Fire Bowman

[hockeydoug]

This is very funny to me how people can brainwash themselves so much to acquit Stan from all his wrong doings, the guy is clueless when it comes to trades, if this is true that McD made all the big moves to keep the stars here better for hockey bla bla bla, why on earth was Panarin traded for Saad? All trades were 100% on Stan, the loss of Danault, TT, Saad(the first for AA), Panarin, Leddy for nothing, meh sharp trade, Joker for tools and potential etc. etc. Let’s just call a spade a spade, if you have proof that McD interferes and made this trades for Stan please present them, how about the Kubalik trade did McD have anything to do with that one or what? There is a lot of bs claims here.

Who aquitted him of all his wrongdoings? I still think they should have moved Bolland in 10'. Manning, Montador, lots of depth FA contracts flopped. Bickell was paid market value, but I disagreed that they should have kept him. I thought he could have structured several contracts differently in terms of salary and bonus money. He swung with marginal assets over and over again to get a RD but it failed.

Most of the trades were cap related, the gain was capspace. Hawks didn't smoke Carolina on the DeHaan trade, it was about real and cap dollars for them.

As far as McD proof goes, see Chicago Cubs. Who tore down and rebuilt hockey ops? Kane and Toews extensions (days before the convention), Boquist (Zawaski's source), Hossa over Havlat (especially with capageddon coming), making Q highest paid coach in the league?

Sure, maybe Stan has dirt on Rocky but I don't see how the gm gets to make more big decisions on direction of the team over the owner, owner's partners, president, and senior vp of hockey ops...not many places in the world where the number 4 or 5 on the authority list gets to pick the direction and make of the primary product.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Two years ago, this would be more attractive.

They have to make major decisions on no less than 2 dozen players over the next 24 months. It will decide if they suck or become a good team again. Bringing in a new guy throws years of work out the window. It will be very much like giving the system to Pulford/Tallon after firing Smith. Even if the new guys can work effectively, they're going to make a ton of unnecessary mistakes. Too much to evaluate with new eyes right now. Guys moving the right way will shift as coaches and staff turnover, maybe it will be offset by improvement on other players, but either way, the likelihood of mistakes increases.

Give it a year I say. You'll have more known commodities under contract, then a decent replacement will be able to make a decent plan without as much guesswork.

Right, in hindsight it would have been better a season or 2 ago. For me, the issue is last offseason. Spending to the cap was completely unexpected to me given the state of the team/resources. The moves were risky too, 3 year commitments to Shaw and CDH. I just will never understand that. Even if it was McDonough or Wirtz’s idea to add veterans, they were poor choices that are creating cap problems now. If he hadn’t made all of those deals together, I wouldn’t be against another year. They lead me to believe he is past his expiration date on making any more decisions.

 

[HeisenBaez]

The only move Bowman gets blame for without any kind of defense from me is Brent Seabrook.

 

[hockeydoug]

Right, in hindsight it would have been better a season or 2 ago. For me, the issue is last offseason. Spending to the cap was completely unexpected to me given the state of the team/resources. The moves were risky too, 3 year commitments to Shaw and CDH. I just will never understand that. Even if it was McDonough or Wirtz’s idea to add veterans, they were poor choices that are creating cap problems now. If he hadn’t made all of those deals together, I wouldn’t be against another year. They lead me to believe he is past his expiration date on making any more decisions.

We're seeing the same nonsense.

We have enough bears fans and cubs fans seeing the ridiculousness of last offseason, clear as day to anyone...yet we see a more developed Joker traded for a long term project and a commitment to making Mitchell work...and then burning a year of Boquist's deal when the season was already over, that's some bipolar stuff. Colliton doesn't stay there if the entire organization wants to win now, he's a project too, and everyone knows it. It's not like he was a Hartsburgh type of up and comer. Yet they made several moves for veterans wiping out flexibility to develop several of the young cost controlled players.

I have a real tough time believing that Rocky and little Rocky couldn't see the same thing. To me it looks like McD or even Rocky wanted to keep "win now" mode for sales/business reasons as is very common in the sports entertainment business. It looked like it stepped on hockey ops. Otherwise I think we would have seen Bowman promoted up or sideways and out of the way. Rocky executed a good plan when he took over, why wouldn't he address something glaringly obvious to non hockey fans? Maybe Rocky is an idiot or loyalist, I just haven't seen that.

I don't think Rocky is a water walker, but he's been thorough about looking out for his primary interest, it wouldn't make sense to keep Bowman at the table if he was really "the guy" driving hockey ops' direction.


On another note, can somebody tell me what the hell MacIsaac has been doing for 20 years?

