Few years gone, views on Koivu.

[25get]

First, highly debatable.

Seconldy, even if true... doesn't address what I said about McD or Ribs. But you can have the last word on this one 'cause I don't really care all that much.

Yes it does. With Ribeiro in our team, we are keeping McD.

Remember, when Gomez was brought in, Plekanec had a 39 points season and Koivu had a 50 points season.

So if Gainey decided to let go his best center, there must have been a reason...
He was getting 4.75M in Montreal and signed for 3.25M in Anaheim.
We had about 15M in Scap that summer...

This was the captain, the guy who won against cancer and as someone pointed out won against a stick in the eye...
And you are talking about Gainey as a GM, a player who values team work and persistance over everything.

Of course I can be wrong but the fact remains.

 

[25get]

Retire #11 Koivu.

"When I'm feeling like I just might fall apart
Put 11 on my back and a C on my heart"

Will never happen while Carbo and Gainey are alive...

 

[25get]

He only played two and a half games before he got a high stick in the eye by Justin Williams.

Agreed.

But you cut 90% of my post to make your point.

I got it...

What do you have to reply to the rest of my arguments?

I love Koivu but I am not ready to say he is the greatest of all time.

He was the best we had and did very good.
But there was other issues that ended up seeing Gainey let him go.

 

[DoctorPurple]

I'll probably end up regretting sharing this with you, as somebody will more than likely mock me for it.

On January 1st of this year, my son was born with complications and spent his first 25 days on Earth at the Montreal Children's Hospital. I can't explain how hard that was, but what kept me going was the jersey that hung on the wall, next to the door to my son's room. It's a Saku Koivu jersey, autographed and personalized to the staff at the hospital and every day I'd take my son to see it. He won't remember that as he grows up but it meant the world to me. I was a Habs fan before Koivu was drafted and I'll be a Koivu fan (and a Habs fan) until the day I die.

My son, after two brain surgeries in five months, is doing really well. For anybody that cares.

Great story man. Thank you for telling it.

 

[capebretoncanadien]

Koivu was an awesome Hab and competed hard through some pretty lean years here.

He never had much support....then Gainey just cuts him loose.

He could still be a useful Hab to this day.

I still feel bitter about him leaving town.

Gainey was a terrible GM.

 

[25get]

Yes it does. With Ribeiro in our team, we are keeping McD.

Remember, when Gomez was brought in, Plekanec had a 39 points season and Koivu had a 50 points season.

So if Gainey decided to let go his best center, there must have been a reason...
He was getting 4.75M in Montreal and signed for 3.25M in Anaheim.
We had about 15M in Scap that summer...

This was the captain, the guy who won against cancer and as someone pointed out won against a stick in the eye...
And you are talking about Gainey as a GM, a player who values team work and persistance over everything.

Of course I can be wrong but the fact remains.

He trades Gomez for Higgins, McDonagh and some scraps (Janik and Valentenko).

Gomez is making 7M and had scored 60 points.
Koivu is making 4.75M and has scored 50 points (would have signed for 5M).

Why do you get Gomez for McD?

He certainly knew what Timmins was thinking about McD...

The only reason Gainey let Koivu go was because of locker room issues not because of performance.

As I wrote, we will never know because Carbo and Gainey won't talk.
Same with Koivu!

 

[25get]

Koivu was an awesome Hab and competed hard through some pretty lean years here.

He never had much support....then Gainey just cuts him loose.

He could still be a useful Hab to this day.

I still feel bitter about him leaving town.

Gainey was a terrible GM.

I am going to say something that will make every Habs fan react.

He not only had cancer but was a cancer in the locker room for the last 4 years...

I will be alone in saying that but facts and Habs management behaviour is clear...

 

[Price My Man Crush]

Few years has gone by, Saku became one of the most unsuccessful captains in the Habs history. Obviously Koivu was a fan favorite and in his playing time you could hardly ask more from him.

But, after few years, how do you guys feel about him? Is Koivu still a part of the history, or is he just a lost face in the crowd?

Look man, I turn 20 this year and for me...Koivu was the Habs. He was the definition of this team. Anybody bashing him should die in a fire. Nobody on this board could have put up with all the BS he had to endure while he was playing here. Say thanks to our French media for this, though. Réjean Tremblay is one of the main reason why there was a lot of talk **** about Captain Courage.

Koivu hasn't won a cup with us but his showing of passion, courage, professionalism, commitment to both the team and community (of the whole province btw) can't be denied. He had all the qualities to be a leader on this team.

First European captain with the team (not everyone was pleased with this). The youngest one IIRC.

Man, the knee injury in 1996, then cancer in 2001-2002, the eye injury in the 2006 Stanley Cup Playoffs. But you know what? He still came back. He never quit. That's Saku Koivu.

So yes, Koivu is still part of the history of this team. He will be forever. He is on the big screen at the top of the Bell Centre when there is the Canadian anthem. "Ton histoire est une épopée des plus brilliants exploits".

