimately loses an assistant or two? Hopefully Armstrong makes the right call there and promotes one of the assistants if Tocc can't win without them.

 

[PainForShane]

To just posit a possible defense for Tocchet here, it's possible he made a mistake on his assistant hirings, but couldn't do anything about it until the offseason, and instead took too much onto his own plate in terms of broadly coaching the team. Maybe, say he wasn't happy with how the powerplay was going, so he meddled too much in that, but as head coach, he couldn't put enough in to actually fix it, and now he's lost valuable time for working out how to fix the transition game. Too much of that because you can't rely on good assistants and now nothing goes right. I don't actually think that was the case, but it's possible he's better now because of the new assistants allowing him to refocus on what is reasonable under his own control. Also, frankly, he's probably improved, and whether he's with the Coyotes for much longer, he's probably going to be a better coach than in the past.

I don't know Canis... I mean, no strong opinion either way but the thing that drove me nuts about Tocc was his press conferences. He would get basic questions like, "it's been a year since you've scored a 6-5 goal why do you think that is?" and he would say things like, "I don't know. We've been working on this for the past 2 years and I don't want to talk about it." He did this after almost every loss, he had no answers for anything.

Based on those pressers (I heard every one of the home ones for the past 3 years, kept Luke Lapinski on the radio on the way home), I honestly don't think Tocc has anything to do with our improved offense, and likely doesn't fully understand tactical x's and o's (otherwise would've had better answers). Imo all of our improved systems are due to his assistants, without being behind the bench / in the room no way to know with certainty but that's my theory

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Tocchets press conferences have been a lot different than last year. He's much calmer. He's at the same level win or lose.

Pure speculation, could be nothing but a couple theories I have...

I wonder if he knows it's his last season here, and Varady is set to replace him. Enjoying one last ride as HC in AZ?

Or maybe it's a new and improved Tocchet. Maybe he's improved as a coach and is less emotional. Maybe COVID has changed his outlook on life. Personally I've seen a shift in how people have been carrying themselves lately. Or maybe a combination of both.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree it's possible he needs a strong GM and strong assistants to win. He had a fanboy GM and buddies before. That's not a winning recipe. The question will be if this is true, has he learned enough to be a better coach when he ultimately loses an assistant or two? Hopefully Armstrong makes the right call there and promotes one of the assistants if Tocc can't win without them.

I would say the play of the team right now is the maturity and consistency of the players more than coaching. Once the inconsistency creeps back into their game, and it will, we will hit a tough patch. I do think Vardy and Stillman have had a positive impact on the team, but how much I don't know. I also think it has nothing to do with RT. Remember, he had Fischer and Stepan on the PP1, gave Stepan more TOI than any forward AND gave Garland limited TOI until Hall arrived, and also did not play Hayton last year. My opinion of course, but I don't want RT as coach next year.

 

[cobra427]

I would say the play of the team right now is the maturity and consistency of the players more than coaching. Once the inconsistency creeps back into their game, and it will, we will hit a tough patch. I do think Vardy and Stillman have had a positive impact on the team, but how much I don't know. I also think it has nothing to do with RT. Remember, he had Fischer and Stepan on the PP1, gave Stepan more TOI than any forward AND gave Garland limited TOI until Hall arrived, and also did not play Hayton last year. My opinion of course, but I don't want RT as coach next year.

I don't think it is RT either. I think the playoff experience last year is helping our young players and they are maturing before our eyes. So far this year, Garland/Schmaltz/Keller/DVO/Chych have all stepped up. I think it is just time, experience and maturity. It will be interesting to see if OEL comes to life when her returns as well.

PS: Your boy Stepan was traded (horse is dead from beating)

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think Tocchet's strength is in one-on-one coaching and communicating that way.

However, I don't believe or I don't know if that translates well as a big picture Xs and Os guy for all 5 players on the ice. Think about what was said regarding him being the "Kessel whisperer."

Some people are great in singular conversations, but get them in front of a group, and they look questionable. His assistant hires were meant to translate the Xs and Os, but as was mentioned, those assistants did not have much success (thinking Housley).

