Fire Chia Thread IV: Hitchin' a Ride

[Soundwave]

I don't think there would be many people to tell you otherwise. I just don't see how someone would think we'd have a Cup contender considering the situation we started off with three years ago.

The contender will come when some of these prospects start stepping in and contributing. When this team isn't reliant on a single line to produce over half of its offense, we'll be a challenging team to face. In the meantime, we're a team that's going to have to dig in to get wins.

Because you have very low expectations and expect mediocrity. Any reasonable person could take a look at the 2015 and 2016 draft class alone and take 15 seconds and see the Oilers could've drafted some very impressive players and built a core around McDavid that would've been very good.

And I'm dubious about some of these propsects. Puljujarvi while trying hard still looks completely clueless offensively. Yamamoto has 1 goal in 7 AHL games this year, and that's an empty net goal. This guy is supposed to be a top six winger here as soon as next year? Marody and Russell have been great in the AHL, but the AHL is not the NHL, neither has done much of anything up here.

 

[belair]

All of our significant salary commitments right now are Chiarelli signings.

If that Reinhart trade hadn't have happened, our prospect cupboard would have been vastly superior to theirs. The difference between our two teams is that our GM was impatient and rushed to make deals even though he'd lose them badly, while theirs waited for their young guns to develop.

Their defense is fine. Reilly is elite and Gardiner is no slouch either. They've also got an excellent starting goalie. Nylander will probably be shipped out eventually but in the meantime they're all in to contend for the cup in Matthews' last ELC year, something we never did with McDavid.

The only thing that's going to stop them from contending for a cup this season is that the Leafs are and forever will be garbage. I'm looking forward to them getting swept in the first round.

Our significant salary commitments were our most valuable trade assets--that salary diminished their value. Our other salary commitments either had to be buried or bought out because they had no value on the trade market because the players were barely NHL caliber and washed out of the league immediately after the contracts expired.

The Leafs and the Oilers were nothing alike before they got their franchise forwards.

 

[MaxR11]

Because you have very low expectations and expect mediocrity. Any reasonable person could take a look at the 2015 and 2016 draft class alone and take 15 seconds and see the Oilers could've drafted some very impressive players and built a core around McDavid that would've been very good.

And I'm dubious about some of these propsects. Puljujarvi while trying hard still looks completely clueless offensively. Yamamoto has 1 goal in 7 AHL games this year, and that's an empty net goal. This goal is supposed to be a top six winger here as soon as next year? Marody and Russell have been great in the AHL, but the AHL is not the NHL, neither has done much of anything up here.

you keep assuming we'd be able to develop those "would be drafted" players. For all you know todd etc might have developed Kyle Connor or Barzal into another poor man's Robert Nilsson.

 

[Jumptheshark]

 

[Soundwave]

you keep assuming we'd be able to develop those "would be drafted" players. For all you know todd etc might have developed Kyle Connor or Barzal into another poor man's Robert Nilsson.

Yet McDavid, Draisaitl, Eberle, Hall, all developed well enough here and RNH has been alright too.

The problem is they don't draft enough good players to begin with. Barzal would get to play with McDavid or Draisaitl, he would've done just fine. Nilsson got to play with Sam Gagner, not a small difference.

 

[Soundwave]

Our significant salary commitments were our most valuable trade assets--that salary diminished their value. Our other salary commitments either had to be buried or bought out because they had no value on the trade market because the players were barely NHL caliber and washed out of the league immediately after the contracts expired.

The Leafs and the Oilers were nothing alike before they got their franchise forwards.

Eh what significant salary commitments did the Oilers have as of May 2015? Cap flexibility was not a problem, it's only a problem now because Chiarelli did what Bruins fans warned us he would do -- spend a ton of money on mediocre grinder players.

Bs fans tried to warn us in 2015.

 

[belair]

Because you have very low expectations and expect mediocrity. Any reasonable person could take a look at the 2015 and 2016 draft class alone and take 15 seconds and see the Oilers could've drafted some very impressive players and built a core around McDavid that would've been very good.

And I'm dubious about some of these propsects. Puljujarvi while trying hard still looks completely clueless offensively. Yamamoto has 1 goal in 7 AHL games this year, and that's an empty net goal. This guy is supposed to be a top six winger here as soon as next year? Marody and Russell have been great in the AHL, but the AHL is not the NHL, neither has done much of anything up here.

No, I just realize that shit happens and no GM hits home runs at the draft every year. And regardless of your assessment of the draft picks beyond McDavid's acquisition, I'm talking about the state of the franchise before GM's tenure.

