Fire Bowman

[hockeydoug]

i don’t think MCD had a ton of power but he certainly wielded it when it came with the big established players as they seemed to sign them all to above market deals (save for maybe Bickell)

Pretty sure McD drove all the major decisions. He was big on marketing timing, like signing Toews and Kane to gigantic deals with movement clauses a few days before the convention. If that wasn't McD, I don't know what was. There are lots of examples when the Hawks raced to get something done with hockeyops to capitalize on timing and headlines, piggy backing off of another team's active news days, during season ticket and sponsorship pushes. He did the same with the Cubs, effectively.

We'll get a year of Bowman without the meddling, it should be easier to see which brain brought in Maatta and Shaw and which one was focused on keeping Mitchell in the system and addressing the weakness of forward prospects. Somebody had a decent agenda, hopefully it was Bowman since he's still there.

Cracks me up that a Chicago fan, who consumes Chicago media, would think McDonough wasn't very hands on. Lots of similarities between the post 2004 Cubs and last few years of the Hawks. He was a win now, win always guy...regardless of whether or not that could work. Keep the fans wanting to buy, etc.

 

[Jay haller]

Pretty sure McD drove all the major decisions. He was big on marketing timing, like signing Toews and Kane to gigantic deals with movement clauses a few days before the convention. If that wasn't McD, I don't know what was. There are lots of examples when the Hawks raced to get something done with hockeyops to capitalize on timing and headlines, piggy backing off of another team's active news days, during season ticket and sponsorship pushes. He did the same with the Cubs, effectively.

We'll get a year of Bowman without the meddling, it should be easier to see which brain brought in Maatta and Shaw and which one was focused on keeping Mitchell in the system and addressing the weakness of forward prospects. Somebody had a decent agenda, hopefully it was Bowman since he's still there.

Cracks me up that a Chicago fan, who consumes Chicago media, would think McDonough wasn't very hands on. Lots of similarities between the post 2004 Cubs and last few years of the Hawks. He was a win now, win always guy...regardless of whether or not that could work. Keep the fans wanting to buy, etc.

I should have clarified, I don’t think he cared a ton about lower half of the roster. He focused on the top half of the roster which killed any depth because he used his power to placate the stars who bring in sponsorships and whatnot. Which lead to contracts like seabrook/toews and Kane and because they overpaid placating those stars they hindered their depth because they are in a cap league.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Mc D was / is a marketing genius. He turned the fan base around after old man Wirtz passed away

That didn't take a genius, all it took was a great on ice product and televise home games. POOF Hawks were then thee team just like in the 60s.

The rest of the marketing stuff is superfluous.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Pretty sure McD drove all the major decisions. He was big on marketing timing, like signing Toews and Kane to gigantic deals with movement clauses a few days before the convention. If that wasn't McD, I don't know what was. There are lots of examples when the Hawks raced to get something done with hockeyops to capitalize on timing and headlines, piggy backing off of another team's active news days, during season ticket and sponsorship pushes. He did the same with the Cubs, effectively.

We'll get a year of Bowman without the meddling, it should be easier to see which brain brought in Maatta and Shaw and which one was focused on keeping Mitchell in the system and addressing the weakness of forward prospects. Somebody had a decent agenda, hopefully it was Bowman since he's still there.

Cracks me up that a Chicago fan, who consumes Chicago media, would think McDonough wasn't very hands on. Lots of similarities between the post 2004 Cubs and last few years of the Hawks. He was a win now, win always guy...regardless of whether or not that could work. Keep the fans wanting to buy, etc.

but you have clearly already made up your mind about what you think happened. why could that not be the same person?

 

[Mickey the mouse]

You

That didn't take a genius, all it took was a great on ice product and televise home games. POOF Hawks were then thee team just like in the 60s.

The rest of the marketing stuff is superfluous.

you're totally wrong it's not superfluous

McD hired a handfull of people to get the hockey community involved. Hired the Ambassadors to get involved with Businesses ( Golf outings, Dinners, Guest appearances, etc )

Most importantly Amy Caimens to reach out to all of the youth hockey Orgs around city and State and get them involved with Org outings to games, kids skating between periods and before games, etc

 

[ChiHawks10]

You

you're totally wrong it's not superfluous

McD hired a handfull of people to get the hockey community involved. Hired the Ambassadors to get involved with Businesses ( Golf outings, Dinners, Guest appearances, etc )

Most importantly Amy Caimens to reach out to all of the youth hockey Orgs around city and State and get them involved with Org outings to games, kids skating between periods and before games, etc

I skated between periods and before Hawks games when I was 10-12 years old... which was the mid 90s... and had club outings to games, etc.