 

[Hawkaholic]

Here we go, another year of mediocrity.

 

[JaegerDice]

Here we go, another year of mediocrity.

Or another lottery pick. Which the team badly needs.

The team doesn't have enough depth, and the cupboards only have potential fringe players.

Our best prospects are in the lineup.

We need more blue-chips.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

It doesn’t matter what we as fans want. Its pretty much a given that Colliton, Bowman, and a large percentage of this roster will be back. Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook another year older and back in the lineup. Probably have Crawford back. It will likely be very similar to this past season.

 

[Blackhawks]

Looks like it’s gonna be similar results for the next few years as expected, 20M in dead cap space which kills any team, management not being held accountable, give him a golden parachute already, excuse my hyperbolic reaction guys

 

[Joe Scaduto]

I think a coaching change is needed more than firing bowman....i like his last few drafts and free agent signings .This team is not far off being a contender.The hawks need to tweak line up with some of their prospects

 

[Blackhawks]

I think a coaching change is needed more than firing bowman....i like his last few drafts and free agent signings .This team is not far off being a contender.The hawks need to tweak line up with some of their prospects

Not far from a contender based on what? Finished 23rd in points and got smashed by the first place team it was embarrassing. I mean with the parity in the league one can argue that they are much closer to a bottom feeder than they are to a contender lol, they are a bubble team 7-12 team at best. With Cat getting a new inflated contract and it doesn’t seem like he’s a playoff performer, bad team Defense all around, guys like Strome/Nylander struggling as guys who the team was counting on to perform and elevate the team, young D 3-4 years away from truly performing, aging guys like Keith who is still the best D on the team at 37, 10M+(20M at several points this year)in dead cap space, aging Toews and Kane, etc. I don’t see the team doing anything of value until the contracts of Shaw and Seabrook are off the book and possibly even Cat if he performs like he did this year but I am optimistic that won’t case for him but who knows, this team needs a complete overhaul. I am not seeing what the optimists are seeing, the realist in me just doesn’t see it.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Hawks have kinda gotten screwed a lot on the cap ceiling since 2015...Toews and Kane deals kicked in and oil tanked and now covid...Seems like every time they add long term cap dollars in recent years the cap ceiling growth stalls...

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Hawks have kinda gotten screwed a lot on the cap ceiling since 2015...Toews and Kane deals kicked in and oil tanked and now covid...Seems like every time they add long term cap dollars in recent years the cap ceiling growth stalls...

They were lucky to be very healthy throughout the cup runs and have been unlucky with the cap ceiling. The cap ceiling was supposed to be like 90 million or some shit by now.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

They were lucky to be very healthy throughout the cup runs and have been unlucky with the cap ceiling. The cap ceiling was supposed to be like 90 million or some shit by now.

100% and ya take the cups and run every time...we were lucky as hell as fans to never experience a 17 seconds during the glory days of hawks hockey...closest thing was the martinez goal in game 7 of the 2014 wcf and they got redemption the following year...so it's hard to complain too much about getting f***ed with contracts like seabrook, smith, shaw, de haan etc, but it is sort of spoiling the later years for toews, kane and keith

 

[Kevin Musto]

What do you think Stan listens to on his airpods?

 

[Hawkaholic]

100% and ya take the cups and run every time...we were lucky as hell as fans to never experience a 17 seconds during the glory days of hawks hockey...closest thing was the martinez goal in game 7 of the 2014 wcf and they got redemption the following year...so it's hard to complain too much about getting f***ed with contracts like seabrook, smith, shaw, de haan etc, but it is sort of spoiling the later years for toews, kane and keith

But for Toews and Kane, they did it to themselves. They wanted 12mil, settled for 10.5. They could have taken discounts for like 9mil and it would have been a huge help. I get why it happened, but they are a part of the blame for asking for so much.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

But for Toews and Kane, they did it to themselves. They wanted 12mil, settled for 10.5. They could have taken discounts for like 9mil and it would have been a huge help. I get why it happened, but they are a part of the blame for asking for so much.

There were also some rumors of there being pressure on them from the PA to take as much as they could right? Seem to remember they sort of set the bar for a lot of new 8 year deals just after they became a thing in the then new CBA...but yeah they could've taken less for sure...

 

[BobbyJet]

They were lucky to be very healthy throughout the cup runs and have been unlucky with the cap ceiling. The cap ceiling was supposed to be like 90 million or some shit by now.

