Fire Chia Thread IV: Hitchin' a Ride

[belair]

Wow. Lets be honest here. Hitch is doing a great job and we are back to being a playoff contender, but we are nowhere near deep enough to really be a cup contender.

I don't think there would be many people to tell you otherwise. I just don't see how someone would think we'd have a Cup contender considering the situation we started off with three years ago.

The contender will come when some of these prospects start stepping in and contributing. When this team isn't reliant on a single line to produce over half of its offense, we'll be a challenging team to face. In the meantime, we're a team that's going to have to dig in to get wins.

 

[Aerchon]

You put 2017/18 Talbot on that team and we miss the playoffs. It doesn't matter how solid the defence is when your goalie is letting in goals from center ice and behind the redline or failing to make routine saves. I believe we've had a good team the past 3 years with goaltending letting us down last season. You can defend Chia all you want but this is the GM that inherited the golden ticket of GM jobs and found a way to turn what could have been a future dynasty into a bubble team for the foreseeable future.

I honestly could care less if Chiarelli is fired tomorrow.

Saying he has been a mixed bag is generous.

But I think you are underestimating how terrible this team was. How utterly broken.

Also how many of the moves Chiarelli has made were at least good at the time and did actually improve the team short term. If Sekera was healthy the last 2 years who knows how different things would be. Although I agree no team would make the playoffs with how bad Talbot was last year.

Spring 2017. We were universally predicted to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals.

I find it tough to imagine another GM doing THAT much better under the circumstances, and i am certain the old boys club could not.

 

[McShogun99]

I honestly could care less if Chiarelli is fired tomorrow.

Saying he has been a mixed bag is generous.

But I think you are underestimating how terrible this team was. How utterly broken.

Also how many of the moves Chiarelli has made were at least good at the time and did actually improve the team short term. If Sekera was healthy the last 2 years who knows how different things would be. Although I agree no team would make the playoffs with how bad Talbot was last year.

Spring 2017. We were universally predicted to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals.

I find it tough to imagine another GM doing THAT much better under the circumstances, and i am certain the old boys club could not.

It’s still the OBC running the team. I know we shit on Chia but there was no way he was targeting Reinhart or wanted Hall off the team ASAP. It was probably a similar situation to Seguin in Boston. He was told to make a trade so he did.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I honestly could care less if Chiarelli is fired tomorrow.

Saying he has been a mixed bag is generous.

But I think you are underestimating how terrible this team was. How utterly broken.

Also how many of the moves Chiarelli has made were at least good at the time and did actually improve the team short term. If Sekera was healthy the last 2 years who knows how different things would be. Although I agree no team would make the playoffs with how bad Talbot was last year.

Spring 2017. We were universally predicted to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals.

I find it tough to imagine another GM doing THAT much better under the circumstances, and i am certain the old boys club could not.

The team arguably has more holes in the lineup that when he started. Enough said.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The team arguably has more holes in the lineup that when he started. Enough said.

disagree

our defense in April 2015:

Ference-Schultz
Klefbom-Fayne
Nikitin-Marincin
Hunt

I count 2 NHLers in that group

goaltenders:
Scrivens
Fasth
Bachman

I count zero NHLers in net

up front:

the 3 golden boys (Hall, Nuge, Eberle) then a bunch of garbage:
-Purcell
-Pouliot
-Yakupov
-Lander
-Gordon
-Gazdic

not exactly ripe with talent...just old bad vets on their last contracts

 

[BudBundy]

It is simply beyond argument that we had ample good young players, cap space, prospects, and draft pick assets before Chia took over, to easily make a better team than the one Chia assembled. He squandered talent, cap space, and draft picks like a human pez dispenser. He should’ve been kicked to the curb long ago.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

disagree

our defense in April 2015:

Ference-Schultz
Klefbom-Fayne
Nikitin-Marincin
Hunt

I count 2 NHLers in that group

goaltenders:
Scrivens
Fasth
Bachman

I count zero NHLers in net

up front:

the 3 golden boys (Hall, Nuge, Eberle) then a bunch of garbage:
-Purcell
-Pouliot
-Yakupov
-Lander
-Gordon
-Gazdic

not exactly ripe with talent...just old bad vets on their last contracts

There are still exactly zero PMDs, something the Oilers are starved for currently. Jury is out on goaltending currently. Somedays it looks NHL calibre, other days... not so much. And we have three really good centers up front and.... nothing else.

McDavid makes this team look a lot better than it really is. And Chiarelli obviously had very little to do with that.

 

[Aerchon]

There are still exactly zero PMDs, something the Oilers are starved for currently. Jury is out on goaltending currently. Somedays it looks NHL calibre, other days... not so much. And we have three really good centers up front and.... nothing else.

McDavid makes this team look a lot better than it really is. And Chiarelli obviously had very little to do with that.

McDavid is awesome.

But at 12.5 cap hit he is taking up two roster spots. You bring in 2 legit top 6 guys worth 6+ million in his place and I'm not sure how much worse this team really is.

Even playing 20 minutes a night. Even racking up 100+ points a year...

