Fire Ken Holland

[GOilers88]

They are at least a decent goalie away from being a bonafide playoff team. Missing the playoffs this year should be unacceptable.

And if after the remaining 40 games are played and we miss, I'll concede.

Until then I think you're just typically writing off a season way before it's even remotely a possibility. The thought the Oilers are going to be the only team that hits rough patches this year while everyone else and their Vezina goaltending only get better makes me laugh.

 

[GOilers88]

Their record would be 11-6 minimum with Kuemper here. That's easily in contention for 2nd best in the division.

He went cheap on goaltending and it's costing the team massively.

No, that's just your assumption. I'm not saying I think it's way off but your just making something up and running with it.

 

[Beerfish]

I didn't realise we missed the playoffs this year.

We did miss the playoffs.

"Play in round'

In which we lost to a much worse team due to goaltending....which the GM failed to fix this year with very predictable results.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And if after the remaining 40 games are played and we miss, I'll concede.

Until then I think you're just typically writing off a season way before it's even remotely a possibility. The thought the Oilers are going to be the only team that hits rough patches this year while everyone else and their Vezina goaltending only get better makes me laugh.

When you have the second worst goaltending in the division every game is an uphill battle. Another rough patch for our team and the season might be lost. It’s difficult to gain ground because everyone is getting points. Losing against the Flames and Jets hurts immensely.

 

[Soundwave]

And if after the remaining 40 games are played and we miss, I'll concede.

Until then I think you're just typically writing off a season way before it's even remotely a possibility. The thought the Oilers are going to be the only team that hits rough patches this year while everyone else and their Vezina goaltending only get better makes me laugh.

Points pissed away now count the same as months from now. We should not be in this spot to begin with we should be competing for top spot in the division instead of praying Koskinen and 38 year old bail out Holland by eventually playing over their heads.

 

[GOilers88]

Points pissed away now count the same as months from now. We should not be in this spot to begin with we should be competing for top spot in the division instead of praying Koskinen and 38 year old bail out Holland by eventually playing over their heads.

I'm aware. You did this last year too around November and all through December.

I'll see myself out and watch the season play out again. Enjoy your misery.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm aware. You did this last year too around November and all through December.

I'll see myself out and watch the season play out again. Enjoy your misery.

My attitude or yours has no bearing on game results hate to break it to you. Who we have in net actually does.

 

[GOilers88]

We did miss the playoffs.

"Play in round'

In which we lost to a much worse team due to goaltending....which the GM failed to fix this year with very predictable results.

Yeah I'm f***ing sick of hearing about 4 play in games. I wish the team had finished last in the league instead of having a good season forgotten because of 4 bad games in a once in a lifetime covid cup that saw the Vancouver f***ing Canucks take out the defending Champions, and Wild, and take VGK to 7. Cause that's a real good indicator of anything.

Team goes from 25th to 9th, two seasons under .500 to 12 games above .500 and we're trying to act like somehow the guy behind that is an abject failure. Okay then.

 

[GOilers88]

I'm kind of on your side of the argument with the other stuff but Kuemper absolutely makes them a contender to make it to the Western Conference Finals.

I mean I can't say I truly disagree. But I'd be lying if I didn't have a part of me that truly believes we could trade anything for a starting tender and he would go on to underperform too.

 

[DropTheGloves]

1. The Green trade was just a bad luck result because the pandemic shut everything down. The whole purpose of it was to bring in experienced depth to help gear up for what we were expecting to be a final push for the playoffs and try to go on a run and do some damage. When the world shut down Green decided to retire and we were out a late draft pick.....big whoop.

Excusing the fact that most reasonable people knew the world was headed for a shutdown so COVID should not have surprised him, Green looked done in the games he did play, and Holland was in the best position to know what he was (not) getting as his former GM. It was "only" a pick, but it just contributes to the death by a thousand cuts that Holland has doled out since he's been here.

2. AA trade, there is plenty of room of criticism here and the trade has been dissected beyond nauseum on these boards for months. It was a gamble that turned into a swing and a miss. Holland was bright enough to see the trade didn't workout as planned, and instead of doubling down and caving into signing a bad contract, Holland cut him lose and used that money to sign a better fit in Tyson Barrie.

But Holland apparently wasn't bright enough to know what AA's flaws were after, again, being the GM when he played for Detroit. Not only that, but Ken was the one who had to deal with his contract grubbery the first time. Why did he think it would be any easier a second time? Along with the goalie waiver debacle, it paints a picture of someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes- probably the worst trait any executive could have.

