Prospect Info: Expectations for Timothy Liljegren in 2020-21

[ACC1224]

This is true, however it can't always be conflated to hockey IQ.
Mitch Marner is not the brightest dude but his hockey IQ is off the charts.

Mitch is dumb as a stump. Good kid though.

 

[stickty111]

Haha i was kidding and said “states”

No worries lol

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Mitch is dumb as a stump. Good kid though.

My mom always told me if there is 1 thing in life to never forget it is this - if you don't have something good to say about someone then zip it. Now I too often break that rule. In hockey I believe you can be dumb as a doorknob but at same time have off da chart hockey sense on ice. I always wondered if it is because da teachers used to always put us down because we liked to play instead of read. But it does not mean someone is stupid because they want to play rather than read a book. I was told I would never go to uni in high school because I was such a clown and jerk. Truth was I did not care about da system of school. I had more fun hanging with guys and playing everyday. But after it was over and reality kicked in I knew I needed a skill if i was going to survive. So i turned my attention to succeed at it. You gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

LOL if you read this article, there's nothing saying mono is the reason he dropped. They say his second half of the season he had spotty play. To say that spotty play was due to mono is speculation. He dropped in the draft because his play dropped off a bit. Maybe due to mono, maybe not. Joining a season halfway through is tough for some players, look at Willy last year.

Have you ever had mono? It kicks your ass for a while after. Its not just one person who said his playing time and play was affected. It was quite widely accepted. No one expected him to drop so far down the 1st round. Most people had him easily in the top 10 let alone top 5.

Everyone elses loss is our gain in the end.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Have you ever had mono? It kicks your ass for a while after. Its not just one person who said his playing time and play was affected. It was quite widely accepted. No one expected him to drop so far down the 1st round. Most people had him easily in the top 10 let alone top 5.

Everyone elses loss is our gain in the end.

I seen it take a couple people down in our friends group and we were all scared sh!tless we were going to get it. It’s nasty and had long lasting effects interms of energy and just generally how they felt. It lasted months because they always told us it just drags on. Its months of illness and it is very life threatening also.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

 

[Morbo]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

Good question.. I'd say Sandin has looked more impressive of the two thus far, but neither are ready for high intensity hockey against quality opposition yet.

 

[Morbo]

Mitch is dumb as a stump. Good kid though.

he is, but when it comes to hockey he's a genius level IQ. idiot savant maybe? lol

 

[stickty111]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

Both are tracking to be top 4 defenceman, but probably Sandin will be the better player.

 

[4thline]

This is what Bob said.

Liljegren by the way, has had a better year than Sandin. If this was a right-shot D that went out, Liljegren would be in the line-up and Sandin would still be in the minors. Liljegren has been significantly better than Sandin over the course of the season. He's the next-man-up in terms of a longer-term assignment, unless Sandin comes up and picks up where he left off at the WJC and takes over.

Here is another quote.
Bob said " the funny thing was over the course of this season, organizationally it would be fair to say Leafs thought Liljegren was better then Sandin in the AHL. Now of course Sandin did well in the World Juniors, and got the quick call up, and has played really well here. I think the upside is higher for Sandin. By all accounts though, Liljegren has played really well with the Marlies. In terms of the pecking order, he was kind of perceived to be maybe ahead of Sandin, but they brought Sandin up because they needed a left shot D. He also has the untouchables are Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson and the big 4.

So this isn't just me saying it. The otganization also felt the same way

Could I get a link on that article?

 

[TML1967]

I just hope he has been watching clips of Scott Niedermayer and Lindstrom.

I think the goal is to get him to play that kind of game, very cereberal. Be in the right spot, be quick on your edges, make the smart play, and know when to jump up.
He doesnt need to block a billion shots with his face or throw huge hits to show value.

He was drafted as a smart positional player with offensive upside, and form what ive seen (ive only seen him play maybe 25 times) and read, his defensive game has developed to a real 'PRO' level very fast.
IMO, he could have been a bottom pair RHD this whole year if he had a solid partner who was also defensively capable.