2 guys will be on the ice way more and combined can easily hit 100+ points.

McDavid is only on the for 1/3 the game. People need to realize as amazing as he is. If the team were as bad as some make out we would still be a last place team.

 

[McShogun99]

disagree

our defense in April 2015:

Ference-Schultz
Klefbom-Fayne
Nikitin-Marincin
Hunt

I count 2 NHLers in that group

goaltenders:
Scrivens
Fasth
Bachman

I count zero NHLers in net

up front:

the 3 golden boys (Hall, Nuge, Eberle) then a bunch of garbage:
-Purcell
-Pouliot
-Yakupov
-Lander
-Gordon
-Gazdic

not exactly ripe with talent...just old bad vets on their last contracts

He completely revamped the roster. The only players that are still here from when Mac T was the GM are Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom, Khaira and Nurse. Any GM that took over was going to revamp our roster. Our strength when he was hired was at center with Mcdavid about to be drafted and the wings. He kept the center depth and used our wing depth, draft pick trades and UFA signings to fix the goaltending and defence. We're obviously in a much better place from when he took over but we should be further along then where we are now.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

There are still exactly zero PMDs, something the Oilers are starved for currently. Jury is out on goaltending currently. Somedays it looks NHL calibre, other days... not so much. And we have three really good centers up front and.... nothing else.

McDavid makes this team look a lot better than it really is. And Chiarelli obviously had very little to do with that.

Wow, what a revelation you got here.

Best player in the NHL, makes his team better.

More news at 11

 

[edmoil3]

This place is a cesspool.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

There are still exactly zero PMDs, something the Oilers are starved for currently. Jury is out on goaltending currently. Somedays it looks NHL calibre, other days... not so much. And we have three really good centers up front and.... nothing else.

McDavid makes this team look a lot better than it really is. And Chiarelli obviously had very little to do with that.

disagree..Sekera and Klefbom are adequate puck-movers

they miss an elite offensive defenseman but those don't come easy and usually have to be solved via drafting

but the point that "there's more holes now than ever" is completely false

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It is simply beyond argument that we had ample good young players, cap space, prospects, and draft pick assets before Chia took over, to easily make a better team than the one Chia assembled. He squandered talent, cap space, and draft picks like a human pez dispenser. He should’ve been kicked to the curb long ago.

ummmm did you see the defense, goaltending before Chiarelli got here?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wow, what a revelation you got here.

Best player in the NHL, makes his team better.

More news at 11

I mean if you look at it in the basest sense, yes. What I'm saying is McDavid masks a lot of underlying issues with the team, including the horrendous depth. Klefbom has more goals than anyone in our bottom 6 currently.

McDavid is awesome.

But at 12.5 cap hit he is taking up two roster spots. You bring in 2 legit top 6 guys worth 6+ million in his place and I'm not sure how much worse this team really is.

Even playing 20 minutes a night. Even racking up 100+ points a year...

2 guys will be on the ice way more and combined can easily hit 100+ points.

McDavid is only on the for 1/3 the game. People need to realize as amazing as he is. If the team were as bad as some make out we would still be a last place team.

Excuse me? You think this team makes the playoffs two years ago subtracting McDavid and adding... I dunno, let's say Phil Kessel and Ryan Johansen? This is severely underestimating how good McDavid is. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but since McDavid broke into the league the Oilers are something like +48 with him on the ice.... and -90 something with him off it. Did you not watch that Dallas game? The Oilers never threatened to win that game. Not once. Take McDavid off this team and even adding two "6 million top 6 guys" and you get.... well, pretty much the Oilers pre-McDavid. And we all know how bad those teams were.

disagree..Sekera and Klefbom are adequate puck-movers

they miss an elite offensive defenseman but those don't come easy and usually have to be solved via drafting

but the point that "there's more holes now than ever" is completely false

Sekera is essentially done as an NHLer. He was horrendous in his return last year and I doubt he'll be that much better this year. Klefbom is probably our best PMD but that's saying more about the rest of them than it is about Klefbom himself. Just imagine this team with a Morgan Reilly...

 

[BudBundy]

ummmm did you see the defense, goaltending before Chiarelli got here?

I’ve “seen” the Oilers since before Esa Tikkanen was a rookie.

 

[Spawn]

disagree..Sekera and Klefbom are adequate puck-movers

they miss an elite offensive defenseman but those don't come easy and usually have to be solved via drafting

but the point that "there's more holes now than ever" is completely false

Sekera was an adequate puck mover. He hasn't been one since he was injured. Chia hasn't done a thing to replace him.

Klefbom has never been much of a puck mover. He's adequate from the blue line in the offensive end. But in terms of passing from his own end or carrying the puck he's not particularly good.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Sekera was an adequate puck mover. He hasn't been one since he was injured. Chia hasn't done a thing to replace him.

Klefbom has never been much of a puck mover. He's adequate from the blue line in the offensive end. But in terms of passing from his own end or carrying the puck he's not particularly good.