 

[Blackhawks]

This is very funny to me how people can brainwash themselves so much to acquit Stan from all his wrong doings, the guy is clueless when it comes to trades, if this is true that McD made all the big moves to keep the stars here better for hockey bla bla bla, why on earth was Panarin traded for Saad? All trades were 100% on Stan, the loss of Danault, TT, Saad(the first for AA), Panarin, Leddy for nothing, meh sharp trade, Joker for tools and potential etc. etc. Let’s just call a spade a spade, if you have proof that McD interferes and made this trades for Stan please present them, how about the Kubalik trade did McD have anything to do with that one or what? There is a lot of bs claims here.

 

[ChiHawks10]

This is very funny to me how people can brainwash themselves so much to acquit Stan from all his wrong doings, the guy is clueless when it comes to trades, if this is true that McD made all the big moves to keep the stars here better for hockey bla bla bla, why on earth was Panarin traded for Saad? All trades were 100% on Stan, the loss of Danault, Tat, Saad(the first for AA), Panarin, Leddy for nothing, meh sharp trade, Joker for tools and potential etc. etc. Let’s just call a spade a spade, if you have proof that McD interferes and made this trades for Stan please present them, how about the Kubalik trade did McD have anything to do with that one or what? There is a lot of bs claims here.

Do you ever think before you type? Do you ever read anything that anyone writes? Or just constantly make shit up in your head?

Literally NO ONE is acquitting Stan from all his wrong doings. You make this idiotic claim all the time, when it's just not true. Not even close. Then when someone explains to you the moves that they think fall on Bowman, you start going off on a tangent with shit that is entirely unrelated to what was being discussed. People in this thread are just pointing out specific moves where anyone with half a brain can see that Stan wasn't the only one involved in the decision... If you think that Stan, and Stan alone makes the decisions on signings, trades, etc., then you're a moron.

McDonough had a reputation for meddling, btw, and did long before he ever came to the Hawks. You wouldn't know that, though, because you're a 15 year old kid from Canada. Cubs fans despised him, and were ecstatic that he was gone when the Hawks brought him over.

The rumors and rumblings from the Chicago sports media are that McDouche wanted the team to be HIS team. He wanted full control. Rocky didn't like that, considering it's the Wirtz family who owns it, and calls the shots. So McDouche was served his walking papers.

 

[Blackhawks]

Do you ever think before you type? Do you ever read anything that anyone writes? Or just constantly make shit up in your head?

Literally NO ONE is acquitting Stan from all his wrong doings. You make this idiotic claim all the time, when it's just not true. Not even close. Then when someone explains to you the moves that they think fall on Bowman, you start going off on a tangent with shit that is entirely unrelated to what was being discussed. People in this thread are just pointing out specific moves where anyone with half a brain can see that Stan wasn't the only one involved in the decision... If you think that Stan, and Stan alone makes the decisions on signings, trades, etc., then you're a moron.

McDonough had a reputation for meddling, btw, and did long before he ever came to the Hawks. You wouldn't know that, though, because you're a 15 year old kid from Canada. Cubs fans despised him, and were ecstatic that he was gone when the Hawks brought him over.

The rumors and rumblings from the Chicago sports media are that McDouche wanted the team to be HIS team. He wanted full control. Rocky didn't like that, considering it's the Wirtz family who owns it, and calls the shots. So McDouche was served his walking papers.

Bro you want him to stay after he ran the team into the ground, what are you rambling on about just stop, you say no one is acquitting him followed by paragraphs of beating around the bush of excuses for him... lol

 

[ChiHawks10]

Bro you want him to stay after he ran the team into the ground, what are rambling on about just stop, you say no one is acquitting him followed by paragraphs of beating around the bush of acquiring him... lol

The same response you always give when someone calls you out for saying stupid shit, and making unprovable claims. Act confused, and pretend like someone is saying something difficult to comprehend. This is your go-to when someone makes you look f***ing stupid.

