Fire/Don't Fire/Discuss Torts II

[BluejacketNut]

Holy hell was i wrong, glad to eat crow with results

 

[Fireball23]

No need to fire him .. he has done pretty good with this team. I also think bringing in the Paul MacLean to help the power play has been a very good thing. This was one of the worst PP in the league. Not so much now a days. Jackets biggest weakness.

 

[Madifer]

I just checked Panarin's numbers and hes having what seems to be the best year of his NHL career 'by far'. While I cant stand NYR and almost never watch their games I do wonder what is it they did that Torts could not to unleash that beast in Bread?

Did Torts fail to unlock Bread's full potential?

 

[stevo61]

I just checked Panarin's numbers and hes having what seems to be the best year of his NHL career 'by far'. While I cant stand NYR and almost never watch their games I do wonder what is it they did that Torts could not to unleash that beast in Bread?

Did Torts fail to unlock Bread's full potential?

There is a defensive zone in hockey. Sacrificing a bit of offense for better defense is a positive especially in the playoffs where noone will care how many regular seasin points he had. Also have to consider Dubois and Bjorkstrand are getting better and better so who knows what could have been. Panarin is obviously happy to be in NY and we'll see if he keeps that excitement if they cant find a way into the playoffs in the next couple years

 

[Madifer]

There is a defensive zone in hockey. Sacrificing a bit of offense for better defense is a positive especially in the playoffs where noone will care how many regular seasin points he had. Also have to consider Dubois and Bjorkstrand are getting better and better so who knows what could have been. Panarin is obviously happy to be in NY and we'll see if he keeps that excitement if they cant find a way into the playoffs in the next couple years

So what you are saying is that it was Torts's system that was limiting him. Thats what I thought as well.

 

[stevo61]

So what you are saying is that it was Torts's system that was limiting him. Thats what I thought as well.

Offensively? Its possible but 2 way play is better than pure offense. Look at the series vs Tampa or even the fact we are above NY in the standings while scoring 28 less goals. Pure offense is fun but not usually the best thing for team results

 

[Madifer]

Offensively? Its possible but 2 way play is better than pure offense. Look at the series vs Tampa or even the fact we are above NY in the standings while scoring 28 less goals. Pure offense is fun but not usually the best thing for team results

Yeah I know but ok thx.

Abd screw NY. I hope CBJ makes it into April and they dont :Р

 

[Byrral]

This is a hard question that will be debated until the day he's actually fired (that could still be a long way away). Torts is a good coach with a lot of warts. He's done a great job with changing the culture of the team in the dressing room and he deserves all the credit for that. He holds people accountable but he also wears on people and is stubborn to a fault. He absolutely refuses to get off of his old school mentality and allowing the young players to play their game and play through their mistakes. It's always how they check and play away from the puck. All great players/scorers aren't checkers or defensive players. Playing hands of stone Boone Jenner in OT games for his "faceoff prowess" (he's been really bad at that in OT for a while now) is a perfect example of his stubbornness. Boone is a good player and has a place on every team in the NHL but has no business being on the ice in OT. People have talked about the player Bjorkstrand has become and I say well great...he's turned a 50 goal scoring junior prospect into a 20 goal two way forward. Awesome. They have enough of those type of players and need what Ollie used to be (a dangerous high scoring forward).

I do not want him fired or think he should be at this time but he's not a coach void of criticism even if the team has been winning lately (the players deserve most of the credit for playing total team hockey and winning games just as they deserved most of the angst when they were playing awful for many games at the begging of the season and losing). The goalie play has also been stellar for quite some time and even Torts will admit he doesn't get involved much in the goalie department.

He's been a great coach for this team but I still doubt that he will be the coach to guide them to bigger and better things.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that special teams has not been good under Torts and they have brought in several aides/coaches to help with that.

 

[3074326]

I just checked Panarin's numbers and hes having what seems to be the best year of his NHL career 'by far'. While I cant stand NYR and almost never watch their games I do wonder what is it they did that Torts could not to unleash that beast in Bread?

Did Torts fail to unlock Bread's full potential?

