He's a bottom pairing D-man. Just play Liljegren/Lehtonen/Dermott there and save the money.
Prospect Info: Expectations for Timothy Liljegren in 2020-21
- Thread starter Jimmy Firecracker
- Start date
Due to personal issues, Ceci may be open to the safety of deal now instead of delaying it to October or later in a very uncertain free agent market.
He's going to be our 2nd pairing D man in the upcoming playoffs.
Barrie and Holl are ahead of him. Not a chance.
kb
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I would resign Ceci for a year if he was half price. Gives Liljegren time to work himself in like he eventually does at every level.
kb
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Maple Leaf
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He started on the first pairing this year and ended up on the 3rd pairing. He demoted himself thru his play. Ceci is worth 1 million max as a bottom pairing guy/very replaceable. I think Ceci was a downgrade from Zaitsev. He doesnt make plays, isnt physical, his skating is average, his IQ /vision/deception is not there. He has better puck management than Liljegren right now and makes less mistakes than Liljegren so he will play in front of him.
Id ask Liljegren to focus on simplicity even if he may find that somewhat boring etc right now. Patience and puck management/take no risks at all. Use his skating to dial in his gaps and to win foot races to pucks. When his confidence grows by realizing he is not a liability the game will slow down and he can try and incorporate other things into his game.
stickty111
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The important thing for Liljegren is to keep rushing the puck, and activate in all zones, as well as pinch like he did with the Marlies. He has a very high hockey IQ and his puck management skills are top notch. If he avoids playing like Ron Hainsey, he will be a very effective player. Keefe knows he needs to control the puck and play aggressively. He shouldn't try to be a safe player, as that will the worst thing the team can do. He is a already a much more polished player then Sandin.
This is Liljegren.
This is Liljegren.
Martin Skoula
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You learn to be safe through trial and error, if something you do keeps getting you burned you make adjustments. You don't learn to become a play driver through trial and error. Better to go 100% at driving play and slowly reel it in once you learn what you can get away with.
As much as people credit Babcock with Rielly's development, I think making him only focus on defense during his main learning years was a mistake. He didn't get much better defensively, and now his decision making has obvious gaps in it. Rielly should have been unleashed from day one so he could learn to control the tempo of the game, forcing him to focus only on defense for two years made him way too reactionary for someone with his size strength and skating. Funny enough, Marner's development cycle would have been a great way to bring a defenseman like Rielly or Liljegren in; let them run wild in soft offensive minutes with vets and then start getting them on the PK.
Honestly I'd stick Liljegren with Muzzin for the first month or so of next season.
Take off some of the defensive pressure while giving him a mentor (much like Loverde was with the Marlies last season) and hopefully allow him to settle in and get comfortable with moving the puck at this level.
Give it a chance and see if that can develop into a good pairing. If it doesn't work you can always go back to Muzzin-Holl
acrobaticgoalie
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I was at that game, in that end. It was even better seeing it live!
stickty111
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Top 25 Under 25: Timothy Liljegren is ready for the NHL at #7
PPP is doing their annual top 25 under 25 list, and Lilly ranks 7th again. Here are the highlights from the article.
the Marlies took a gamble with Liljegren and worked him hard in the AHL to become someone who can play top defensive minutes when such a thing was not his strength as a junior.
This season, we saw the method from the madness as Liljegren brought back his scoring touch (as he said he would) thanks to actually being used on the power play, on top of his normal duties on the first pair and on the penalty kill. Liljegren has rounded out into a good two-way defenseman with significantly fewer holes than when he started in Toronto.
Offensively, Liljegren is a strong passer with a good shot of his own, and can move the puck up the ice when he needs to. Defensively, Liljegren is much better positionally than when he started, he’s got a good stick, and he can fight for pucks without bouncing off bigger guys. He has everything he needs to jump into the NHL, all that’s left is gradually building his role.
