Prospect Info: Expectations for Timothy Liljegren in 2020-21

[stickty111]

I do love Sandin, I would have no issues if someone "accused me" of that...
These are the same hockey experts who get things wrong ALL the time. Not to mention, appeal to authority is a very weak argument anyways.
The only one who seems upset here is you, I even acknowledged some of Sandin's flaws and then shared my (key-word) opinion on both players.
Anyways, my personal track-record of evaluating players has been far more successful throughout my life than listening to pundits, so I'm happy to believe in my own observations. Cheers.

Thats fair. Both are really good prospects so we'll see.

 

[4thline]

Okay, but that doesn't really have anything to do with my post, nor is it something I think. I base all of my evaluations on what I see, has nothing to do with some subconscious flawed application of probability.
I agree, yes better than publicly accepted, but I mean if you're a Leafs fan you just kind of have to get used to that. Every other fan-base hates us, of course they are going to underrate our prospects.
I care more about a player's style in the AHL and how transferable I think their skill set is more than just their raw production. And I think using draft season is more accurate than a player's age, I mean with Dermott and Liljegren we're talking about a difference in 5 months. Liljegren is an actual physical tank himself and looks way older than his age, I don't think 5 months is really anything significant.

Oh I'm not accusing you of that logic, moreso musing about the state of our future on D vs. how it is perceived.

That's just it- months are insignificant. Seasons of hockey are not. If you compare a late birthday D+2 to a non late birthday D+2 you're comparing a U21 - CHL overager, no longer WJC eligible, standard AHL rookie to a U20 - non-overage, WJC eligible, early/rare AHL rookie season. There's different developmental expectations for each of those years, expectations that don't change based on having to wait a year to hear your name called. That some players have to wait a year to get drafted to the N is a legal thing and has nothing to do with hockey. Let's say that high

 

[deletethis]

We all get that you love Lilly, but these things are subjective.
You and some others think he outplayed Sandin in the AHL this year.
Me and some others think Sandin outplayed Lilly in the AHL this year.
You think he's stronger defensively and was nervous.
I think he is far less involved in the play and lacks confidence/swagger.
Time will tell who is right. But no need to constantly police other people's posts in this thread with your subjective observations.

Are you sure you aren't a sock puppet account I created while I'm sleeping?

I might need to test you:

Cats or dogs?

It's easy for left side defensemen to switch the right side at the NHL level, yes or no?

Wendel Clark could've played defense in the NHL, yes or no?

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Are you sure you aren't a sock puppet account I created while I'm sleeping?

I might need to test you:

Cats or dogs?

It's easy for left side defensemen to switch the right side at the NHL level, yes or no?

Wendel Clark could've played defense in the NHL, yes or no?

I can't say for certain that I'm not, depends on how much you like pre-70s jazz music.
Dogs, I'm terribly allergic to kitties.
I'd say some players are more capable than others, but on average, no.
Considering I was only 2 and a half years old when Wendel Clark played his last NHL season, I have no idea. I've never seen him play before.

 

[deletethis]

My answers in bold.

I can't say for certain that I'm not, depends on how much you life pre-70s jazz music. Pleasant listen but I don't seek it out.
Dogs, I'm terribly allergic to kitties. Both cats and dogs.
I'd say some players are more capable than others, but on average, no. No as well.
Considering I was only 2 and a half years old when Wendel Clark played his last NHL season, I have no idea. I've ever seen him play before. You're too young.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

My answers in bold.

Too young maybe, but too immature, hopefully not

 

[deletethis]

Too young maybe, but too immature, hopefully not

Trust me, I'm probably more immature. Cheers.

 

[Mugzy97]

Meh I wouldn't trust social media for opinions on players. It's better to watch the games and see.

You're not undestanding. You can't judge a players intellectual ability by witching them play hockey. You can by listening to interviews or watching videos they post.

 

[Mugzy97]

Lots of thick players have made it, it shouldn’t hold him back. As long as he’s waiver eligible there is still time.

Agreed. Thanks for the level-headed response.

 

[Mugzy97]

Great, another person who does not know how to do research. HE DROPPED IN THE DRAFT BECAUSE OF MONO!


Timothy Liljegren’s drop could be Red Wings gain

LOL if you read this article, there's nothing saying mono is the reason he dropped. They say his second half of the season he had spotty play. To say that spotty play was due to mono is speculation. He dropped in the draft because his play dropped off a bit. Maybe due to mono, maybe not. Joining a season halfway through is tough for some players, look at Willy last year.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Great discussion. I am thankful we finally have a few guys around in the d core who could elevate our d core. It has been a long long time since we had some hope. I am fully against trading any of the 3 guys. Lets do what we have never done before and draft and develop our own d core. and lets do it properly.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

You're not undestanding. You can't judge a players intellectual ability by witching them play hockey. You can by listening to interviews or watching videos they post.

This is true, however it can't always be conflated to hockey IQ.
Mitch Marner is not the brightest dude but his hockey IQ is off the charts.

 

[stickty111]

You're not undestanding. You can't judge a players intellectual ability by witching them play hockey. You can by listening to interviews or watching videos they post.

This is true, however it can't always be conflated to hockey IQ.
Mitch Marner is not the brightest dude but his hockey IQ is off the charts.