Without question had the decisions made at the been undone, the results would have been better. But you can do that with any hockey team. Honestly, why do you make a bigger deal about the Barzal non-pick than any other poster on HF? Boston passed on him three times in a row. Do you hear them relentlessly harping about 'missed opportunities' three years after the fact? The reasoning behind the trade made a lot of sense. Unfortunately the information they relied on to choose the player in question was unquestionably biased and incredibly poor.

It's old news. What matters is the on-ice results. Which were poor, then good, then poor and now we're at a point where the GMs job is in crosshairs if it remains poor.

 

[belair]

Eh what significant salary commitments did the Oilers have as of May 2015? Cap flexibility was not a problem, it's only a problem now because Chiarelli did what Bruins fans warned us he would do -- spend a ton of money on mediocre grinder players.

Bs fans tried to warn us in 2015.

Good lord you have a distorted view of reality. I'm not doing your homework for you. Because regardless of what I post here, you'll ignore it.

 

[Soundwave]

Good lord you have a distorted view of reality. I'm not doing your homework for you. Because regardless of what I post here, you'll ignore it.

They had plenty of cap room in summer 2015, the reason they don't have much cap room is because of Lucic + Sekera + Russell signings, which you will hand wave away as having to be done, but they didn't have to be. We did not "have to" sign Milan Lucic in particular and he he is the biggest problem cap wise.

 

[belair]

This place is a cesspool.

It's been a cesspool for over a year. Nothing interesting happens in this thread.

 

[belair]

They had plenty of cap room in summer 2015, the reason they don't have much cap room is because of Lucic + Sekera + Russell signings, which you will hand wave away as having to be done, but they didn't have to be. We did not "have to" sign Milan Lucic in particular and he he is the biggest problem cap wise.

The Oilers did not have a lot of cap room in 2015-16. The available cap they did have was used to secure the top defensive free agent on the market, Andrej Sekera. Pouliot, Nikitin, Fayne, Gordon/Korpikoski and Ference tied up a significant chunk of cap space that was essentially dead cap, which could have been used to address other areas of the roster.

Regardless of how many times you say it, the Oilers were not in a good cap position. Especially when that boardroom knew full well they needed about $20m freed up by 2018.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers did not have a lot of cap room in 2015-16. The available cap they did have was used to secure the top defensive free agent on the market, Andrej Sekera. Pouliot, Nikitin, Fayne, Gordon/Korpikoski and Ference tied up a significant chunk of cap space that was essentially dead cap, which could have been used to address other areas of the roster.

Regardless of how many times you say it, the Oilers were not in a good cap position. Especially when that boardroom knew full well they needed about $20m freed up by 2018.

Cap was 71.4 million in 15-16.

Oilers notable salary for that season was

Hall + Eberle + RNH = 18
Schultz = $3
Fayne = $3.5
Ference = $3.2
Nikitin = 4.5
Pouliot = 4
Yakupov = 2.5
Draisaitl = 0.925
Nurse = 0.925
Purcell = 4
Sekera = 5.5
McDavid = 0.925
Talbot = 4

That's about $55 mill in salary give or take, they were in a very comfortable position cap wise. Even the "bad contracts" only had limited term on them (ie: Nikitin was expiring that year, so was Purcell, and Purcell was traded no fuss).

The Leafs actually were in a worse position cap wise, they had the Clarkson contract, which is far worse than any contract the Oilers had and also Kessel was hard to move because of his contract so they had to retain money on that.

 

[belair]

Cap was 71.4 million in 15-16.

Oilers notable salary for that season was

Hall + Eberle + RNH = 18
Schultz = $3
Fayne = $3.5
Ference = $3.2
Nikitin = 4.5
Pouliot = 4
Yakupov = 2.5
Draisaitl = 0.925
Nurse = 0.925
Purcell = 4
Sekera = 5.5
McDavid = 0.925
Talbot = 4

That's about $55 mill in salary give or take, they were in a very comfortable position cap wise. Even the "bad contracts" only had limited term on them (ie: Nikitin was expiring that year, so was Purcell, and Purcell was traded no fuss).

The Leafs actually were in a worse position cap wise, they had the Clarkson contract, which is far worse than any contract the Oilers had and also Kessel was hard to move because of his contract so they had to retain money on that.

When all was said and done in 2015-16, the Oilers had $2.6m in cap space and that's after they sold on guys like Purcell and Schultz. The 'bad contracts' that carried over into the following years were Fayne, Ference, Pouliot--and Korpikoski, who had to be bought out to free up additional cap for the next season's payroll--a sign that there wasn't as much cap to go around as you seem to think.