3. While it was less than exciting that we have the exact same goaltending dual as last season, it clearly wasn't Holland's first choice to re-sign Smith. Its been reported numerous that Holland was contacting almost every other goalie out there to try to sign here, but we still didn't have enough wiggle room under the cap as they all signed elsewhere mainly for more dollars (or just retire instead in Jimmy Howard's case).

I wish I was only looking for a move in net for "excitement" purposes. In reality, it's the most important position on the team. Looking at his tenure to date, Holland has had nearly two years since he was brought on to realize the goaltending is an issue and subsequently fix it. I can understand not being able to navigate the market for an immediate solution in Year 1, but this last off-season? Absolutely zero excuse. He needed to make a move- either by paying to move a contract so Markstrom would fit, not signing the depth pieces he did, or finding a salary in/out trade. He doesn't get a pass here. It was or should've been his main priority and he failed to address it.

One knock i will hold against Holland is waiving Forsberg. That situation has costed the team a few games already, so on this front, I agree Holland deserves the flack, but it's not something to fire him over.

...and then he did it again with Grosenick. Again, that's the fireable part to me- he didn't learn from the first time. That's a fatal flaw in any executive in any industry.

4. We knew when Holland came here it was going to be a tough 2 seasons at least because of how cap strapped the team was when he showed up. But to his credit he has filled the roster out with more player depth than any other season (outside of 06) than what I've seen the Oilers bolster already in the time I've been alive as an Oilers fan (I'm too young to have experienced the cup winning teams). It's this up coming offseason that we'll see what Holland can really do as there'll finally be cap space to bolster the line up with some badly needed upgrades. If he fails at that, then I'll be on board the fire Holland train. But we aren't there yet, so relax a bit. The team is not a terrible team, it's a playoff bubble team. Let's see what happens by the deadline

But ultimately "player depth" doesn't matter when you start almost every game down 1-0. I also can't give him a pass on cap space because ultimately he chose to sign Kassian to the extension he did, which is already handicapping us. Holland has done very little to move this team forward, and outside of a dead cat bounce last year (that even Chiarelli accomplished) we're back to what we were pre-Holland: a glaringly flawed team with obvious needs that the GM doesn't have the wiles to fix and the coach is too stubborn to get much more from. Something has to give here.

 

[Aceboogie]

Hollands inability to make improvements in goal this offseason will haunt the Oilers this year and likely next. These are McDrais likely career year(s) and we will likely never have the same strength of roster going forward (who knows what happens with RNH, Nurse will get a big increase, expansion draft etc)

Its not that he had to go out big game hunting and land Carey Price. But he NEEDED to make an improvement. And its not really that hard, our goaltending was clear league-worst with Smith not being an NHL caliber goalie. It could have been any of the .905-.915 #1B goalies that were moved around. But instead he sat on his thumbs and willingly went with Smith after he missed out on Markstrom (whom I am glad we didnt give that albatross contract)

Ill also say that the Tippett hiring probably wasnt the best for the currnet make up of the team. Tippett loves his vets and is very tough on young players that was always his downfall. Unfortunately, we do not have good vets, and our young players are pretty promising. Tippett is likely a good coach in the right setting, but this aint it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Hollands inability to make improvements in goal this offseason will haunt the Oilers this year and likely next. These are McDrais likely career year(s) and we will likely never have the same strength of roster going forward (who knows what happens with RNH, Nurse will get a big increase, expansion draft etc)

Its not that he had to go out big game hunting and land Carey Price. But he NEEDED to make an improvement. And its not really that hard, our goaltending was clear league-worst with Smith not being an NHL caliber goalie. It could have been any of the .905-.915 #1B goalies that were moved around. But instead he sat on his thumbs and willingly went with Smith after he missed out on Markstrom (whom I am glad we didnt give that albatross contract)

keeping the same uneven goalie tandem has been a massive blunder
then losing Forsberg to waivers stung really bad too
Oilers have the 3rd worst goaltending in the division and could end up meaning they miss the playoffs...but too early for that

Ill also say that the Tippett hiring probably wasnt the best for the currnet make up of the team. Tippett loves his vets and is very tough on young players that was always his downfall. Unfortunately, we do not have good vets, and our young players are pretty promising. Tippett is likely a good coach in the right setting, but this aint it.

