Fire Tocchet #2

[Prarievarg]

No. This is by far the must unified I’ve seen this sub forum on any given topic in my 16 years of posting here.

I mean if 93% (probably higher, I don't recognize the no's) of us believe he's a bad coach/fit/whatever there must be something to it, and management has to see it too.

I understand Meruelo not wanting to pay two head coaches and therefore we're stuck with RT for this season. But I don't see a reason why BA would extend him?

 

[BUX7PHX]

I give it 20 games. I think that by that time, we will know exactly where and how things stand.

I would just give Varady the reins in a lame duck year. If the AHL is limited in their season, all the more reason to have Varady assume the role for the remaining games. I think we may move him back to the AHL afterward, but if there is some improvement, who is to say that we don't try to add someone who maybe has coached with Varady before and move him to an assistant role...

 

[Grimes]

No. This is by far the must unified I’ve seen this sub forum on any given topic in my 16 years of posting here.

And yet the most adverse to a glaring issue I have seen the front office.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

No. This is by far the must unified I’ve seen this sub forum on any given topic in my 16 years of posting here.

Todd Walsh?

Edit: Forgot there was a poll to this thread, never had a Walsh poll, that I recall.

 

[rt]

Todd Walsh?

Edit: Forgot there was a poll to this thread, never had a Walsh poll, that I recall.

Great point! He sucks!

 

[Jormungandr]

I wish someone would show Rick Tocchet this poll.

 

[rt]

Is it possible to hire a forwards and PP coach that’s so damn good at his job that he can mitigate a lot of what’s wrong with Tocchet? Any chance of that?

I mean, MacLean was OBVIOUSLY also a big problem. And he’s gone now. Any chance Bruce Boudreau is desperate enough? And recognizes Tocchet is on thin enough ice? Team could be his within 25 games next season.

 

[XX]

I wish someone would show Rick Tocchet this poll.

He'd shrug and put Kessel-Stepan-Goligoski out in OT, thinking he's a genius.

 

[TheLegend]

Todd Walsh?

Edit: Forgot there was a poll to this thread, never had a Walsh poll, that I recall.

Because nobody wants a forum ban.....

Besides...

 

[Jakey53]

I wish someone would show Rick Tocchet this poll.

Hope that person can run fast.

 

[Name Nameless]

I wish someone would show Rick Tocchet this poll.

Just make sure you hire a coach Kessel hates so much, he would wave for any team.

 

[rt]

Just make sure you hire a coach Kessel hates so much, he would wave for any team.

If Phil shows up to camp out of shape and not ready to compete, I would not be shocked if he’s among the first round of cuts that are assigned to the AHL.

With Rick Tocchet on an expiring contract is he going to tell his new boss that his drinking buddy Phil should get a free pass? Not a chance.

 

[Jamieh]

If Phil shows up to camp out of shape and not ready to compete, I would not be shocked if he’s among the first round of cuts that are assigned to the AHL.

With Rick Tocchet on an expiring contract is he going to tell his new boss that his drinking buddy Phil should get a free pass? Not a chance.

Doesn't Kessel's NMC mean he cannot be sent to minors?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Doesn't Kessel's NMC mean he cannot be sent to minors?

Yes.

 

[rt]

Yes.

I’ve never even thought about a player having both an NMC and a NTC. I knew Phil had a compulsory list to submit in seasons past. I assumed that precluded the possibility of a NMC but I see that capfriendly shows both. So what the hell us this? A player can get a NMC that applies holistically, but then there is a NTC mitigation that requires a list of teams each year? Essentially requiring protection in an expansion draft and the waiver wire? Can’t draft me, can’t waive me and can’t trade me except to these teams?

Damn. I don’t know that existed. I knew I’d full NMCs and then NTCs or varying limitations. Never noticed they could be used in conjunction.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Damn. I don’t know that existed. I knew I’d full NMCs and then NTCs or varying limitations. Never noticed they could be used in conjunction.

It's all in how you negotiate, I suppose. I don't know all of the ins and outs of each clause anymore (I gave up CBA Studies 101 ), but apparently you can negotiate multiple clauses - perhaps he got the NMC in exchange for only having a modified NTC rather than a full NTC.