Long term, my money is on him being a solid #3-4 guy in the mold of Anton Stralman circa his first two years in Tampa. Not a PP QB, can play PP if a forward is the real QB, 2nd unit PK, heavy even strength minutes kind of guy.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

I think in terms of offense, Sandin will likely be better. His shot is more dangerous, while Liljegren is better with the puck on his stick and rushing with it. Sandin has more to bring in the IQ department, which is his separating skill from most prospects, but I feel like Liljegren is a slightly better skater. Defensively, Liljegren is superior right now, but when all is said and done, I imagine they will be about equal.

In terms of upside, both have borderline #2/high-end #3 upside. It could turn out that Sandin becomes a really good #3 while Liljegren just turns into a solid #3 or a really high end #4, which really is not that huge of a difference.

 

[Gabriel426]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

As of right now, probably Sandin despite his weakness-his size. As I think with age, he will overcome that.
TL seems to have all the tools but he needs to put them together. Confidence is the key for him.

 

[Menzinger]

Question for Leafs nation.

Who do you think is going to be better, Liljegren, or Sandin?

Sandin

Higher hockey IQ and so far has shown a speeder development path.

 

[34]

Give him a shot, but I am not convinced he is going to make it.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I think in terms of offense, Sandin will likely be better. His shot is more dangerous, while Liljegren is better with the puck on his stick and rushing with it. Sandin has more to bring in the IQ department, which is his separating skill from most prospects, but I feel like Liljegren is a slightly better skater. Defensively, Liljegren is superior right now, but when all is said and done, I imagine they will be about equal.

In terms of upside, both have borderline #2/high-end #3 upside. It could turn out that Sandin becomes a really good #3 while Liljegren just turns into a solid #3 or a really high end #4, which really is not that huge of a difference.

This is 100% wrong. Its not my opinion, its facts that Sandin is far superior carrying the puck. Liljegren is not superior in any aspect over Sandin.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I just hope he has been watching clips of Scott Niedermayer and Lindstrom.

I think the goal is to get him to play that kind of game, very cereberal. Be in the right spot, be quick on your edges, make the smart play, and know when to jump up.
He doesnt need to block a billion shots with his face or throw huge hits to show value.

He was drafted as a smart positional player with offensive upside, and form what ive seen (ive only seen him play maybe 25 times) and read, his defensive game has developed to a real 'PRO' level very fast.
IMO, he could have been a bottom pair RHD this whole year if he had a solid partner who was also defensively capable.

Long term, my money is on him being a solid #3-4 guy in the mold of Anton Stralman circa his first two years in Tampa. Not a PP QB, can play PP if a forward is the real QB, 2nd unit PK, heavy even strength minutes kind of guy.

Come on man. Liljegren does not have the hands, vision, deception to carry the puck at the NHL level. Thats some of his problem, Liljegren does not look good at all when he goes for a skate at the NHL level. Not right now at least.

Liljegren needs to play a Ron Hainsey style. Liljegren strength is his skating, he can focus on gap control, puck management, make simple plays to get the puck out of the zone, battle in the corners for possession. That should be his phase 1. Liljegren will not make the NHL, if he tries to be a puck moving d-man at the start of his career. IF he passes phase 1, he will be comfortable and confident to possibly start using stretch passes , pinching, rush more with the puck etc. Not alot of glory playing defense first style for alot of dmen but its so incredibly valuable.

One of the most under rated things about Justin Holl's game , is his timing for pinching is excellent. Its not often, but when he does he has room and space and goes for it. It somewhat, catches teams off guard.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

This is 100% wrong. Its not my opinion, its facts that Sandin is far superior carrying the puck. Liljegren is not superior in any aspect over Sandin.

This is blatantly false.

I'll give you the offense. Sandin has put up some of the best offensive numbers ever for a teenager in AHL history and was better than Liljegren at the same age in this regard. He has also been fed way more PP time over the last two seasons but I'll give you that one.

Defensively it isn't even close Liljegren has a huge edge. Since late last year Liljegren has been one of the best defensive players in the AHL and a force on the PK as well as 5 on 5.

This year Sandin struggled in the AHL playing the top pair role defensively this year and after a quick burst he really struggled down the stretch for the Leafs too. He has a long way to go to get to Liljegrens level of play in the defensive zone.

