Few years gone, views on Koivu.

[Hackett]

I definitely respect the guy. The context in which he played is easily overlooked. And he's a true Hab - more than I could say for Gionta. Koivu IS a Montreal Canadien through and through.

That said, I'm erring on the side of caution when I say that he was not a particularly good or inspirational lockeroom presence toward the end of his tenure (last ~4ish years to be exact). He had a free pass with the English media because of his condition so we didn't get to see much of what was going on but the rumours of cliques and poorly motivated players and rotting youngsters was clear as day and obvious. How many young players did we churn through? Higgins, Komisarek, the Kositsyns, Grabovski, etc. Some of the blame, not all of it, falls of the lockerroom leadership.

Look at how, for all their pomp and baroque nonsense the Gainey-Boivin management unceremoniously let Koivu go? Carbo insinuated that something was rotten in that lockeroom the day he was fired - he said the truth will come out some day. Obviously there were divisions in there and the team did NOT play well consistently.

Look at how consistent the current Habs are. All credit to Gionta, Gorges and company - this team does not give up, this team does not fool around for the entire 60 minutes. In the middle-to-late 2000s if the Habs started flat it was only going to get worse. And they would collapse easily too. It was pathetic and showed a lack of determination.

Of course it falls on talent, coaching, etc. But the way Gainey cut Koivu out (but still tried to keep Kovalev and Komisarek) just SCREAMS that he had had enough.

I like the player, love the man, and several people in my family have used the diagnostic tools he's donated. Great, great person. I don't think he was properly supported toward the tail-end of his time here, nor do I think he held up his end of the bargain either -- the team was divided and did not show up to play too many times, some of the fault lies with Koivu himself.

Interesting take.

It reminds me of how I thought martin effectively changed the culture of this club, but maybe it had something to do with the personnel that preceded him too?

Regarding the kostitsyns, I do remember JM cracking his whip on Sergei a few times. Interesting to note that Andrei had an incident with radulov in Nashville during the playoffs. I believe that was his last season in the NHL... Sergei has followed suit. Now I'm starting to get memories of the bizarre run ins between grabovski and Sergei

Maybe the crop that saku had to work with just was just destined to implode? Just a thought.

 

[DAChampion]

What I've heard from insiders is that Koivu wanted to leave by that point, and the Canadiens made it look like they didn't want him as a professional courtesy.

 

[Nicko999]

Koivu and Markov were the only bright spots in that dark 2000's decade. Basically with the goalie, the only thing that kept us out of a lottery pick year after year.

We have a much better supporting cast right now so I only hope Galchenyuk can become as good as prime Koivu and Subban as good as prime Markov.

FYI: Markov and Koivu are the only 2 players with 50+ assists in a season in the last 18 years. That's how bad offensively we have been.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Saku was the one who kicked out Ribeiro.

Then all his accomplice were traded or let go: Rivet and other.

Finally, he was let go as a UFA and not even offered a contract.

Gainey's final behavior tells it all...

I think one post was enough. We already know your opinion on Saku, which is being a dictator, controlling the GM, the coach, the media, Ribeiro and all the rest.

 

[BLNY]

I think he's a criminally underrated player. The prime years of his career were spent during the worst era in team history from an organization point of view. Terrible drafting, terrible trades; he was never given much to work with. Imagine a Koivu in his prime with a Pacioretty.

I don't know about retired, but he definitely needs to be honoured.

 

[higgs011]

Honestly, I was too young to remember that time or especially that season when he was leading the league in points before injuring his knee... Can anyone tell me how good was Koivu in that season or how good we were expecting him to be?

Early in his career people were saying he was one of the most the most talented finnish players to play the game, up there with Selanne and Kurri. He was the player we were supposed to build the team around, he made his linemates better.

 

[Plural]

Early in his career people were saying he was one of the most the most talented finnish players to play the game, up there with Selanne and Kurri. He was the player we were supposed to build the team around, he made his linemates better.

Koivu definitely had the upside. He never quite tapped the potential, was it cause of injuries or just natural progression? I am not sure. But Koivu as a young star was definitely a force. Had he played his career like first half of his sophomore season, we would not be talking about jersey retirement, but Hall of Fame.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Horrible horrible horrible trade but if we had McDo in 2011-2012, we wouldn't have Galchenyuk.

That's not necessarily true.

With Ribs and McDonagh we probably don't have Galchenyuk.

I'd rather have McDonagh than Galchenyuk.

