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Fire Bowman

Should Stan the Man be fried?

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Toews2Bickell

Toews2Bickell

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Nov 24, 2013
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BobbyJet said:
As I said in the Maata trade thread:

Patchwork is no way to get back to respectability. The GM has backed himself into a corner and can't get out.

Stan must go, Replace him with someone who manages with his head, not his heart.
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If they're so committed to the retool route then why is Stan being given the entirety of Toews/Kane/Keith remaining productive years...He's had 3 years since the 1st round sweep that kicked off his retool and mostly failed, it's time to move on...Rocky is really about to give him the remaining years for 19/88/2 to see if Stan can figure it out at some point? It's nonsense
 

Jay haller

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Oct 22, 2017
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Fire stan! Bring in Burke or Keenan! Can’t let an O6 team be run by some flavor of the month assistant GM from tampa or Chayka need a proven hockey mind.

Chia come on down!!!
 
ChiHawk21

ChiHawk21

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Jan 15, 2011
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i know nobody wants to hear it but its time to get value from our stars before its too late. Ask kane keith and toews if they are willing to wave to go anywhere because it is going to be a full rebuild.
 
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Toews2Bickell

Toews2Bickell

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ChiHawk21 said:
i know nobody wants to hear it but its time to get value from our stars before its too late. Ask kane keith and toews if they are willing to wave to go anywhere because it is going to be a full rebuild.
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idk boston retooled after they fired Chiarelli, it's possible...They didn't have any picks in the top 10 either, it just takes good scouting on pro and amateur side, hit on some picks and trades and things work out...Tired of seeing Stan do absolutely nothing to fix the roster when he has hall of fame players on the team that are still good...Look at the moves Boston made to regain their status as a contender after they fired Chiarelli...Stan needs to be proactive and start making good moves...last offseason was a complete whiff and now we're stuck in cap hell as a result...
 
Salvaged Ship

Salvaged Ship

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Oct 9, 2013
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Didn’t Bowman quote something to the effect of 18 month or 2 years to get back to a good team a few years ago? I am trying to remember. If so he is long past that and no end in sight.
 
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HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Jan 26, 2011
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Salvaged Ship said:
We have seen other contending teams with stars able to manage the cap and stay very competitive. Three straight years in the crapper with no end in sight. A team with high paid vets, very young and unproven players, and a collection of low talent roster filler. Small, slow, not that highly skilled, not physical, poor coaching staff chosen by Bowman. I don’t understand the love by some for him and wonder how many more years it will take to admit a new direction is needed. Now the latest is blame it all on McD. Hey, maybe Bowman told Colliton to play Quenneville last night and give him big minutes? If you can blame all the bad moves on McD and say Bowman is now fully in charge then why is it not feasible Bowman put out the directive to play Quenneville last night? No way that was solely Colliton’s call.

Will he get fired? No. Will he fire his hand picked coach? Likely not. The entire slate needs to be wiped clean, fresh ideas and fresh tactics. I expect Bowman to come out and give Colliton praise, say he did a great job these last few weeks and is growing into a solid NHL coach. He is very happy with him, blah blah. Nothing is changing but both positions should change.
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There really isn't a lot of comparables. Pittsburgh got the best player in the world locked up to a contract that is no longer legal. He's being paid well below market value in terms of % of cap. Boston was able to hand out contract at opportune times to their stars, again resulting in contracts being played well below market value in terms of cap %. LA went to shit with us. Anaheim went to shit. Tampa has a significant tax advantage when re-signing their players.
 
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BobbyJet

BobbyJet

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Oct 27, 2010
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HockeySensible said:
There really isn't a lot of comparables. Pittsburgh got the best player in the world locked up to a contract that is no longer legal. He's being paid well below market value in terms of % of cap. Boston was able to hand out contract at opportune times to their stars, again resulting in contracts being played well below market value in terms of cap %. LA went to shit with us. Anaheim went to shit. Tampa has a significant tax advantage when re-signing their players.
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Yeah, Stan is merely a victim of circumstance. All the other GMs just lucked out. :sarcasm:
 
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HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Jan 26, 2011
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BobbyJet said:
Yeah, Stan is merely a victim of circumstance. All the other GMs just lucked out. :sarcasm:
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Clearly not, the Kings and Ducks also went to shit.

You think it was GM savvy that allowed Boston to sign Marchand and Bergeron at opportune times? Or that Tampa could get Kucherov, Point and Stamkos for under 10M? The Hawks were looking really good when Toews, Kane and Keith were all being paid below market value in terms of % of cap. Then Toews and Kane's contracts expired, they were still in their primes and they had to be paid.

You probably think Sakic is a genius bc MacKinnon was a couple years late on exploding into a superstar. Imagine if Colorado had to pay him what he was actually worth the next 5 years. The Makar negotiations will be fun.
 
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Toews2Bickell

Toews2Bickell

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Nov 24, 2013
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HockeySensible said:
Clearly not, the Kings and Ducks also went to shit.

You think it was GM savvy that allowed Boston to sign Marchand and Bergeron at opportune times? Or that Tampa could get Kucherov, Point and Stamkos for under 10M? The Hawks were looking really good when Toews, Kane and Keith were all being paid below market value in terms of % of cap. Then Toews and Kane's contracts expired, they were still in their primes and they had to be paid.