My post acquits him of nothing. Zero. Nada. There is no "beating around the bush" acquitting him in my post. My post has barely anything to do with Bowman...

Run along, lunch time for online learning must be over by now.

 

[Blackhawks]

The same response you always give when someone calls you out for saying stupid shit, and making unprovable claims. Act confused, and pretend like someone is saying something difficult to comprehend. This is your go-to when someone makes you look f***ing stupid.

My post acquits him of nothing. Zero. Nada. There is no "beating around the bush" acquitting him in my post. My post has barely anything to do with Bowman...

Run along, lunch time for online learning must be over by now.

That’s hilarious you say that because your thoughts are not even your thoughts, you and company have been giving the SAME response for YEARS of how Stan’s hands have been tied by McD lol, the team is garbage yet you continue to make excuses one way or another and call it “objective” and anything else is a hyperbole lol

 

[ChiHawks10]

That’s hilarious you say that because your thoughts are not even your thoughts, you and company have been giving the SAME response for YEARS of how Stan’s hands have been tied by McD lol, the team is garbage yet you continue to make excuses one way or another and call it “objective” and anything else is a hyperbole lol

More nonsense.

This is essentially how all your posts read:

"I can't address anything someone said with intelligent thought, so I'll just distract and deflect to nonsense that no one ever said, all the time."

My thoughts aren't even my thoughts? What?

Not a single person on here has ever claimed that Stan's "hands have been tied by McD". Not one person. Ever. Lol.

"a hyperbole"

 

[Blackhawks]

More nonsense.

This is essentially how all your posts read:

"I can't address anything someone said with intelligent thought, so I'll just distract and deflect to nonsense that no one ever said, all the time."

Not a single person on here has ever claimed that Stan's "hands have been tied by McD". Not one person. Ever. Lol.

"a hyperbole"

What do you mean that’s not a single person has said that, maybe not those exact words but there are pages upon pages of people saying McD wanted this to be his team and had a huge hand is all moves, come on now mate your excuses don’t ever end. Maybe if the Hawks miss the playoffs for the next 5 years maybe you will get it? I guess some people are just late to the party.

 

[ChiHawks10]

What do you mean that’s not a single person has said that, maybe not those exact words but there are pages upon pages of people saying McD wanted this to be his team and had a huge hand is all moves, come on now mate your excuses don’t ever end. Maybe if the Hawks miss the playoffs for the next 5 years maybe you will get it? I guess some people are just late to the party.

Yes, there are pages of people saying McD wanted this to be HIS team... because that's what everyone, including the Hawks media has said... Basically McDouchebag went on a power trip, wanted control, and Rocky sent him packing for it.

No one on here has ever said he "had a huge hand in all moves". People have said he had his hands in SOME moves. How the f*** do you not comprehend the difference in those things?

I didn't give a single excuse anywhere in any of these posts. I'm calling you out for your usual nonsense. Because that's all you know how to post. Nonsense. Useless, made-up, nonsense.

 

[Blackhawks]

Yes, there are pages of people saying McD wanted this to be HIS team... because that's what everyone, including the Hawks media has said... Basically McDouchebag went on a power trip, wanted control, and Rocky sent him packing for it.

No one on here has ever said he "had a huge hand in all moves". People have said he had his hands in SOME moves. How the f*** do you not comprehend the difference in those things?

I didn't give a single excuse anywhere in any of these posts. I'm calling you out for your usual nonsense. Because that's all you know how to post. Nonsense. Useless, made-up, nonsense.

Can you tell me which moves he had his hands in and which he didn’t? Maybe McD was responsible for the good moves? Do you know for a fact which is which because the only reason some still think he should still have a job right now is that whole pushed McD conspiracy theory pushed by media or not, no one knows the exact details.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Most importantly Amy Caimens to reach out to all of the youth hockey Orgs around city and State

Don't get me started on Ms. Caimens, not a fan.

 

[BobbyJet]

Stan is a teflon man.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Yes, there are pages of people saying McD wanted this to be HIS team... because that's what everyone, including the Hawks media has said... Basically McDouchebag went on a power trip, wanted control, and Rocky sent him packing for it.