Bear, Yamamoto, Jones Puljujarvi and now Bouchard and Lagesson have all thrived under Tippett..disagree here

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Hollands inability to make improvements in goal this offseason will haunt the Oilers this year and likely next. These are McDrais likely career year(s) and we will likely never have the same strength of roster going forward (who knows what happens with RNH, Nurse will get a big increase, expansion draft etc)

Its not that he had to go out big game hunting and land Carey Price. But he NEEDED to make an improvement. And its not really that hard, our goaltending was clear league-worst with Smith not being an NHL caliber goalie. It could have been any of the .905-.915 #1B goalies that were moved around. But instead he sat on his thumbs and willingly went with Smith after he missed out on Markstrom (whom I am glad we didnt give that albatross contract)

Ill also say that the Tippett hiring probably wasnt the best for the currnet make up of the team. Tippett loves his vets and is very tough on young players that was always his downfall. Unfortunately, we do not have good vets, and our young players are pretty promising. Tippett is likely a good coach in the right setting, but this aint it.

Tippett loves his vets so much that bouchard is now getting the third most time at even strength.
All coaches love players they can trust, this isn’t a concept isolated to tippett

 

[Aceboogie]

keeping the same uneven goalie tandem has been a massive blunder
then losing Forsberg to waivers stung really bad too
Oilers have the 3rd worst goaltending in the division and could end up meaning they miss the playoffs...but too early for that


Bear, Yamamoto, Jones Puljujarvi and now Bouchard and Lagesson have all thrived under Tippett..disagree here

Dont really have a comparable for Bear/Yamamoto/Bouchard. Disagree massively with Jones, this is a guy with some pretty amazing underlying numbers who is super promising and continues to watch from the press box as Kris Russell and Adam Larsson continue to suck

It also took JP like 10 games to even get an audition on the top line, and he had to play absolutely lights out in the bottom 6. Instead favouring Kassian, who dragged McDavids effectiveness way down

Tippett loves his vets so much that bouchard is now getting the third most time at even strength.
All coaches love players they can trust, this isn’t a concept isolated to tippett

It took how many games for them to even start Bouchard, and I believe it was due to an injury why he even got the opportunity. This is after playing a full AHL season, half-season in Sweden (looking good in both leagues). Thankfully Bouchard has looked so good, because even if he had looked solid, but not amazing- hed probably be press boxed like Jones is (in favour of two vets demonstrably worse)

Tippett did the same in Arizona. So although even right now people could say "its only Jones" or "Jesse needed to prove himself" or "Bouchard is a rookie D", its small sample size in Edmonton but carrying on from a much larger sample size in Arizona. I do not thin Tippett will be disastrous like our goaltending will be, but ti will continue to be maddening as he continues to favour vets (who are not good) over the younger, better players

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Dont really have a comparable for Bear/Yamamoto/Bouchard. Disagree massively with Jones, this is a guy with some pretty amazing underlying numbers who is super promising and continues to watch from the press box as Kris Russell and Adam Larsson continue to suck

who cares about "underlying numbers"...Jones was brutal to start the season and the Oilers went 6-1 without him in the line-up...he'll get another chance

It also took JP like 10 games to even get an audition on the top line, and he had to play absolutely lights out in the bottom 6. Instead favouring Kassian, who dragged McDavids effectiveness way down

why should JP automatically start on the top line? because he's a high draft pick?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Dont really have a comparable for Bear/Yamamoto/Bouchard. Disagree massively with Jones, this is a guy with some pretty amazing underlying numbers who is super promising and continues to watch from the press box as Kris Russell and Adam Larsson continue to suck

It also took JP like 10 games to even get an audition on the top line, and he had to play absolutely lights out in the bottom 6. Instead favouring Kassian, who dragged McDavids effectiveness way down



It took how many games for them to even start Bouchard, and I believe it was due to an injury why he even got the opportunity. This is after playing a full AHL season, half-season in Sweden (looking good in both leagues). Thankfully Bouchard has looked so good, because even if he had looked solid, but not amazing- hed probably be press boxed like Jones is (in favour of two vets demonstrably worse)

Tippett did the same in Arizona. So although even right now people could say "its only Jones" or "Jesse needed to prove himself" or "Bouchard is a rookie D", its small sample size in Edmonton but carrying on from a much larger sample size in Arizona. I do not thin Tippett will be disastrous like our goaltending will be, but ti will continue to be maddening as he continues to favour vets (who are not good) over the younger, better players

I think you would be surprised when you see that all coaches have favorites and put players they trust in important roles.