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

On the subject of retiring jerseys... *braces for hate* I'm kind of with Toronoto on the subject. I am all for honoring the players by hanging their numbers from the rafters, but the players can still wear them. I hate that we have only 7 numbers lower than 20 available.

If western civilzation doesn't fall apart in less than 50-100 years and we start retiring a crazy amount more jerseys then sooner or later we're going to have to do something about that.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I wouldn't be offended one bit man. I love Saku. That machine he bought for the children's hospital saved lives. Great great man. I hope to see him stay with the team after his retirement. Maybe a scout in Finland?

yeah one way or another, he needs to be a part of our organization.

Team would've been better with McDonnaugh period.

Horrible horrible horrible trade but if we had McDo in 2011-2012, we wouldn't have Galchenyuk.

So as awful as it was kicking out Koivu for freaking Gomez, IMO it was worth it to get Galchenyuk. 100%.

Great leader, person and player that found himself on a team with nothing really going for it. He was a 2C playing as a 1C and management never did much to help.

I don't believe his number should be retired of a career of not going all the way. Despite his personal struggles and what he did for the city, it doesn't warrant a jersey retirement. An player honoring, absolutely.

I'd still retire it though. In Koivu's case, so what if those gold standards of retiring a jersey aren't met?

I stopped watching hockey after we won the cup till the year Theodore was god incarnate so I missed Koivu before the injuries too. God, I could only imagine how good he would've been with more speed.

I'll probably end up regretting sharing this with you, as somebody will more than likely mock me for it.

On January 1st of this year, my son was born with complications and spent his first 25 days on Earth at the Montreal Children's Hospital. I can't explain how hard that was, but what kept me going was the jersey that hung on the wall, next to the door to my son's room. It's a Saku Koivu jersey, autographed and personalized to the staff at the hospital and every day I'd take my son to see it. He won't remember that as he grows up but it meant the world to me. I was a Habs fan before Koivu was drafted and I'll be a Koivu fan (and a Habs fan) until the day I die.

My son, after two brain surgeries in five months, is doing really well. For anybody that cares.

That's great to hear. Glad your son's okay.

 

[25get]

If western civilzation doesn't fall apart in less than 50-100 years and we start retiring a crazy amount more jerseys then sooner or later we're going to have to do something about that.

You are an optimist.
You really think we are going to last that long with Global warming, US and Europ politics, China, Russia and middle east?

Not even talking about the most violent continent: south America and the worst one Africa...

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

You are an optimist.
You really think we are going to last that long with Global warming, US and Europ politics, China, Russia and middle east?

Not even talking about the most violent continent: south America and the worst one Africa...

just because I said 50-100 years doesn't mean that i don't think it's less than 5, hahaha.

it would take 50-100 years to possibly crowd those rafters so much that our players would have no #s to pick from.

I guess that still makes me an optimist though doesn't it?

 

[Kimota]

He was our Captain, a great heart & soul guy who brought us happiness in a dark period. Just a shame he wasn't on better teams. As such, I view Saku like this: he was to the Habs what Doug Gilmour was to the Leafs. I don't think he was Legendary though.

 

[DAChampion]

...his #11 should be hanging from the rafters the moment he retires, which should be after a 1-day contract from Bergevin so he can retire a Hab...end of story...

Agreed.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He should get his jersey in the rafters. He's still one of our best forward ever, he's still one of our best captain ever, he still had success with this team.

Ultimately, he never won, but team achievements are half the battle.

If Steve Shutt's number and Guy Lapointe's name are not in the rafters, then Koivu doesn't quite qualify, I'm afraid.

But he was a warrior, in so many ways, and it would be fine with me if Marc Bergevin signed him to a short contract so he could retire a Hab and maybe get a scouting job or coaching job in the organization.

 

[Natey]

Yes it does. With Ribeiro in our team, we are keeping McD.

Remember, when Gomez was brought in, Plekanec had a 39 points season and Koivu had a 50 points season.

So if Gainey decided to let go his best center, there must have been a reason...
He was getting 4.75M in Montreal and signed for 3.25M in Anaheim.
We had about 15M in Scap that summer...

This was the captain, the guy who won against cancer and as someone pointed out won against a stick in the eye...
And you are talking about Gainey as a GM, a player who values team work and persistance over everything.

Of course I can be wrong but the fact remains.

With Ribs and McDonagh we probably don't have Galchenyuk.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

With Ribs and McDonagh we probably don't have Galchenyuk.

That's exactly why I'm not mad at that deal. We need a Galchenyuk more than a McDonagh. It's still beyond terrible but short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Didn't know Koivu also had the power of mind control.

Controlled Ribeiro being a tool

Controlled the Ribeiro trade

Controlled Gainey in being an idiot and trading for Gomez and signing Gionta in the Summer of senility.