That's exactly why I'm not mad at that deal. We need a Galchenyuk more than a McDonagh. It's still beyond terrible but short term pain for long term gain.

We went about things completely wrong anyway... Should've just rebuilt. Ribs is irrelevant to all of this anyway.

Real question is what we should've done with that group - Kovalev, Saku, Tanguay... all left for zero. We should've just flat out rebuilt. Instead we let them leave for nothing and re-up with players of similiar skill level for double the price. We stay medicore... Should've just let Timmins work his magic with more picks and gotten more prospects.

We wouldn't have got Galchenyuk? Maybe not, but we would've gotten other top picks and prospects along the way.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Considering the fact that Koivu has not won any cup is unfair in the decision to retire his number or not. Koivu has played with the worst Habs team and he played many seasons under a salary cap league. The 1970's team would have bust the salary cap so
hard, it's unfair to compare Koivu with players from that era.

I think Koivu would also have won the Stanley Cup if he was playing with the 1970's Habs teams. No Habs players that have their number retired would have won the Stanley Cup if they were playing at the place of Koivu on the 1996-2010 Habs team.

 

[bobholly39]

There are very few athletes who are able to earn the level of respect Saku garners.

No he wasn't Wayne Gretzky/Mario Lemieux good, but he never claimed to be.

He always gave a strong effort in his play (no one will ever accuse him of not playing hard), and he had some very, very memorable moments with the Habs (and yes, some of those were off the ice, but it still counts).

So few years gone by, my views on Saku are nothing but positive. When he retires, he will definately be welcomed back into the Habs organisation to be honored as a Great Hab (does that mean his Jersey retired? Well, not necessarily, but an argument can be made for it though).

 

[JAVO16]

He's the 3rd best scorer from his draft year. Our only 1st rounder under 6' in the 90s and our only successful 1st rounder in the 90s.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Koivu is god.

 

[Uber Coca]

Most overrated Canadiens in history.

I liked him as an individual and as a player. Him and his organization gave Montreal the Tep-scan. He was an example of courage and determination too.

Unfortunately, I still believe the injuries stopped him from reaching his potential. Following his draft, his top-speed was above average given the NHL standards at the time. That plus his vision gave us great hope that we finally found a gem. It didn't pan out like that. Saku Koivu had a good career but that's it. He was a 50-ish points per season type of player (with two seasons of 70 points and plus).

People get overly excited when they talk about Koivu (and I understand why), but he was an average center for Montreal with some good and some disappointing seasons.

P.S. People praying for a KOIVU banner should GTFO.

 

[Mad Habber]

Koivu - my favourite player of the last 2 decades. Very good player, determined, never give up, leader, etc. Some doubt his talent and say he was a 2nd liner at best. At the very least, it is one of those what could have been careers. The multiple injuries and the fight with cancer just slowed him down when he should have been at his peak. It also didn’t help that guys like Recchi, Turgeon and Damphousse were traded away for lesser players or draft picks and then those players were eventually let go for nothing. He was the leader of a bad bunch. When Sergei Zholtok is the leading goal scorer on your team, you have a bad team. When Oleg Petrov is the leading scorer with 47 points and you tie him while playing 2/3 of the games he played, you are on a bad team. When Patrice Brisebois is the #1 D on your team, that is a bad team. Poor Saku never had much to work with in Montreal.

Having said that, I will not deny that there were problems with this team during his captaincy. The various clicks, the problems with the three amigos, fight with that little ***** Ribeiro,. WhiskeySeven mentioned the problems with Grabowski (even though he said Koivu was the only guy he respected on the Habs team). The complete collapse of the centennial team finishing with a four game sweep to the Bruins in the playoffs. The numerous rumours every season about various problems. It doesn’t help that he played during the darkest era in Habs history and he was the best player on the team, but he was still part of the team, part of the bad team.

I don’t think his number deserve retiring, but I would be fine with his number being honoured. While they’re at it, they can un-retire a few others and honour them also.

Retire
1-Plante
2-Harvey
4-Beliveau
7-Morenz
9-Richard
10-Lafleur
19-Robinson

Honour
3-Bouchard
4-Joliat
5-Geoffrion
12-Cournoyer
12-Moore
16-Richard
16-Lach
18-Savard
23-Gainey
29-Dryden
33-Roy

1-Durnam, 1-Vezina, 5-Lapointe, 11-Koivu, 6-Blake

 

[higgs011]

Koivu definitely had the upside. He never quite tapped the potential, was it cause of injuries or just natural progression? I am not sure. But Koivu as a young star was definitely a force. Had he played his career like first half of his sophomore season, we would not be talking about jersey retirement, but Hall of Fame.