JP was good but not great on the third line, he has been okay on that top line.

My one complaint about Tippett is his refusal to put the DRY line back together when clearly that top 6 is not working.

 

[gordonhught]

Excusing the fact that most reasonable people knew the world was headed for a shutdown so COVID should not have surprised him, Green looked done in the games he did play, and Holland was in the best position to know what he was (not) getting as his former GM. It was "only" a pick, but it just contributes to the death by a thousand cuts that Holland has doled out since he's been here.



But Holland apparently wasn't bright enough to know what AA's flaws were after, again, being the GM when he played for Detroit. Not only that, but Ken was the one who had to deal with his contract grubbery the first time. Why did he think it would be any easier a second time? Along with the goalie waiver debacle, it paints a picture of someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes- probably the worst trait any executive could have.



I wish I was only looking for a move in net for "excitement" purposes. In reality, it's the most important position on the team. Looking at his tenure to date, Holland has had nearly two years since he was brought on to realize the goaltending is an issue and subsequently fix it. I can understand not being able to navigate the market for an immediate solution in Year 1, but this last off-season? Absolutely zero excuse. He needed to make a move- either by paying to move a contract so Markstrom would fit, not signing the depth pieces he did, or finding a salary in/out trade. He doesn't get a pass here. It was or should've been his main priority and he failed to address it.



...and then he did it again with Grosenick. Again, that's the fireable part to me- he didn't learn from the first time. That's a fatal flaw in any executive in any industry.



But ultimately "player depth" doesn't matter when you start almost every game down 1-0. I also can't give him a pass on cap space because ultimately he chose to sign Kassian to the extension he did, which is already handicapping us. Holland has done very little to move this team forward, and outside of a dead cat bounce last year (that even Chiarelli accomplished) we're back to what we were pre-Holland: a glaringly flawed team with obvious needs that the GM doesn't have the wiles to fix and the coach is too stubborn to get much more from. Something has to give here.

Agreed. Holland is awesome.

 

[Oilhawks]

Agreed. Holland is awesome.

Uh oh, incoming ignore from Drop! Welcome to the club, it’s a badge of honour

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Has he been fired yet?

 

[BudBundy]

Excusing the fact that most reasonable people knew the world was headed for a shutdown so COVID should not have surprised him, Green looked done in the games he did play, and Holland was in the best position to know what he was (not) getting as his former GM. It was "only" a pick, but it just contributes to the death by a thousand cuts that Holland has doled out since he's been here.



But Holland apparently wasn't bright enough to know what AA's flaws were after, again, being the GM when he played for Detroit. Not only that, but Ken was the one who had to deal with his contract grubbery the first time. Why did he think it would be any easier a second time? Along with the goalie waiver debacle, it paints a picture of someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes- probably the worst trait any executive could have.



I wish I was only looking for a move in net for "excitement" purposes. In reality, it's the most important position on the team. Looking at his tenure to date, Holland has had nearly two years since he was brought on to realize the goaltending is an issue and subsequently fix it. I can understand not being able to navigate the market for an immediate solution in Year 1, but this last off-season? Absolutely zero excuse. He needed to make a move- either by paying to move a contract so Markstrom would fit, not signing the depth pieces he did, or finding a salary in/out trade. He doesn't get a pass here. It was or should've been his main priority and he failed to address it.



...and then he did it again with Grosenick. Again, that's the fireable part to me- he didn't learn from the first time. That's a fatal flaw in any executive in any industry.



But ultimately "player depth" doesn't matter when you start almost every game down 1-0. I also can't give him a pass on cap space because ultimately he chose to sign Kassian to the extension he did, which is already handicapping us. Holland has done very little to move this team forward, and outside of a dead cat bounce last year (that even Chiarelli accomplished) we're back to what we were pre-Holland: a glaringly flawed team with obvious needs that the GM doesn't have the wiles to fix and the coach is too stubborn to get much more from. Something has to give here.

You can hear a pin drop around here lately. Lol

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[JordanGalhanth]

This thread has aged as well as the "only two weeks" mandate...

...too soon?

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

If the Oilers win the cup in the next 4 years with Holland at the helm can the mods perma-ban the clown that started this thread and still bitches about not signing the goalie that everyone has pointed out said he didn't want to sign with EDM and who EDM didn't have cap space for anyway?

 

[TB12]

You can hear a pin drop around here lately. Lol

Dropthegloves has been f***in invisible lately.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Holland had diamond hands with Puljujarvi and it is paying off.