Love how apparently Ribeiro being traded led to Mcdonagh being traded and somehow Koivu masterminded this all despite not being with the team anymore.

Stupidity runs deeply with some.

You know hockey season is over when someone can put together that gem

 

[MTLAzzurri]

Has any one player done more for Montreal off the ice than Koivu? Serious question.

 

[Hackett]

He is most definitely not lost on habs fans.

He touched this community , and made a personal connection with the fan base. There's not many players that can say that.

He is still given ovations when he comes back which are reserved for some of the great habs of past glory.

He wasn't ever as graceful as beliveau, as clinical as lafleur, nor a rocket, or a roadrunner, but he connected with the fans just as well. I don't think that will change at least not anytime soon.

I tend not to look at him as the failed captain but rather a good player who arrived at a bad time that had to endure some extrodinary personal circumstances.

 

[Bacchus1]

After Roy, I think he was one of the most important Hab who played during the time I was a fan. I saw the last year of LaFleur, but I hardly knew him as a player, and I saw the final years of greats like Gainey and Robinson, but as a player who I saw through most of his career, what he gave to the team, and how he played through the worst era of the Habs, I think he was great. Does he deserve his jersey retired? I'm not too sure, because he didn't win the cup or anything. However, there are players in the history of the game who had their sweaters retired without winning the cup with that team (Bourque for Boston being the prime example).

I have a problem with numbers being retired, as over the course of time, inevitably, if the human race lasts a long time, there will be no numbers left. But, I do think he is an iconic Hab, one who gave his heart to the Habs, and who should be remembered with his jersey in the rafters. Possibly, we should start thinking of hanging jerseys, rather than retiring numbers, because the concept is antiquated.

 

[Plural]

I'll probably end up regretting sharing this with you, as somebody will more than likely mock me for it.

On January 1st of this year, my son was born with complications and spent his first 25 days on Earth at the Montreal Children's Hospital. I can't explain how hard that was, but what kept me going was the jersey that hung on the wall, next to the door to my son's room. It's a Saku Koivu jersey, autographed and personalized to the staff at the hospital and every day I'd take my son to see it. He won't remember that as he grows up but it meant the world to me. I was a Habs fan before Koivu was drafted and I'll be a Koivu fan (and a Habs fan) until the day I die.

My son, after two brain surgeries in five months, is doing really well. For anybody that cares.

Thanks for sharing that. Glad to hear your son is doing well. Here's hoping for the best. Nice to hear that Koivu has helped you guys through this hard time.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I definitely respect the guy. The context in which he played is easily overlooked. And he's a true Hab - more than I could say for Gionta. Koivu IS a Montreal Canadien through and through.

That said, I'm erring on the side of caution when I say that he was not a particularly good or inspirational lockeroom presence toward the end of his tenure (last ~4ish years to be exact). He had a free pass with the English media because of his condition so we didn't get to see much of what was going on but the rumours of cliques and poorly motivated players and rotting youngsters was clear as day and obvious. How many young players did we churn through? Higgins, Komisarek, the Kositsyns, Grabovski, etc. Some of the blame, not all of it, falls of the lockerroom leadership.

Look at how, for all their pomp and baroque nonsense the Gainey-Boivin management unceremoniously let Koivu go? Carbo insinuated that something was rotten in that lockeroom the day he was fired - he said the truth will come out some day. Obviously there were divisions in there and the team did NOT play well consistently.

Look at how consistent the current Habs are. All credit to Gionta, Gorges and company - this team does not give up, this team does not fool around for the entire 60 minutes. In the middle-to-late 2000s if the Habs started flat it was only going to get worse. And they would collapse easily too. It was pathetic and showed a lack of determination.

Of course it falls on talent, coaching, etc. But the way Gainey cut Koivu out (but still tried to keep Kovalev and Komisarek) just SCREAMS that he had had enough.

I like the player, love the man, and several people in my family have used the diagnostic tools he's donated. Great, great person. I don't think he was properly supported toward the tail-end of his time here, nor do I think he held up his end of the bargain either -- the team was divided and did not show up to play too many times, some of the fault lies with Koivu himself.

 

[beowulf]

Loved the guy, he played with heart and determination even though he rarely had linemates that could match his abilities. Saying he was not a successful captain is not fair as he had no say in player/personnel decisions and he was captain during one of the worst times in franchise history.

I don't see his number being retired but possibly being honored.

 

[ChemiseBleuHonnete]

I know the great golden standards of jersey retirements would take a blow if Koivu got his retired but really I'd be fine with him being an exception.

It's not just about his play on the ice when it comes Koivu's legacy.

It probably won't happen anyways and I understand why they won't retire it but surely fans wouldn't get too offended if it did happen though would they?

-Dickie Moore
-Yvan Cournoyer
-Emile Bouchard

None of these guys had nearly the same impact as Koivu. Koivu is the longest lasting capitain in the history and kept the team watchable for years while he had no support.