Fire Ken Holland

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yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
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Dawson City, YT
It isn’t, but this is not a very good hockey team and not coincidentally it is run by a bad GM. That’s what this thread is about.



“Smartly conservative” = trading three draft picks for Green and AA and not getting anything out of either this or last season

To then come back with the exact same goaltending is unacceptable. Either Holland didn’t realize it was an issue, or he was too inept to fix it. Neither speaks well to his abilities as a general manager in today’s game.

1. The Green trade was just a bad luck result because the pandemic shut everything down. The whole purpose of it was to bring in experienced depth to help gear up for what we were expecting to be a final push for the playoffs and try to go on a run and do some damage. When the world shut down Green decided to retire and we were out a late draft pick.....big whoop.

2. AA trade, there is plenty of room of criticism here and the trade has been dissected beyond nauseum on these boards for months. It was a gamble that turned into a swing and a miss. Holland was bright enough to see the trade didn't workout as planned, and instead of doubling down and caving into signing a bad contract, Holland cut him lose and used that money to sign a better fit in Tyson Barrie.

3. While it was less than exciting that we have the exact same goaltending dual as last season, it clearly wasn't Holland's first choice to re-sign Smith. Its been reported numerous that Holland was contacting almost every other goalie out there to try to sign here, but we still didn't have enough wiggle room under the cap as they all signed elsewhere mainly for more dollars (or just retire instead in Jimmy Howard's case). One knock i will hold against Holland is waiving Forsberg. That situation has costed the team a few games already, so on this front, I agree Holland deserves the flack, but it's not something to fire him over.

4. We knew when Holland came here it was going to be a tough 2 seasons at least because of how cap strapped the team was when he showed up. But to his credit he has filled the roster out with more player depth than any other season (outside of 06) than what I've seen the Oilers bolster already in the time I've been alive as an Oilers fan (I'm too young to have experienced the cup winning teams). It's this up coming offseason that we'll see what Holland can really do as there'll finally be cap space to bolster the line up with some badly needed upgrades. If he fails at that, then I'll be on board the fire Holland train. But we aren't there yet, so relax a bit. The team is not a terrible team, it's a playoff bubble team. Let's see what happens by the deadline
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
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Jake Allen is doing fine in Montreal, why wasn’t he an option?
He was traded by Montreal for a 3rd and a 7th.

Imagine the vitriol if Holland left himself with 3 picks in this draft and picked up 4.3 million dollar Jake Allen. He would've been roasted. Hindsight this year tells us so far Jake Allen has done a good job in a limited role, but up until this year according to most of HF he was cooked.

Literally everyone he approached choose more money and term than he offered and are doing about as well as Mike Smith and Koski currently are. I'm not saying there isn't any goalies to be had. I believe after striking out on 3 or 4 guys he decided to fill some other holes that needed filling. Imagine the hissy fits about depth right now if Holland spent all his time trying to get a goalie and Barrie/Kahun/KK and JP didn't get signed. Turris, yeah that's a whiff.

Could have thrown 8 million at Markstrom sure. Then none of the depth players get signed. You can act like they don't matter but they do.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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He was traded by Montreal for a 3rd and a 7th.

Imagine the vitriol if Holland left himself with 3 picks in this draft and picked up 4.3 million dollar Jake Allen. He would've been roasted. Hindsight this year tells us so far Jake Allen has done a good job in a limited rope, but up until this year according to most of HF he was cooked.
A third and a seventh is a very small price to pay, and he’s an upgrade on Smith. The salary is a bit steep but not too bad.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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He didn't get the job done last summer, bottom line. He could have acquired Kuemper or taken a flyer on Dubnyk at least but was gun shy and it may cost us a season.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
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Everyone here would've lost it over the 4+ million dollar contract and wouldve been shaking their fists over having over 8mil on the books for back up goaltending
I'm basically getting the impression from a small group of posters that anything but a deep cup run this year would be considered a failure on the part of management. Not really sure there's a discussion to be had there that's grounded in reality.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
14,173
20,683
He didn't get the job done last summer, bottom line. He could have acquired Kuemper or taken a flyer on Dubnyk at least but was gun shy and it may cost us a season.
You say gun shy. I see it as trying to blow your load on a legit starter, coming up short, and spending that money elsewhere. Because it was needed elsewhere. Maybe he keeps waiting and doesn't get Barrie and KK. What does that do for our Blueline this year so far?
 
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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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I'm basically getting the impression from a small group of posters that anything but a deep cup run this year would be considered a failure on the part of management. Not really sure there's a discussion to be had there that's grounded in reality.

We can't keep missing the playoffs. We would be the 2nd best team in this division if Holland had gotten Kuemper.

He f***ed this up.
 

yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
19,666
23,662
Dawson City, YT
He didn't get the job done last summer, bottom line. He could have acquired Kuemper or taken a flyer on Dubnyk at least but was gun shy and it may cost us a season.

Arizona wants a pretty big haul for Kuemper, so i could see why Holland would not be excited to pony up, given our limited resources, and Dubnyk, does anyone think he would have any interest at all in coming back?

Personally i think signing Forsberg was adequate for the season, but bungled it by trying to sneak him through waivers.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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I didn't realise we missed the playoffs this year.

He has hamstrung us to the point where it's a fair possibility.

We've spotted Winnipeg and Calgary several points already despite outplaying them.

We did not need to be in this position.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
14,173
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He has hamstrung us to the point where it's a fair possibility.

We've spotted Winnipeg and Calgary several points already despite outplaying them.

We did not need to be in this position.
There's still 40 games to be played. Anything can happen.

I get what you and others are saying, believe me. I guess we just see the big picture differently. I always expected it to take a couple of years for Holland to put a real stamp on this team, and I don't think the situation with McDavid is as dire as some people here make it out to be.

Clearly some folks expected him to have this team contending in little over a year because if not McDavid is walking away.

Agree to disagree I guess.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,148
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There's still 40 games to be played. Anything can happen.

I get what you and others are saying, believe me. I guess we just see the big picture differently. I always expected it to take a couple of years for Holland to put a real stamp on this team, and I don't think the situation with McDavid is as dire as some people here make it out to be.

Clearly some folks expected him to have this team contending in little over a year because if not McDavid is walking away.

Agree to disagree I guess.

A couple of years is bullshit, after one year it was time to get to serious work.

We have a team that could win the division if he had been willing to give up a 1st. He chickened out and put the team at jeporday of missing again so we can have a 1st that may help us in 2026. Whoopity doo Ken.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
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If they had known Smith was the other option I think they would’ve swallowed their pride.
Honestly based on how last year went, as a plan F Mike Smith didn't strike me as the world is over kind of option. They managed to work through it last year so I understand the thought to try again as a last resort during a short year where cap opens up greatly.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
14,173
20,683
A couple of years is bullshit, after one year it was time to get to serious work.

We have a team that could win the division if he had been willing to give up a 1st. He chickened out and put the team at jeporday of missing again so we can have a 1st that may help us in 2026. Whoopity doo Ken.
You sound like you think this team is a Darcy Kuemper away from being a contender.

Sorry I disagree.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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You sound like you think this team is a Darcy Kuemper away from being a contender.

Sorry I disagree.

Their record would be 11-6 minimum with Kuemper here. That's easily in contention for 2nd best in the division.

He went cheap on goaltending and it's costing the team massively.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,281
39,511
NYC
You sound like you think this team is a Darcy Kuemper away from being a contender.

Sorry I disagree.

I'm kind of on your side of the argument with the other stuff but Kuemper absolutely makes them a contender to make it to the Western Conference Finals.
 
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