No one on here has ever said he "had a huge hand in all moves". People have said he had his hands in SOME moves. How the f*** do you not comprehend the difference in those things?

I didn't give a single excuse anywhere in any of these posts. I'm calling you out for your usual nonsense. Because that's all you know how to post. Nonsense. Useless, made-up, nonsense.

Don’t even waste your time

 

[Putt Pirate]

• You say this sooooooo f***ing much, and it's such a ridiculous statement. If you can't see that this team isn't far off (just a couple pieces and some growth)from being a regular playoff team, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.

Well, if not being far off means we need a 1,2, and 3 D we are on the cusp! Seriously, we have so many needs at the moment. The D and the 3/4 lines, PP, PK (and proper roster does a good one) are just some starters.

I have been a supporter of Stan but did vote it is time for him to go. And a different view on things as the direction the team goes in the near future is needed. Many of his fails have already been mentioned with JC being named as coach, keeping him as coach, contract mismanagement being his obvious flaws. He is good at Euro FAs, draft probably a B-. But I really have no faith in this guy.

In all honesty, we are going nowhere until 88, 19, 7 contracts are done. Just the way it is.

 

[BobbyJet]

Well, if not being far off means we need a 1,2, and 3 D we are on the cusp! Seriously, we have so many needs at the moment. The D and the 3/4 lines, PP, PK (and proper roster does a good one) are just some starters.

I have been a supporter of Stan but did vote it is time for him to go. And a different view on things as the direction the team goes in the near future is needed. Many of his fails have already been mentioned with JC being named as coach, keeping him as coach, contract mismanagement being his obvious flaws. He is good at Euro FAs, draft probably a B-. But I really have no faith in this guy.

In all honesty, we are going nowhere until 88, 19, 7 contracts are done. Just the way it is.

Ouch.

 

[Northernhawk]

This is very funny to me how people can brainwash themselves so much to acquit Stan from all his wrong doings, the guy is clueless when it comes to trades, if this is true that McD made all the big moves to keep the stars here better for hockey bla bla bla, why on earth was Panarin traded for Saad? All trades were 100% on Stan, the loss of Danault, TT, Saad(the first for AA), Panarin, Leddy for nothing, meh sharp trade, Joker for tools and potential etc. etc. Let’s just call a spade a spade, if you have proof that McD interferes and made this trades for Stan please present them, how about the Kubalik trade did McD have anything to do with that one or what? There is a lot of bs claims here.

Sure I get it Bowman has made some pretty crappy deals but Bowman did have to deal with salary cap issue, Bowman took a 2010 Cup winning team and worked it into a team that won 10 of 11 playoff rounds from 2013-2015
Bowman decided that Hjalmarsson was more important to keep as a core piece at the cost of Andrew Ladd, Antti Niemi and Marty Reasoner(remember him) knowing that he had Crawford earning his strips in Rockford

Bowman added key pieces in Michal Frolik, Johnny Oduya, Michal Rozsival and Michal Handzus

As for Nick Leddy and Teuvo Teravainen well they were cap casualties...Oduya over Leddy was the decision enter 2015 Cup, Bickell got paid for his near Conn Smythe 2013 playoff, Bickell got the cash Big Buff could have received back in 2010...so when Bickells money didn't fit anymore TT had to be added to move it, but Bowman knew he had Schmaltz in the system...TT got paid, Schmaltz was moved for Strome...Schmaltz got paid

Bowman added Brad Richards, Antoine Vermette, David Rundblad, Kris Versteeg(again), Andrew Desjardins and Scott Darling

Bowman signed Antti Niemi, Antti Raanta, Artemi Panarin, Michael Kempny, Jan Rutta, David Kampf we all know his history of finding these gems...does anyone remember he almost had a Norwegian Olympic star signed? Mats Zuccerallo? He was soooooo close to being a Hawk.