Talented, top-end speed, puck-handling, power play quarterback, good shot. All of these things still exist within Liljegren and have been developed to be at a pro level through the Marlies. Liljegren was incredible offensively last season, and I don’t think his 2018-19 campaign should take away from that. I’ve said it relentlessly that he spent his first full AHL season learning how to play a smart, physical, and reliable pro defensive game as a teenager.
Offensively, Liljegren has a good shot. It’s not reckless like Tyson Barrie or Dion Phaneuf, it’s hard, and it’s accurate. He doesn’t shoot often for a defenseman, he took 1.85 shots per game last season, which was much lower than the 2.5 sphere where Evan Bouchard and Jake Bean lived. Brannstrom shot at about the same rate as Liljegren. When Liljegren has the confidence, he’s purposeful with the puck and moves it at a good pace. He had good wingers in Pontus Aberg, Tanner MacMaster, and Nic Petan and he used them often on the power play. In the AHL, it’s usually a smart bet to have big guys in front and pepper shots on net for rebounds. Liljegren used Korshkov, Archbald, and Marchment well in those ways as well.
Power play points aren’t the be-all-end-all of a defenseman, which is why I’m very impressed with Liljegren’s even-strength production (0.425 EV points per game, close behind only Brannstrom, Bean, and Timmins among U23 defensemen in the AHL). He’s got offense, and it shouldn’t be a problem for him moving forward.
Liljegren wasn’t the smartest player coming out of his draft year so he and the Marlies worked on that part of his game and he’s suddenly not a liability in his own zone. He took a year off the power play, so obviously his points would come down, but this past season he was given top pair, power play, and top penalty kill minutes and he killed it. He did great.
Liljegren has become a really good engage defenseman; disrupting breakouts and cycles. He’s also learned how to hold back and not take unnecessary risks like he often did as a rookie. He’s much smarter through coaching now than when he was a raw talent out of Sweden.
Comparables
Jake Bean
Looking at Liljegren’s numbers, he has near-identical numbers to Carolina Hurricanes prospect Jake Bean, who was drafted a year earlier at 13th overall. Bean has two NHL games under his belt and was one-two with Liljegren in even-strength and power play primary points per game in the AHL.
Bean played 50% more games because he spent the whole year in the AHL, scoring 48 points in 59 games (0.81 ppg), whereas Liljegren missed 17 Marlies games while hanging out with the Leafs and only scored 30 points in 40 games (0.75 ppg). With his counting stats, Bean won the AHL’s Defenseman of the Year award, meaning if Liljegren had played a full season, he would’ve been right there in the running for the same award.
Lilly was one of the best defenceman in the AHL, and if played the whole season in the AHL, he would have had a good chance at this award.
Erik Brannstrom
Erik Brannstrom is one of Liljegren’s direct comparables from their draft year when they were picked one after the other. Brannstrom is a prospect many people are very excited about playing on a Belleville team that were like the Leafs equivalent in the AHL, whereas the Marlies were like the Sens equivalent in the AHL. Brannstrom played only 27 AHL games last season because he joined the Senators for 31 games this season, which is very impressive. He looked great and is poised to become a star in the very near future.
Liljegren doesn’t beat Brannstrom anywhere in terms of production and overall stock, but he’s in the ballpark, which is a good sign. On a strong AHL team, Brannstrom had 0.296 even-strength primary points per game and 0.148 power play primary points per game. Liljegren’s numbers in those categories on a much worse Marlies team were 0.275 and 0.200. Better on the power play, but slightly worse at even strength.
The B-Sens and Marlies were 10th and 11th in the league in power play goals in the season and Liljegren was a big part of getting the Marlies as high up as they ended. His even strength numbers are also right there despite playing on a polar opposite team in terms of talent and scoring. The B-Sens were first in the league by a mile in goals for, scoring half a goal more per game than the Marlies.