The biggest part of the cap situation isn't even about the 'bad contracts'. It's about how that money was allocated and for how long. They had their 'Hall and Eberle' contracts--players they could not afford to keep long-term--mainly JVR, Bozak and Komarov since Kessel was traded prior to the Leafs drafting Auston Matthews. So was Dion Phaneuf--so you should probably note that the gears were already well in motion prior to the team acquiring their franchise player. Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander all played their first full NHL seasons in 2016.

When we move farther down the rosters, the Leafs had Bozak, Kadri, Komarov, Gardiner, Reilly--a quality supporting cast locked into team-favorable deals. Their roster had the support to shelter the younger players from hard match-ups out of the gate. Our team had none of that. Andrej Sekera was our one true support on defense--and he played on the same side of the ice as our two raw defensemen.

Look even further down the rosters and there are little gems like Zach Hyman and Connor Brown ready to take on key roles. Meanwhile we're struggling to get anything out of our farm system. Even the little call-ups they made showed well in the short periods they played.

I can't stress how much better a situation the Leafs were in when they drafted Auston Matthews. Their 'dead cap' was literally all LTIR--ours were active players taking up roster spots.

 

[Soundwave]

When all was said and done in 2015-16, the Oilers had $2.6m in cap space and that's after they sold on guys like Purcell and Schultz. The 'bad contracts' that carried over into the following years were Fayne, Ference, Pouliot--and Korpikoski, who had to be bought out to free up additional cap for the next season's payroll--a sign that there wasn't as much cap to go around as you seem to think.

The biggest part of the cap situation isn't even about the 'bad contracts'. It's about how that money was allocated and for how long. They had their 'Hall and Eberle' contracts--players they could not afford to keep long-term--mainly JVR, Bozak and Komarov since Kessel was traded prior to the Leafs drafting Auston Matthews. So was Dion Phaneuf--so you should probably note that the gears were already well in motion prior to the team acquiring their franchise player. Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander all played their first full NHL seasons in 2016.

When we move farther down the rosters, the Leafs had Bozak, Kadri, Komarov, Gardiner, Reilly--a quality supporting cast locked into team-favorable deals. Their roster had the support to shelter the younger players from hard match-ups out of the gate. Our team had none of that. Andrej Sekera was our one true support on defense--and he played on the same side of the ice as our two raw defensemen.

Look even further down the rosters and there are little gems like Zach Hyman and Connor Brown ready to take on key roles. Meanwhile we're struggling to get anything out of our farm system. Even the little call-ups they made showed well in the short periods they played.

I can't stress how much better a situation the Leafs were in when they drafted Auston Matthews. Their 'dead cap' was literally all LTIR--ours were active players taking up roster spots.

They could very easily have kept their choice of Hall or Eberle by not blowing a ton of money on Lucic.


Kadri was not some superhot commodity a few years ago either and Gardiner's value was marginally better than Schultz if at all.

The Leafs had real cap issues with Clarkson upfront, Lupul, Kessel, but they were able to get out of those issues.

No one expected the Leafs to make the playoffs in 16-17 (Matthews' rookie season).

 

[MessierII]

Scotty Bowman couldn’t do anything with this roster right?

 

[Jet Walters]

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I mean he still needs to be fired. Lucic and Sekera contracts are complete anchors at this point.

 

[Skolman]

 

[McBigYak]

It's funny because Sportsnet kind of deemed this a "vote of confidence".

If anything, to me, this is a playoffs or GTFO. Hardly a vote of confidence, it's more of an ultimatum.

 

[Skolman]

It's funny because Sportsnet kind of deemed this a "vote of confidence".

If anything, to me, this is a playoffs or GTFO. Hardly a vote of confidence, it's more of an ultimatum.

It just sucks that it's basically a lose-lose situation.

I'd obviously rather have the playoffs though, but still. Long-term it hurts.

 

[space321]

Imagine getting McDavid and Draisaitl in their early 20s, and making the playoffs is the benchmark to keep your job... sigh

 

[McBigYak]

It just sucks that it's basically a lose-lose situation.

I'd obviously rather have the playoffs though, but still. Long-term it hurts.

Yeah, I'm so sick and tired of missing the playoffs that I'd rather make it. If we had made the playoffs more than 1 time in over a decade, I honestly may want the team to miss this year so he's gone. But it's just been too long.

 

[Jet Walters]

This really puts you guys in a tough spot.

 

[belair]

Imagine getting McDavid and Draisaitl in their early 20s, and making the playoffs is the benchmark to keep your job... sigh

This comment has been repeated here ad nauseam. It's as tunnel-visioned now as it was on page one.

 

[Skolman]

View attachment 162971
Yakupov over Lucic by a landslide. This speaks volumes about Chias unmovable contract.

HF hates the Oilers and Lucic, this isn't a surprise.