I think injuries slowed him down a bit, but they were a direct result of his gritty style of play. Dude's nickname was the Littlest Viking lol. I don't think he lost the elite talent, just didn't have the supporting cast.

It boggles my mind that someone who has been broken and injured so much has played almost 20 seasons.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

I'll say one thing about Koivu;

While Gionta is being put in the same category because of his size and reputation, he's not half as talented, OR half as hard a worker as Saku was.

 

[Nynja*]

"Koivu sucked, overrated POS"

Lets just compare things right now:

2000-2001:
had 3 players crack 40 pts, 3 players played more than 70 games in the season.

2001-02
4 players cracked 40, 1 cracked 50. Koivu played 3 games.

2002-03
Koivu gets a full season, 71 pts. Zednik got 50, Perreault 46, Bullis 40, Markov 37. Gilmour had 30 pts before he was traded, and next on pts was Brisebois with 32

2003-04
Ribeiro gets 65, Ryder 63, Koivu got 55 pts in 68 games (prorated to 66), Zednik 50. Next is Souray with 35.


You get the point, he didnt really have great support.

2011-12:
Patches/Cole/DD 60+, Plek 52, Subban 36

2012-13 (anything over 20 points would translate to about 40 in a full season):
Patches, Subban, Plek, Markov, Eller all 30+, Gallagher, DD, Chucky, Gionta, Ryder 20+.

2013-14:
Patches 60 in 73 (would pro-rate to 70), Subban/DD 50+, Plek/Markov/Gallagher/Gio 40+, Chucky had 31 in 65 (prorates to 39), and Eller who was never given any opportunities to score still got 26.


Koivu didnt have much support when he played, which means its easier to focus on him when the other 3 lines arent a threat.

 

[Not The One]

The thing about Koivu is that our entire team was buit around him. The only challenge to this during most of his stay here was Ribeiro, and look at what happend to him.

And yet the three times he lead the team in scoring, they failed to make the playoffs. He certainly a fun player to watch, a fan favorite but he would have been better suited as a no. 2 centre, IMO.

And as inspiring and public as his battle with cancer was at the time there are tens of thousands people who beat cancer every year, all ordinary joes and even young children who don't get premium healthcare like he did, who don't get a ten minute ovation, who don't have millions of dollars in the bank or an athlete's stamina in the first place. Treating him like some sort of god because "he beat cancer" makes me a bit sick.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

I wouldn't retire his number, but surely I'd want Bergevin to sign him to a one day contract so he can retire a Canadien and then they do what the Leafs do with some guys and honour their number rather than actually retiring it.

 

[beowulf]

And there is of course the season that could have been in 1996-1997. Ended the year with 56pts in 50 games and was in the top 3 in scoring, if I recall, when he got hurt. Who knows how different things might have been had he played the whole year.

 

[TravisF]

He was a great player and a great captain for Montreal. I knew he would give his all every night. He was my favorite player when he was here. I hope his number will be retired in MTL someday.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

 

[agent082]

Don't retire, but i hope they honour him somehow and maybe there could be some kind of unwritten rule that you can only have number 11 after you prove you play with heart and soul. In the future no another Gomez with number 11. It was painful to watch after Koivu.

 

[Phil Parent]

He was good, was here forever, greatly beloved in his time here, could have been better had he been healthier, that was unfortunate.

However, I got a feeling that time won't do Saku's legacy any good, especially if this current build of the Habs makes it to the Finals or wins the cup. He was captain of a team that didn't go anywhere, not that it was entirely his fault, and time will make it that eventually people will overlook the context.

Who was the greatest Canadien between Saku Koivu & Andrei Markov would be a GREAT question to ask.

 

[CGG]

And as inspiring and public as his battle with cancer was at the time there are tens of thousands people who beat cancer every year, all ordinary joes and even young children who don't get premium healthcare like he did, who don't get a ten minute ovation, who don't have millions of dollars in the bank or an athlete's stamina in the first place. Treating him like some sort of god because "he beat cancer" makes me a bit sick.

How about a whole pile of "ordinary joes" that now have the chance to beat cancer due to the generous donations Koivu made to the Montreal hospital?

Seriously, you can debate his on-ice performances all you want, but you have to be very warped or jaded to dislike the guy because he's a role model and an example to anyone going through the horror of dealing with cancer. He should be treated like a god, regardless of what he did or didn't do on ice.