This is something he should have addressed and seemingly chose not to. Either that or he couldn’t make it happen. It would appear he decided to replace Sekera with one of the pto’s. That’s not good enough imo.

 

[Panda Bear]

Zero puck-moving defencemen my ass.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sekera was an adequate puck mover. He hasn't been one since he was injured. Chia hasn't done a thing to replace him.

Klefbom has never been much of a puck mover. He's adequate from the blue line in the offensive end. But in terms of passing from his own end or carrying the puck he's not particularly good.

This to me was probably his biggest failing last season. He knew Sekera would be gone for awhile and did nothing to replace him. Instead we tried Matt Benning in the top 4 and we all know how that went.

 

[Aerchon]

This to me was probably his biggest failing last season. He knew Sekera would be gone for awhile and did nothing to replace him. Instead we tried Matt Benning in the top 4 and we all know how that went.

Not true.

He banked on Nurse or Benning taking a top 4 role and he was correct in that. Unfortunately Klefbom crapped the bed as did Talbot.

I hate the "he didn't replace Sekera" BS. You can't replace a 5.5 million top 3 level defender who will eventually come back with his entire cap hit. It's silly to even suggest it. Who the hell could of replaced him for little cap space and no term???

Injuries like that are practically impossible to effectively replace for any/all teams.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Not true.

He banked on Nurse or Benning taking a top 4 role and he was correct in that. Unfortunately Klefbom crapped the bed as did Talbot.

I hate the "he didn't replace Sekera" BS. You can't replace a 5.5 million top 3 level defender who will eventually come back with his entire cap hit. It's silly to even suggest it. Who the hell could of replaced him for little cap space and no term???

Injuries like that are practically impossible to effectively replace for any/all teams.

He banked on unproven variables, which is something this organization has done for years with the same result.

Of course you can't "replace" a 5.5 million defenseman... But you sure as hell can find a stopgap. There was no effort to improve the defense the last two years. And again this year Chiarelli wanted Bouchard to remain the entire year. Lazy man's game.

 

[StevenF1919]

I don't think there would be many people to tell you otherwise. I just don't see how someone would think we'd have a Cup contender considering the situation we started off with three years ago.

The contender will come when some of these prospects start stepping in and contributing. When this team isn't reliant on a single line to produce over half of its offense, we'll be a challenging team to face. In the meantime, we're a team that's going to have to dig in to get wins.

Look at the Leafs. I dont think that it was unreasonable to assume that we'd be cup contenders in McDavids 4th season in the NHL.

 

[McGoMcD]

It is simply beyond argument that we had ample good young players, cap space, prospects, and draft pick assets before Chia took over, to easily make a better team than the one Chia assembled. He squandered talent, cap space, and draft picks like a human pez dispenser. He should’ve been kicked to the curb long ago.

This times 100. It is stupid to say the team now looks better than the team then. The team then had a ton assets to be spent to make it better. You have to argue that another GM would have spent those assets worse than Chia did, I find it hard to believe any one would have.

 

[belair]

Look at the Leafs. I dont think that it was unreasonable to assume that we'd be cup contenders in McDavids 4th season in the NHL.

I'm consistently reminded of them and relentlessly point to the fact that they had a far superior prospect cabinet and a payroll that lacked significant salary commitments from day one. And much like the Edmonton Oilers, they also watched their 'elite' wingers move onto other organizations for minimal returns. We were two very differently built hockey teams before our franchise players were added.

But one thing that binds us together is the fact that neither team was likely to be successful in the playoffs until the defense was addressed in a significant manner. And after the salary commitment to Tavares, they have a very short time frame to do so without significantly changing the roster. Another thing they're going to endure is a similar lack of roster depth once Matthews and Marner are given their second contracts.

So yeah, it's pretty unreasonable.

 

[StevenF1919]

I'm consistently reminded of them and relentlessly point to the fact that they had a far superior prospect cabinet and a payroll that lacked significant salary commitments from day one. And much like the Edmonton Oilers, they also watched their 'elite' wingers move onto other organizations for minimal returns. We were two very differently built hockey teams before our franchise players were added.

But one thing that binds us together is the fact that neither team was likely to be successful in the playoffs until the defense was addressed in a significant manner. And after the salary commitment to Tavares, they have a very short time frame to do so without significantly changing the roster. Another thing they're going to endure is a similar lack of roster depth once Matthews and Marner are given their second contracts.

So yeah, it's pretty unreasonable.

All of our significant salary commitments right now are Chiarelli signings.

If that Reinhart trade hadn't have happened, our prospect cupboard would have been vastly superior to theirs. The difference between our two teams is that our GM was impatient and rushed to make deals even though he'd lose them badly, while theirs waited for their young guns to develop.

Their defense is fine. Reilly is elite and Gardiner is no slouch either. They've also got an excellent starting goalie. Nylander will probably be shipped out eventually but in the meantime they're all in to contend for the cup in Matthews' last ELC year, something we never did with McDavid.

The only thing that's going to stop them from contending for a cup this season is that the Leafs are and forever will be garbage. I'm looking forward to them getting swept in the first round.