I’m not saying Liljegren could play top pair on Ottawa (Brannstrom played second last season), but he would probably fit in the top-four. On the Leafs, I think he has a real case for the third pair spot and the chance to move up higher as he gets used to the league.
In 2019-20, he played mostly with Sandin and Teemu Kivihalme, the latter of whom isn’t on the same level as Sandin and Rosen. Liljegren played really well with Kivihalme and took more risks and controlled the game more. When he was with Sandin, he often settled for a secondary role and didn’t push to have the puck on his stick as much. I don’t really blame him for that, because Sandin was so great, but it felt like a waste of his talents. Even with Kivihalme, Liljegren tended to hang at the blueline and let his partner jump in, though he showed more aggressiveness on the power play.
I noticed this as well. When both he and Sandin were paired, Lilly was the conservative one and let Sandin take more risks and I can't blame Lilly for that.
PPP is doing their annual top 25 under 25 list, and Lilly ranks 7th again. Here are the highlights from the article.
the Marlies took a gamble with Liljegren and worked him hard in the AHL to become someone who can play top defensive minutes when such a thing was not his strength as a junior.
This season, we saw the method from the madness as Liljegren brought back his scoring touch (as he said he would) thanks to actually being used on the power play, on top of his normal duties on the first pair and on the penalty kill. Liljegren has rounded out into a good two-way defenseman with significantly fewer holes than when he started in Toronto.
Offensively, Liljegren is a strong passer with a good shot of his own, and can move the puck up the ice when he needs to. Defensively, Liljegren is much better positionally than when he started, he’s got a good stick, and he can fight for pucks without bouncing off bigger guys. He has everything he needs to jump into the NHL, all that’s left is gradually building his role.
Talented, top-end speed, puck-handling, power play quarterback, good shot. All of these things still exist within Liljegren and have been developed to be at a pro level through the Marlies. Liljegren was incredible offensively last season, and I don’t think his 2018-19 campaign should take away from that. I’ve said it relentlessly that he spent his first full AHL season learning how to play a smart, physical, and reliable pro defensive game as a teenager.
Offensively, Liljegren has a good shot. It’s not reckless like Tyson Barrie or Dion Phaneuf, it’s hard, and it’s accurate. He doesn’t shoot often for a defenseman, he took 1.85 shots per game last season, which was much lower than the 2.5 sphere where Evan Bouchard and Jake Bean lived. Brannstrom shot at about the same rate as Liljegren. When Liljegren has the confidence, he’s purposeful with the puck and moves it at a good pace. He had good wingers in Pontus Aberg, Tanner MacMaster, and Nic Petan and he used them often on the power play. In the AHL, it’s usually a smart bet to have big guys in front and pepper shots on net for rebounds. Liljegren used Korshkov, Archbald, and Marchment well in those ways as well.
Power play points aren’t the be-all-end-all of a defenseman, which is why I’m very impressed with Liljegren’s even-strength production (0.425 EV points per game, close behind only Brannstrom, Bean, and Timmins among U23 defensemen in the AHL). He’s got offense, and it shouldn’t be a problem for him moving forward.
Liljegren wasn’t the smartest player coming out of his draft year so he and the Marlies worked on that part of his game and he’s suddenly not a liability in his own zone. He took a year off the power play, so obviously his points would come down, but this past season he was given top pair, power play, and top penalty kill minutes and he killed it. He did great.
Liljegren has become a really good engage defenseman; disrupting breakouts and cycles. He’s also learned how to hold back and not take unnecessary risks like he often did as a rookie. He’s much smarter through coaching now than when he was a raw talent out of Sweden.
Comparables
Jake Bean
Looking at Liljegren’s numbers, he has near-identical numbers to Carolina Hurricanes prospect Jake Bean, who was drafted a year earlier at 13th overall. Bean has two NHL games under his belt and was one-two with Liljegren in even-strength and power play primary points per game in the AHL.