He's producing a lot more on the PP. His best season in Columbus was 7g 14a on the PP. He already has 6g 10a in 46 games.

I think he was expected to do more on defense here, but he's been really solid for NY too in that sense.

 

[Monstershockey]

This is a hard question that will be debated until the day he's actually fired (that could still be a long way away). Torts is a good coach with a lot of warts. He's done a great job with changing the culture of the team in the dressing room and he deserves all the credit for that. He holds people accountable but he also wears on people and is stubborn to a fault. He absolutely refuses to get off of his old school mentality and allowing the young players to play their game and play through their mistakes. It's always how they check and play away from the puck. All great players/scorers aren't checkers or defensive players. Playing hands of stone Boone Jenner in OT games for his "faceoff prowess" (he's been really bad at that in OT for a while now) is a perfect example of his stubbornness. Boone is a good player and has a place on every team in the NHL but has no business being on the ice in OT. People have talked about the player Bjorkstrand has become and I say well great...he's turned a 50 goal scoring junior prospect into a 20 goal two way forward. Awesome. They have enough of those type of players and need what Ollie used to be (a dangerous high scoring forward).

I do not want him fired or think he should be at this time but he's not a coach void of criticism even if the team has been winning lately (the players deserve most of the credit for playing total team hockey and winning games just as they deserved most of the angst when they were playing awful for many games at the begging of the season and losing). The goalie play has also been stellar for quite some time and even Torts will admit he doesn't get involved much in the goalie department.

He's been a great coach for this team but I still doubt that he will be the coach to guide them to bigger and better things.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that special teams has not been good under Torts and they have brought in several aides/coaches to help with that.

I don't know how you can say it's Torts that is responsible for Bjorkstrand scoring less in the NHL than he did in a junior league. I would have to say the talent level in the NHL is more responsible for that. Actually if you want to blame a coach for his decrease in goal scoring you would have to look at Bednar in Cleveland, but that is also a reach since the talent is much better there than the WHL. Look a Fix-Wolansky. He had 102 points last season in the WHL. He has just 10 this year. He has been out injured, but he is nowhere close to the pace he was at in the WHL. Actually, getting back to Bjorkstrand, his 23 goals last season was higher than any Columbus or Cleveland season prior to that. This year, until he was injured, he was well on pace to pass 23 goals this season, and still might do so. He has progressed nicely under Torts, and has improved each season. As far as letting the young guys play their game and play through their mistakes, they have had plenty of chances to do so. Which one is producing at a level that their offense totally covers up their lack of defense? Maybe if they were still at the bottom of the division, out of the playoff hunt, you could let these guys stretch their legs a bit. Now that they are right in the mix, you have to play to get in the playoffs. There is no more time for experimenting.

 

[Xoggz22]

Torts for Jack Adams! What he's done with the coaching and players is nothing short of coach of the year worthy. I get there are others as well but this team was pegged for bottom 5 in the NHL. At this point in the season that looks unlikely. We heard nothing but doom and gloom from "experts" and pundits due to the loss of their super heroes. I'm not saying Bread and Bob weren't huge for this team but it's clear the coaching is a reason this is actually a team. Those that don't like Torts or feel he restricts players offensive talent, by all means continue but I like a team that plays in all three zones and can get the most out of the talent they have. If Jarmo can make some shrewd moves to add additional offensive talent this team is very strong. Also very young with upside in several players.

 

[Viqsi]

Yes, I renamed the thread, because it's rapidly becoming our "discuss the coaching" thread rather than just a firing advocacy thread.

 

[KCbus]

There is a defensive zone in hockey. Sacrificing a bit of offense for better defense is a positive especially in the playoffs where noone will care how many regular seasin points he had. Also have to consider Dubois and Bjorkstrand are getting better and better so who knows what could have been. Panarin is obviously happy to be in NY and we'll see if he keeps that excitement if they cant find a way into the playoffs in the next couple years

Exactly. Nikita Kucherov led the league in scoring last season with 128 points. How'd he do in the playoffs?

Offensively? Its possible but 2 way play is better than pure offense. Look at the series vs Tampa

Ah, yes. Two points in that series. That's only one more point than he had suspensions.