Bowman never pulled the 'all in tradedeadline' like the other pretenders did...except for a very uncharactistic 2014 when he traded for Ladd, Weiss and Fleischmann at the cost of picks and promissint prospects Dano and Danault...this I believe was a one off, out of character attempt to pull a repeat

Drafted Kevin Hayes, then traded for his brother, man Hayes would look good here

Bowman traded for Dominik Kubalik and has continued with his mining of Europe with Suter and possibly Chalupa being up next

Trading Saad for Anisimov was fair, really loved the Kane-Anisimov-Panarin line

Moving Panarin back to get Saad may have been a bust but it didn't cost us like it cost Columbus when he walked for the cash and Chicago still has another year of Saad and that will play out in the next year

All of Bowmans drafts minus the McDavid-Eichel draft were successes...mine you Bowman did eventually grab Dylan Strome up...but all of Kevin Hayes, Brandon Saad, Teuvo Teravainen, Ryan Hartman, Nick Schmaltz, Alex Debrincat, Henri Jokiharju, Adam Boqvist and Kirby Dach were above his draft selection picks...add in Holl, Johns, Nordstrom, Danault, Shaw, Hinostoza, Dahlstrom, Hayden, Motte, etc proves his talent assessment

Next up? Ian Mitchell, Evan Barratt, Michal Teply, Nicholas Beaudin, Philipp Kirashev and Lucas Carlsson

Layoff the fire Bowman

 

[hockeydoug]

I should have clarified, I don’t think he cared a ton about lower half of the roster. He focused on the top half of the roster which killed any depth because he used his power to placate the stars who bring in sponsorships and whatnot. Which lead to contracts like seabrook/toews and Kane and because they overpaid placating those stars they hindered their depth because they are in a cap league.

No, I don't think he cared about the bottom half of the roster either. That's why I'm in favor of keeping Bowman around, the actual hockey-hockey stuff works well for the Hawks. Drafting, scouting, value of marginal trades, managing the 50 contract limit, contract structures of depth players, goalie coach hires, scouting hires, etc.

McD drove the agenda of hockey ops imo, the Toews and Kane extensions dictated everything, just like Sid and Malkin or OV.

At least now we'll see how the hockey side really functions with a ton of big decisions to make on their own...

Unless MacIsaac is a monster.

 

[ColdSteel2]

They don’t have to fry him, lol, but I hope they at least consider other candidates for the job. It would be nice for the team to get a fresh start, building off the good of the previous regime and bringing in fresh unbiased eyes to diagnose the problems and correct them. It must be difficult for anyone to be in the position that long and remain pragmatic and objective.

 

[hockeydoug]

but you have clearly already made up your mind about what you think happened. why could that not be the same person?

Yes, it could be one person, but this would be the worst scenario, that Rocky is betting on someone with a psychiatric condition. Bowman is a sociopath that has duped the 4 people above him or ignored hockey ops to make time to dig up and keep dirt on people.

For example:

Bringing in a mid 9 project, relying on 18 year old Dach for the year, and giving up skill and experience at RD (relative skill and experience) doesn't match a theme.. Shaw, spending all the cap bucks, sometimes for multiple years, bringing up long shot immediate blue chip like Boquist, etc. screams of winning now. If all of hockey ops was on board with winning now, they move on from Mitchell like they did Hayes, and Joker sticks around for the year as depth.

Anyway, I see two brains at work, not one. I may be wrong, this front office keeps tight lips, but I think McD was the win-now guy and Bowman was the "we suck for a bit, need to rebuild" guy.

I may still want Bowman gone in a year, I'm not sure, I just think he had the better plan and means to execute that plan moving forward.

 

[hockeydoug]

They don’t have to fry him, lol, but I hope they at least consider other candidates for the job. It would be nice for the team to get a fresh start, building off the good of the previous regime and bringing in fresh unbiased eyes to diagnose the problems and correct them. It must be difficult for anyone to be in the position that long and remain pragmatic and objective.

Two years ago, this would be more attractive.

They have to make major decisions on no less than 2 dozen players over the next 24 months. It will decide if they suck or become a good team again. Bringing in a new guy throws years of work out the window. It will be very much like giving the system to Pulford/Tallon after firing Smith. Even if the new guys can work effectively, they're going to make a ton of unnecessary mistakes. Too much to evaluate with new eyes right now. Guys moving the right way will shift as coaches and staff turnover, maybe it will be offset by improvement on other players, but either way, the likelihood of mistakes increases.

Give it a year I say. You'll have more known commodities under contract, then a decent replacement will be able to make a decent plan without as much guesswork.