That also makes sense as to why his interview looks good (great at making the points one-on-one to Chayka), but if he had to give that presentation to 7 people in a room, maybe it looks less effective

 

[Jamieh]

You fellas should really check out Dreger on Overdrive today in regards to Tocchet. I can't wait to hear from some here.

 

[rt]

You fellas should really check out Dreger on Overdrive today in regards to Tocchet. I can't wait to hear from some here.

link?

 

[Jamieh]

Whoops. Hopefully you can listen in the US??

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

So basically Dreger thinks that Tocchet isn't going to resign, but move on to another club and there will be multiple suitors out there that would want him as a coach.

Haha - Excellent, let him go, we'll take Varady & Stillman and call it good! He can take Housley with him.

 

[Jamieh]

So basically Dreger thinks that Tocchet isn't going to resign, but move on to another club and there will be multiple suitors out there that would want him as a coach.

Haha - Excellent, let him go, we'll take Varady & Stillman and call it good! He can take Housley with him.

He's earned it!!!! HTF did Tochett earn it? Abd the most in demand free agent Coach.

 

[Muppet]

"I think Rick Tocchet might be the most sought-after free agent coach in the league" Congratulations to Darren Dreger for confirming he hasn't watched a single Coyotes game over the last 3 years.

I wonder if it's more a "You can't fire me, I quit" situation with Tocc because BA told him he's not getting extended.

 

[Canis Latrans]

He's earned it!!!! HTF did Tochett earn it? Abd the most in demand free agent Coach.

You know what'll happen. We'll move on, he'll go wherever and the media will hype him up while he has the same issues that will be excused away with the Coyotes not being able to provide him with a proper environment - maybe only true for half of his tenure here, all the while attributing whatever success is then had here to what he put in place rather than whoever takes over just improving on it.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Huh? What has Tocchet done to earn it? He set a record for most games without a win. Took a 1st place team that added Taylor Hall to missing the playoffs. Yah we "made the playoffs" but our record didn't reflect that.

The only impressive thing he's done was nearly getting us into the playoffs in 18/19 with a squad of injury replacements that were 4th line, AHL level.

I credit this season more to Varady/Stillman who weren't his hires.

 

[rt]

Whoops. Hopefully you can listen in the US??

Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! Oh please!

 

[rt]

^ Joking aside, that's a great point Dreger made about Tocchet and Francis. It would be great for us if Tocchet got a big fat payday in Seattle, and we had to be "forced" to "cheap out" on some "unknown" like Varady. And as @Dr VinnyBoombatz said, hopefully he takes Housely with him! Francis with Tocchet and Housely? I could see it! Give me Varady with Stillman and Scotty Allen any day!!! It'd be the cheapest staff in the league but the best one we've had in nearly a decade! LOL

 

[Mosby]

Seattle should just hire Gallant and not overthink this.

 

[rt]

Choose:

A.
HC-Tocchet
AC-Housley
AC-Varady
AC-Stillman

B.
HC-Varady
AC-Stillman
AC-Slaney

^ I’m going B.

 

[Mosby]

B but an older experienced guy in place of Slaney. Like the NYR with Jacques Martin.

 

[Jakey53]

Whoops. Hopefully you can listen in the US??

All I can say is "don't let the door hit you on the way out". Promoting Vardy and bringing in Stillman makes more sense now. I would imagine BA and RT have talked and maybe RT's ask is more than BA is willing to give.

 

[Mosby]

Had to main board this given its absurdity.

I give it five posts before we see lame ass gambling jokes.

 

[_Del_]

Made it all the way to post #20.

 

[RemoAZ]

Had to main board this given its absurdity.

I give it five posts before we see lame ass gambling jokes.

The genius of John Chayka
Tocchet spent one season as an assistant to Coyotes coach Wayne Gretzky in 2005-06 and played parts of three seasons with the team from 1997 to 2000.
Tocchet's controversial departure from his Coyotes coaching job did not figure into the decision to hire him, general manager John Chayka said.
"Rick was the best candidate by a wide margin," Chayka said.

 

[SniperHF]

TBH I don't think anyone around the league really cares about that whole thing anymore. Tocc went on to two jobs with the Lightning and Penguins and rehabbed his career. That was a long time ago and nothing has happened since.