There are two nets in hockey. Keeping the puck out of yours is just as important as finding the other one.

 

[KCbus]

Also, on Panarin: It's not exactly like Bread was completely stifled offensively when he was here. He had 87 points. He was 17th in the league in scoring. And out of the other 16 guys in front of him, he had a better +/- rating than 8 of them, including Ovechkin. Also, of those 16 guys ahead of him, only two of them advanced past the first round of the playoffs. Marchand went to game 7 of the Final with the Bruins, and MacKinnon's Avalanche lost in game 7 in the second round to San Jose. The others:

Kucherov, TBL - swept
McDavid, EDM - missed playoffs
Kane, CHI - missed playoffs
Draisaitl, EDM - missed playoffs
Crosby, PIT - swept
Gaudreau, CGY - out in first round
Stamkos, TBL - swept
Barkov, FLA - missed playoffs
Marner, TOR - out in first round
Point, TBL - swept
Huberdeau, FLA - missed playoffs
Wheeler, WPG - out in first round
Ovechkin, WSH - out in first round
Tavares, TOR - out in first round

Five of them missed the playoffs (and four of them played for Edmonton and Florida, who didn't even come close). Four of them got swept out (Tampa, Pittsburgh). And one only won a single playoff game (Calgary).

Tortorella, meanwhile, took a disciplined team with good goaltending and scoring-at-large to a sweep of the President's Trophy winner and a game 6 against a stacked Boston team that wound up in the Final.

By the way, The Blues? The eventual champions? Their top scorer was Ryan O'Reilly. 77 points, 32nd in the league.

Scoring isn't everything.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I just checked Panarin's numbers and hes having what seems to be the best year of his NHL career 'by far'. While I cant stand NYR and almost never watch their games I do wonder what is it they did that Torts could not to unleash that beast in Bread?

Did Torts fail to unlock Bread's full potential?

He was tied for 17th in NHL scoring last season on a team which had a miserable PP.

Think that you're reaching on this one.

 

[Madifer]

He was tied for 17th in NHL scoring last season on a team which had a miserable PP.

Think that you're reaching on this one.

Was simply curious nothing more.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Was simply curious nothing more.

Fair enough.

Panarin's at that age where a lot of players have a career year. He's stoked about playing in New York and is in the prime of his career.

 

[Madifer]

Fair enough.

Panarin's at that age where a lot of players have a career year. He's stoked about playing in New York and is in the prime of his career.

The question was mostly about Torts really.

Thx all

 

[BluejacketNut]

I definitely think he's done well with holding down the fort so to speak in terms of all the injuries, but we're seeing some of the best goaltending in the league right now, that always helps a coaches position. But we're winning and thats really all that matter

 

[EspenK]

https://www.tsn.ca/why-torts-deserves-the-jack-adams-award-at-midseason-1.1431874

 

[Cowumbus]

Yes, I renamed the thread, because it's rapidly becoming our "discuss the coaching" thread rather than just a firing advocacy thread.

I still want him fired after this year.

 

[MAHJ71]

I still want him fired after this year.

Good luck.

 

[Madifer]

I still want him fired after this year.

Hmm but why? And who would you hire to replace him?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I still want him fired after this year.

Why is it so hard for people to say they were wrong?

 

[Byrral]

Hmm but why? And who would you hire to replace him?

There's some things that I have issues with in regards to this coach (I have mentioned them in previous posts of mine). I think he gets too much praise when the team wins and not enough when the defense disappears, the special teams break down or with the utilization and playing time of certain players. But you bring up the best point. With whom do you replace him with?

This team can still do things few expected before the year started. 67% of posters on this board who voted before the year started had them outside of the playoffs (including me...including @Cowumbus). Nobody can deny that Torts and the coaches have put in a system that gives the team a chance to win games and have the players buying into that strategy. He deserves the credit for that. He hasn't lost the locker room. That says a lot to me.

The team is going through a transition period right now. Continuity is important and Torts provides that.

Torts will be fired one day. The timing for that is certainly not now or at seasons end no matter if they make the playoffs or not.