You probably think Sakic is a genius bc MacKinnon was a couple years late on exploding into a superstar. Imagine if Colorado had to pay him what he was actually worth the next 5 years. The Makar negotiations will be fun.
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At some point you have to give some credit to those teams for making good moves...Duchene trade for COL worked out quite well landing them Byram and Sam Girard, Kadri deal, not moving Mac when it looked like he might not pan out like a #1 pick, Rantanen absolute home run pick at 10th overall... Boston drafted elite talent in Pasta and McAvoy with mid-late first and Carlo in the 2nd round..Tampa drated Kuch and Point in 2nd/3rd round, Vas with a mid 1st...Time to stop giving Hawks FO a pass, they haven't been very good for a while now...They had one 2nd round pick worth a damn in ten years in Cat, three 1st round picks out of 10 years in Danault, Turbo and Dach, two of which they gave away...A lot of mismanagement and failure at scouting and development that has led them down this path to mediocrity
 
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Salvaged Ship

Salvaged Ship

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Toews2Bickell said:
At some point you have to give some credit to those teams for making good moves...Duchene trade for COL worked out quite well landing them Byram and Sam Girard, Kadri deal, not moving Mac when it looked like he might not pan out like a #1 pick, Rantanen absolute home run pick at 10th overall... Boston drafted elite talent in Pasta and McAvoy with mid-late first and Carlo in the 2nd round..Tampa drated Kuch and Point in 2nd/3rd round, Vas with a mid 1st...Time to stop giving Hawks FO a pass, they haven't been very good for a while now...They had one 2nd round pick worth a damn in ten years in Cat, three 1st round picks out of 10 years in Danault, Turbo and Dach, two of which they gave away...A lot of mismanagement and failure at scouting and development that has led them down this path to mediocrity
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Yeah, I don’t get all the free passes by some. After several years of struggling there is no apparent direction, a clear course to get us back on track. Lots of dart throwing. At some point the past successes have to wear out and judgement is based on where are we now, where are we going, how did we get here. To me when I look at those three questions I am not seeing much in the way of positivity. At some point he needs to be held accountable, it should be now. But alas, it won’t be. The One Goal slogan is gone, at least when it comes to that one goal being Cup winning.
 
HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Jan 26, 2011
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Toews2Bickell said:
At some point you have to give some credit to those teams for making good moves...Duchene trade for COL worked out quite well landing them Byram and Sam Girard, Kadri deal, not moving Mac when it looked like he might not pan out like a #1 pick, Rantanen absolute home run pick at 10th overall... Boston drafted elite talent in Pasta and McAvoy with mid-late first and Carlo in the 2nd round..Tampa drated Kuch and Point in 2nd/3rd round, Vas with a mid 1st...Time to stop giving Hawks FO a pass, they haven't been very good for a while now...They had one 2nd round pick worth a damn in ten years in Cat, three 1st round picks out of 10 years in Danault, Turbo and Dach, two of which they gave away...A lot of mismanagement and failure at scouting and development that has led them down this path to mediocrity
Click to expand...

COL traded a guy that wanted out. They were never going to move MacKinnon. No one is giving the front office a pass, that wasn't the point. It's really easy to say something was mismanaged and it's even easier to say that in hindsight.

Was Bickell's contract bad? He fell apart as a player thanks to his MS diagnosis. Of course, CHI didn't know he had MS when they had to trade him. If he had been healthy, that's a contract you don't need to attach Teuvo to, to move. Was the Seabrook contract bad? Signed Sept 26th, 2015; coming off another Cup; coming off seasons of 53 and 55% Corsi. I think anyone could have predicted a decline but I doubt many thought he'd call off a cliff 3 years later. And then you have the Toews and Kane contracts, where Kane has been meeting expectations and Toews really hasn't. Did you think Toews would follow-up 2015 with three consecutive <60 point seasons and 21 or less goals in 2 of those years?

My two biggest gripes with Stan, given the context *at the time* are the Panarin and Hjalmarsson trades. Those two trades set this team up for failure relative to expectations from finishing 1st the prior year. The organization was stubborn and hadn't been able to come to terms with the fact they aren't a good team -- until maybe now?
 
Toews2Bickell

Toews2Bickell

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Nov 24, 2013
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HockeySensible said:
COL traded a guy that wanted out. They were never going to move MacKinnon. No one is giving the front office a pass, that wasn't the point. It's really easy to say something was mismanaged and it's even easier to say that in hindsight.

Was Bickell's contract bad? He fell apart as a player thanks to his MS diagnosis. Of course, CHI didn't know he had MS when they had to trade him. If he had been healthy, that's a contract you don't need to attach Teuvo to, to move. Was the Seabrook contract bad? Signed Sept 26th, 2015; coming off another Cup; coming off seasons of 53 and 55% Corsi. I think anyone could have predicted a decline but I doubt many thought he'd call off a cliff 3 years later. And then you have the Toews and Kane contracts, where Kane has been meeting expectations and Toews really hasn't. Did you think Toews would follow-up 2015 with three consecutive <60 point seasons and 21 or less goals in 2 of those years?

My two biggest gripes with Stan, given the context *at the time* are the Panarin and Hjalmarsson trades. Those two trades set this team up for failure relative to expectations from finishing 1st the prior year. The organization was stubborn and hadn't been able to come to terms with the fact they aren't a good team -- until maybe now?
Click to expand...

For a player that wanted out Sakic got Byram, Girard, Bowers, and a few other pieces...Absolute home run trade...My point is that the Hawks have mostly failed to replace their organizational depth through bad drafts and pro scouting since basically 2015 on...Outside of Cat their drafts have been dysmal and you could even go back to 2010-2012 timeframe when their last good period of drafts were...
 
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