If you're basing your evaluation of Lily off of 11 NHL games where he averaged 10 minutes a night and less than a minute in the third period over his past year and a half in the AHL as a 19/20 year old, I think you'll be very happy to be wrong when he makes the jump full time.

 

[stickty111]

Offense: Sandin over Liljegren
Defense: Liljegren over Sandin. In the AHL playoffs as they went along, Liljegren was amazing while Sandin really struggled. This season Lilly just continued that momentum, while Sandin still struggled defensively. The eye test and the stats all showed it.

 

[stickty111]

This is 100% wrong. Its not my opinion, its facts that Sandin is far superior carrying the puck. Liljegren is not superior in any aspect over Sandin.

No you are 100% wrong. Defensively Lilly is much better and it's not even close.

 

[stickty111]

Come on man. Liljegren does not have the hands, vision, deception to carry the puck at the NHL level. Thats some of his problem, Liljegren does not look good at all when he goes for a skate at the NHL level. Not right now at least.

Liljegren needs to play a Ron Hainsey style. Liljegren strength is his skating, he can focus on gap control, puck management, make simple plays to get the puck out of the zone, battle in the corners for possession. That should be his phase 1. Liljegren will not make the NHL, if he tries to be a puck moving d-man at the start of his career. IF he passes phase 1, he will be comfortable and confident to possibly start using stretch passes , pinching, rush more with the puck etc. Not alot of glory playing defense first style for alot of dmen but its so incredibly valuable.

One of the most under rated things about Justin Holl's game , is his timing for pinching is excellent. Its not often, but when he does he has room and space and goes for it. It somewhat, catches teams off guard.

Saying the same thing twice doesn't make it true. Lilly's puck rushing and puck carrying ability is one of his biggest strengths.

 

[stickty111]

Could I get a link on that article?

In regards to the 1st paragraph. He said it on the Jan 14th episode of Overdrive

OverDrive - January 14, 2020 - Hour 3

In regards to the 2nd paragraph, he said it on the Jan 28th episode of Overdrive.

OverDrive - January 28, 2020 - Hour 3

 

[TML1967]

Come on man. Liljegren does not have the hands, vision, deception to carry the puck at the NHL level. Thats some of his problem, Liljegren does not look good at all when he goes for a skate at the NHL level. Not right now at least.

Liljegren needs to play a Ron Hainsey style. Liljegren strength is his skating, he can focus on gap control, puck management, make simple plays to get the puck out of the zone, battle in the corners for possession. That should be his phase 1. Liljegren will not make the NHL, if he tries to be a puck moving d-man at the start of his career. IF he passes phase 1, he will be comfortable and confident to possibly start using stretch passes , pinching, rush more with the puck etc. Not alot of glory playing defense first style for alot of dmen but its so incredibly valuable.

One of the most under rated things about Justin Holl's game , is his timing for pinching is excellent. Its not often, but when he does he has room and space and goes for it. It somewhat, catches teams off guard.

By no means do I think he is gonna be one of those guys, either in talent level or overall impact.
But he needs to continue to work on positioning, separating guys from the puck with his skating and stick, and to me there are few better to watch and learn that from than Neidermeyer and Lindstrom.

I do disagree on him being a 'Hainsey' type, because Hainsey eve when he was younger was not a good skater. Thats why I used the comparison to Stralman, about the same size and with similar limitations post draft.

 

[Einzakin]

Hainsey has about 400x better hockey sense than Lilly. Always has.

Liljgren does nothing special. He's okay defensively for his age, and has some good strength for a young guy. Not really great at anything and pretty bad hockey sense relative to NHL players. Sandin is much better in most categories other than strength.

Sandin will be a regular on the Leafs, and Lilly will start on the Marlies, hopefully improving his game and becoming atleast a 3rd pairing defenceman. I have my doubts, but it's possible.

 

[stickty111]

People are going to think I am slighting on Sandin, but I'm not. I predict Sandin to be the better player because he was better at the same age, and produced more. However I still get the feeling both will be partners in the NHL as top 4 defenceman, and both could move up when needed. I expect Sandin to take the same gigantic step defensively that Lilly did, maybe as soon as this season if there is hockey obviously.
We should both be happy we have 2 stud young defenceman in the system and lets not forget about Dermott either.