Thank you.
Marner couldn't even name how many provinces Canada had. Yet his IQ is some of the best in the league.
Can we judge a player on his ability to play hockey, and not useless stuff to evaluate him?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is true, however it can't always be conflated to hockey IQ.
Mitch Marner is not the brightest dude but his hockey IQ is off the charts.

Marner is very bright and very in touch with and involved in his community but maybe you mean he doesn’t articulate himself at a high level! I’ve seen many Nhl’ers interview skills drastically improve with maturity a hundred times. He’s just young and blurts stuff out.

 

[deletethis]

Actual functional intelligence is never really measured. There's a lot of bias to equate it to the testing measures created by the government school system. At best they put the kids in gym, shop and art class to spot some of these difficult to quantify abilities.

I know IQ tests use symbols and such to correct for literacy differences but those tests don't measure functional coordination, reaction times, ability to read and react to fast changing physical environments, intuitive reading of others' probable reactions, ability to mentally catalogue the tendencies of your opponents, etc.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Marner is very bright and very in touch with and involved in his community but maybe you mean he doesn’t articulate himself at a high level! I’ve seen many Nhl’ers interview skills drastically improve with maturity a hundred times. He’s just young and blurts stuff out.

He's involved with the community which is amazing! I don't doubt his heart, he's just not the brightest dude. There was an interview of him and Dvorak when he was 18 or 19 and he didn't know how many provinces Canada had, and he thought London, Ontario had a population of like 5000 lol... Less than his arena capacity. I've never spoken to him personally, but my younger brother works out with him during the off-season and says that's his impression as well.
Good dude though, and loved by all his teammates. Great player.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is true, however it can't always be conflated to hockey IQ.
Mitch Marner is not the brightest dude but his hockey IQ is off the charts.

I have known Paul and Mitch since he truly learned how to pee straight. Green laces always knew what he wanted. Play shift and then wait in front of line on bench for next shift. then go home with dad and watch video of game and learn from last game. never seen a kid and dad who deployed that system from day 1. some kids know what they want and do whatever it takes to get there. Zach did it a little different but Stuey in background made it happen. You don't need to be a genius to be a hockey player but you need an intense work ethic, an ability to change and adapt and a hunger for da puck to make da show. Mitch is smart like a fox. Not everyone is book smart.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He's involved with the community which is amazing! I don't doubt his heart, he's just not the brightest dude. There was an interview of him and Dvorak when he was 18 or 19 and he didn't know how many provinces Canada had, and he thought London, Ontario had a population of like 5000 lol... Less than his arena capacity. I've never spoken to him personally, but my younger brother works out with him during the off-season and says that's his impression as well.
Good dude though, and loved by all his teammates. Great player.

Seriously he doesn’t know how many states we have in Canada! Wth

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Gilman thinks Liljegren processes the game really well. Thinks he won’t see him with the Marlies again. Also it indicates why he dropped in his draft year. https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-hhof-matthews-liljegren-carter/

 

[Oscar Peterson]

I have known Paul and Mitch since he truly learned how to pee straight. Green laces always knew what he wanted. Play shift and then wait in front of line on bench for next shift. then go home with dad and watch video of game and learn from last game. never seen a kid and dad who deployed that system from day 1. some kids know what they want and do whatever it takes to get there. Zach did it a little different but Stuey in background made it happen. You don't need to be a genius to be a hockey player but you need an intense work ethic, an ability to change and adapt and a hunger for da puck to make da show. Mitch is smart like a fox. Not everyone is book smart.

Very valid point, I guess the original discussion though was deriving a player's intelligence through interviews, where Mitch admittedly does not present himself as the most educated
Absolutely a kid born to play hockey though, was beyond excited when Arizona passed on him for Strome and he's had a better start to his career than I even imagined.

 

[stickty111]

Gilman thinks Liljegren processes the game really well. Thinks he won’t see him with the Marlies again. https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-hhof-matthews-liljegren-carter/

I heard his hockey sense is really bad though
Anyone who has seen him play, knows his hockey sense really strong. A user saying stuff like he shouldn't pinch or activate just have a clear agenda.

 

[stickty111]

Seriously he doesn’t know how many states we have in Canada! Wth

Yeah he didn't know but I could care less as a fan. If your smart on the ice which he is, thats all that matters.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I heard his hockey sense is really bad though
Anyone who has seen him play, knows his hockey sense really strong. A user saying stuff like he shouldn't pinch or activate just have a clear agenda.

I am always saying he needs to just take the job because i believe he can pretty easily when he activates his complete game,skating,puck skills eyc. He’s good. I think once his confidence is second nature he will be having some fun and fans will fully enjoy his game

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yeah he didn't know but I could care less as a fan. If your smart on the ice which he is, thats all that matters.

Haha i was kidding and said “states”

 

[stickty111]

I am always saying he needs to just take the job because i believe he can pretty easily when he activates his complete game,skating,puck skills eyc. He’s good. I think once his confidence is second nature he will be having some fun and fans will fully enjoy his game

I think the confidence part is the only thing lacking for him, which he even said he is working on that aspect with someone. I think his NHL stint was more nervousness then confidence. I think we will have a better idea in his next stint.