Arguably Stan's worst mistake was his gamble that the cap ceiling was about to rise significantly. That miscalculation should have been the beginning of the end for Bowman as the Hawk GM but as I said in a previous post, Stan is a Teflon man.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Arguably Stan's worst mistake was his gamble that the cap ceiling was about to rise significantly. That miscalculation should have been the beginning of the end for Bowman as the Hawk GM but as I said in a previous post, Stan is a Teflon man.

Stan has honestly been his own worst enemy in some ways in that he built up all this organizational talent then kind of gave it away...post cup 2015 offseason was really a major major setback for the org...Trading Sharp and taking back a bunch of salary in Daley and Garbutt who were moved two months into the season for Scuderi and Sekac who were then traded for Erhoff and Panik, all within the first four months of the season, abysmal pro scouting...Then traded Saad to CBJ for Anisimov and proceeded to pay him only 1.5m less AAV with the same term and a NMC for the first 4 years before he ever played a game...why??...Dano and Garbutt were flops which lead them to trade for Weise and Fleischman which cost them Danault...Then they were in cap hell and had to trade Teravainen to remove the Bickell contract...This org could be in a far better place if they got that summer right because it really did lead up to an exodus of some really good to elite players from the org...You could argue they should still have at least Danault and Turbo...Easily could've added Schmaltz to Bickell to dump that contract, they made a big mistep there deciding who to attach to that contract...And Danault and a 2nd for two fourth liners was all time bad...also made zero sense given how much Barry Smith allegedly liked Danault and how much time they invested into his development

 

[Styles]

What do you think Stan listens to on his airpods?

Nickleback

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Nickleback

 

[Kevin Musto]

Nickleback

Man, that'd be really disappointing. I'm hoping he's more of a Kenny Loggins kinda guy.

 

[Styles]

Man, that'd be really disappointing. I'm hoping he's more of a Kenny Loggins kinda guy.

Uncle Kracker

 

[Muffinalt]

Stan has honestly been his own worst enemy in some ways in that he built up all this organizational talent then kind of gave it away...post cup 2015 offseason was really a major major setback for the org...Trading Sharp and taking back a bunch of salary in Daley and Garbutt who were moved two months into the season for Scuderi and Sekac who were then traded for Erhoff and Panik, all within the first four months of the season, abysmal pro scouting...Then traded Saad to CBJ for Anisimov and proceeded to pay him only 1.5m less AAV with the same term and a NMC for the first 4 years before he ever played a game...why??...Dano and Garbutt were flops which lead them to trade for Weise and Fleischman which cost them Danault...Then they were in cap hell and had to trade Teravainen to remove the Bickell contract...This org could be in a far better place if they got that summer right because it really did lead up to an exodus of some really good to elite players from the org...You could argue they should still have at least Danault and Turbo...Easily could've added Schmaltz to Bickell to dump that contract, they made a big mistep there deciding who to attach to that contract...And Danault and a 2nd for two fourth liners was all time bad...also made zero sense given how much Barry Smith allegedly liked Danault and how much time they invested into his development

Yeah Danault is the one the really hurts. The one that got away. He's such a beauty and a typical Hawks style player.

But no GM is perfect.

 

[GaryU]

But for Toews and Kane, they did it to themselves. They wanted 12mil, settled for 10.5. They could have taken discounts for like 9mil and it would have been a huge help. I get why it happened, but they are a part of the blame for asking for so much.

Not to mention Stan's 'amount + tip' negotiating style. I'm certain McDLT wanted the Hawks to have the 1st $10m player(s), that shoulda been it. Let's just say Stan is real generous.

 

[BobbyJet]

Stan has honestly been his own worst enemy in some ways in that he built up all this organizational talent then kind of gave it away...post cup 2015 offseason was really a major major setback for the org...Trading Sharp and taking back a bunch of salary in Daley and Garbutt who were moved two months into the season for Scuderi and Sekac who were then traded for Erhoff and Panik, all within the first four months of the season, abysmal pro scouting...Then traded Saad to CBJ for Anisimov and proceeded to pay him only 1.5m less AAV with the same term and a NMC for the first 4 years before he ever played a game...why??...Dano and Garbutt were flops which lead them to trade for Weise and Fleischman which cost them Danault...Then they were in cap hell and had to trade Teravainen to remove the Bickell contract...This org could be in a far better place if they got that summer right because it really did lead up to an exodus of some really good to elite players from the org...You could argue they should still have at least Danault and Turbo...Easily could've added Schmaltz to Bickell to dump that contract, they made a big mistep there deciding who to attach to that contract...And Danault and a 2nd for two fourth liners was all time bad...also made zero sense given how much Barry Smith allegedly liked Danault and how much time they invested into his development

That pretty much says it all. It gets uglier when spelled out like that.