Bean played 50% more games because he spent the whole year in the AHL, scoring 48 points in 59 games (0.81 ppg), whereas Liljegren missed 17 Marlies games while hanging out with the Leafs and only scored 30 points in 40 games (0.75 ppg). With his counting stats, Bean won the AHL’s Defenseman of the Year award, meaning if Liljegren had played a full season, he would’ve been right there in the running for the same award.
Lilly was one of the best defenceman in the AHL, and if played the whole season in the AHL, he would have had a good chance at this award.
Erik Brannstrom
Erik Brannstrom is one of Liljegren’s direct comparables from their draft year when they were picked one after the other. Brannstrom is a prospect many people are very excited about playing on a Belleville team that were like the Leafs equivalent in the AHL, whereas the Marlies were like the Sens equivalent in the AHL. Brannstrom played only 27 AHL games last season because he joined the Senators for 31 games this season, which is very impressive. He looked great and is poised to become a star in the very near future.
Liljegren doesn’t beat Brannstrom anywhere in terms of production and overall stock, but he’s in the ballpark, which is a good sign. On a strong AHL team, Brannstrom had 0.296 even-strength primary points per game and 0.148 power play primary points per game. Liljegren’s numbers in those categories on a much worse Marlies team were 0.275 and 0.200. Better on the power play, but slightly worse at even strength.
The B-Sens and Marlies were 10th and 11th in the league in power play goals in the season and Liljegren was a big part of getting the Marlies as high up as they ended. His even strength numbers are also right there despite playing on a polar opposite team in terms of talent and scoring. The B-Sens were first in the league by a mile in goals for, scoring half a goal more per game than the Marlies.
I’m not saying Liljegren could play top pair on Ottawa (Brannstrom played second last season), but he would probably fit in the top-four. On the Leafs, I think he has a real case for the third pair spot and the chance to move up higher as he gets used to the league.
In 2019-20, he played mostly with Sandin and Teemu Kivihalme, the latter of whom isn’t on the same level as Sandin and Rosen. Liljegren played really well with Kivihalme and took more risks and controlled the game more. When he was with Sandin, he often settled for a secondary role and didn’t push to have the puck on his stick as much. I don’t really blame him for that, because Sandin was so great, but it felt like a waste of his talents. Even with Kivihalme, Liljegren tended to hang at the blueline and let his partner jump in, though he showed more aggressiveness on the power play.
I noticed this as well. When both he and Sandin were paired, Lilly was the conservative one and let Sandin take more risks and I can't blame Lilly for that.
The above website had Dermott ranked #8, below Liljegren. Lol, Dermott's been in the League for 3 years. I clicked off after that. What a shame but thats not a surprise considering anything Ive read from that website in the past lacks any type of accuracy, its like listening to Andy Petrillo talking X's and O's on Leafs lunch aka No clue. But certain fans who only want to believe want they want to believe will seek out anything that supports what they feel and use it as some type of truth.
Wafflewhipper
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We believe what we know is true. I know Liljigren is ready. I also know he will be going through a learning curve and confidence curve for awhile. He has all the tools except expierence. He’s a very safe player to maybe a fault right now. He needs to play offensively every opportunity to keep developing his game. He’s too reluctant right now. He has to use his instincts and he will be fine. Lacks confidence right now is all
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The opposite is true, u realize your announcing your lack of judgement with this, thats what that boils down too. No one under the MLSE umbrella thinks this right now, not one knowledgeable fan see's this.
Wafflewhipper
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Its not your fault
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Prodigy MayD
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Liljegren has proved everything he needs to at the AHL level. He is a currently a premier AHL defender for his age. He needs to start building confidence in the NHL. Furthermore, anyone who uses his NHL games this year as real sample is only fooling themselves. He joined the roster when a majority of the defense corps were injured and the team was struggling.
It is still too early to say what a defender like Liljegren may become. If he becomes a staple 2nd pairing guy I would be delighted. At this point, I would just take a right-handed NHLer though.