At any rate, we can thank the 2013 Toronto Maple Leafs for having to deal with that.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Is it possible to hire a forwards and PP coach that’s so damn good at his job that he can mitigate a lot of what’s wrong with Tocchet? Any chance of that?

I mean, MacLean was OBVIOUSLY also a big problem. And he’s gone now. Any chance Bruce Boudreau is desperate enough? And recognizes Tocchet is on thin enough ice? Team could be his within 25 games next season.

BB smoking his cigs and dropping f-bombs is so anti-2020.....and so much of what this team needs.

 

[rt]

Filter for the last three seasons. Coyotes are the worst. This is coaching. This is systems. This is objective proof of an inept coaching staff.

 

[Name Nameless]

Filter for the last three seasons. Coyotes are the worst. This is coaching. This is systems. This is objective proof of an inept coaching staff.

I don't need objective proof to be on the fire Tocchet-wagon, but it doesn't hurt.

 

[XX]

Filter for the last three seasons. Coyotes are the worst. This is coaching. This is systems. This is objective proof of an inept coaching staff.

I mentioned the Avs were the best team to counter the Coyotes given their penchant for being able to carry the puck up the ice with ease, completely nullifying Tocchet's peewee 'system'. No surprise they were the best at this mathematically in 19-20 (and the best team in the league 5v5 as a result).

The Predators carried the play 5v5 but they had rotten luck.

Shame the team is still stuck with this clown. Have to hope Stillman is a miracle worker.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Filter for the last three seasons. Coyotes are the worst. This is coaching. This is systems. This is objective proof of an inept coaching staff.

I don't doubt this is accurate, but his data for the Coyotes usually tends to be under 10 games of data per season. Really lends credence to the idea that the system is to just give the puck to the few capable players and hope they convert.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I mentioned the Avs were the best team to counter the Coyotes given their penchant for being able to carry the puck up the ice with ease, completely nullifying Tocchet's peewee 'system'. No surprise they were the best at this mathematically in 19-20 (and the best team in the league 5v5 as a result).

The Predators carried the play 5v5 but they had rotten luck.

Shame the team is still stuck with this clown. Have to hope Stillman is a miracle worker.

Assuming the sample size us good, this looks like the Avalanche just rely on talent to carry the puck out of one zone and into the other without making passes to do so surprisingly often. That might be partly to explain why they couldn't get past a disciplined Stars team.

Furthermore, the Coyotes look OK at getting into the zone, but aren't doing so via pass, another knock on there being no real system or adjustments. Then, when you look at zone exits, zone of pain is so very apt, as they can't even clear it off the glass let alone make a pass or skate it out. On the bright side, perhaps fixing exits just slightly more would result in that, dare I say, respectable, entry rate upping the raw number of entries because of sheer quantity of increased attempts no longer never having a chance to ever come into existence.

I've rambled on this before, but I think you can't necessarily infer that the offense these players are producing is entirely due to their own poor play. I think the system is so poor at putting them in a position to produce that there numbers are just so low due to never getting to play offense.

If my memory is correct, a number of players have reasonable rates, but with so few chances, that doesn't amount to much. I think Keller is the biggest sufferer from this.

One final point on having so few chances - one can imagine finally getting close to a decent chance and then just immediately squandering it because who knows when it'll happen again, whereas on high offense teams, those are like candy and you can afford to wait for a higher probability shot.

 

[AZviaNJ]

It's only 7 games but guessing the 90% Fire Tochett poll number has only increased.

Assuming he won't be brought back, why not fire him after 25-30 games (or sooner) and test Varady or Stillman in the HC role the balance of the year? What's the risk?

 

[Mosby]

If we get shut out versus the Ducks again, now would be a good time as the next game isn't until next Tuesday.

 

[XX]

If we get shut out versus the Ducks again, now would be a good time as the next game isn't until next Tuesday.

I think that's way too early for BA and his braintrust. I think they hang on to Tocchet for as long as possible.

They may take exception to someone like Hayton being inexplicably benched when Caggiula is out there turning over pucks in the dzone. Probably the dumbest ingame adjustment made this year so far.