OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 6

[Tuna99]

Everyone has a different moral compass on issues. If you're fine with it then do your thing, I have no doubt many are doing the same. I'm not here to judge individuals on their choices but I do hold a different view on the issue. I just wish the world would be maybe a little more compassionate, particularly in a crisis that we're in. But that is probably a little unrealistic.

Is there such a thing as society or just individuals and their families trying to make it through life?

 

[JD1]

I would just like to polemicise with this point. I will take an example from here in the Czech Republic. In the spring the government here reacted quickly, shutting things down with the first cases. Non-essential shops, businesses working remotely, even many factories shut down. As a result the country went largely unscathed and was touted as a success. During that time bars and restaurants were closed, but were allowed to have "take-out windows". Many people took advantage of this to drink their beer out of a plastic cup on the sidewalk while chatting with others doing the same. It wasn't a good look to be sure, but police would just occasionally pass by and tell people to separate, wear their masks, recommend going home if it was really late. Cases remained low.

Fast forward to the fall, cases here started rising in late August, continued in September, the government did nothing because regional elections were coming up and they didn't want people to get mad at them. After the elections they started shutting things down, but haphazardly, with empty promises of re-opening in a couple weeks, and all of it far too late. Cases continued to rise and who was blamed? Of course the "people not following the rules". They banned consumption of alcohol outdoors and when they suspected people were still drinking too much they forced shops to shut at 8pm and introduced a curfew for good measure. All the while, the virus was gleefully spreading at normal white-collar offices, who had much lower rates of remote work than the spring and no regulation of mask-wearing, it was spreading at factories, it was spreading like mad at medical facilities, where medical staff would actually just not get tested when they were sick because otherwise there wouldn't be enough staff, all of this because of government failure. But of course, it was the people having some drinks in the park, outdoors for god's sake, that were the scapegoats, despite no evidence that was a source of spread.

Tl;dr - pitting the people suffering against each other while others profit is a trick as old as time

I'm onboard with this.

Without full on contact tracing we're not overly sure of the primary points of admission

But the little guy suffers

The idea of an excess profit is something I am warming up to

 

[Sens]

I'm onboard with this.

Without full on contact tracing we're not overly sure of the primary points of admission

But the little guy suffers

The idea of an excess profit is something I am warming up to

Dr Yaffe yesterday said they can’t contract trace 1/3 of cases
Closing small business is a Hail Mary attempt

 

[Sens]

Hamilton helicopter people is flying people from Hamilton to Buffalo
These people have there cars clear customs
Pick up the car on the other side... continue their drive to Florida

that’s how you pass the USA closed border now

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Pinning this lockdown on people not following guidelines is such a simple and wrong way to look at it. It's a cop out to point the finger at something/someone

 

[Knave]

Pinning this lockdowns on people not following guidelines is such a simple and wrong way to look at it. It's a cop out to point the finger at something/someone

How about those two people in Ottawa who went on a bar hopping adventure while waiting for test results they knew might be positive? At some point it comes down to personal responsibility.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

How about those two people in Ottawa who went on a bar hopping adventure while waiting for test results they knew might be positive? At some point it comes down to personal responsibility.

Sure they are part of the problem but you pinning the lockdowns solely on the actions of those people does not paint the entire picture.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Hamilton helicopter people is flying people from Hamilton to Buffalo
These people have there cars clear customs
Pick up the car on the other side... continue their drive to Florida

that’s how you pass the USA closed border now

Yup, snowbirds are flying.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

hockey banned on outdoor rinks in gatineau

 

[Sens]

Dude opened up his restaurant in Toronto and it’s literally being flocked to

 

[5ive4Fighting]

Of course we will be dealing with it for years. We are still dealing with SARs. Remember that? When you get your flu shot it contains the vaccination for SARs in it too. It is an added thing we will need to deal with for rest of our lives, the point is once we can vaccinate people the numbers of people that get sick and die from it will drop dramatically to the point it becomes normal like the flu.

There isn't any vaccine for SARS. There was never a candidate that was proven safe or efficacious in humans, and then development efforts pretty much stopped because the market stopped driving things when the disease was effectively eradicated in humans via other means.

 

[Sens]

Trudeau right now... will be March/April before he can begin distributing vaccines to provinces

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

As with anything else, this is a nuanced issue. It doesn't have to be either government intervention and regulation OR personal accountability. But we have much more direct control over one than the other.

 

[Sens]

Trudeau danced around the question if Canada will have to wait until other countries finish vaccinating there own country before Canada gets vaccines

Canada does not own and vaccine production
He said he’s working hard to ensure contracts are kept

 

[Upgrayedd]

hockey banned on outdoor rinks in gatineau

Idiocracy at its finest lol, what a sick species humans have become, certainly destined for failure imo

 

[maclean]

Pinning this lockdown on people not following guidelines is such a simple and wrong way to look at it. It's a cop out to point the finger at something/someone

Exactly.

Hamilton helicopter people is flying people from Hamilton to Buffalo
These people have there cars clear customs
Pick up the car on the other side... continue their drive to Florida

that’s how you pass the USA closed border now

Oops, I take it back, f*** people not following guidelines

 

[mianjo]

Hamilton helicopter people is flying people from Hamilton to Buffalo
These people have there cars clear customs
Pick up the car on the other side... continue their drive to Florida

that’s how you pass the USA closed border now

Happening at Quebec/Us border as well https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/snowbirds-canada-u-s-border-drive-winter-travel-covid-19-1.5810104

 

[DrEasy]

I would just like to polemicise with this point. I will take an example from here in the Czech Republic. In the spring the government here reacted quickly, shutting things down with the first cases. Non-essential shops, businesses working remotely, even many factories shut down. As a result the country went largely unscathed and was touted as a success. During that time bars and restaurants were closed, but were allowed to have "take-out windows". Many people took advantage of this to drink their beer out of a plastic cup on the sidewalk while chatting with others doing the same. It wasn't a good look to be sure, but police would just occasionally pass by and tell people to separate, wear their masks, recommend going home if it was really late. Cases remained low.

Fast forward to the fall, cases here started rising in late August, continued in September, the government did nothing because regional elections were coming up and they didn't want people to get mad at them. After the elections they started shutting things down, but haphazardly, with empty promises of re-opening in a couple weeks, and all of it far too late. Cases continued to rise and who was blamed? Of course the "people not following the rules". They banned consumption of alcohol outdoors and when they suspected people were still drinking too much they forced shops to shut at 8pm and introduced a curfew for good measure. All the while, the virus was gleefully spreading at normal white-collar offices, who had much lower rates of remote work than the spring and no regulation of mask-wearing, it was spreading at factories, it was spreading like mad at medical facilities, where medical staff would actually just not get tested when they were sick because otherwise there wouldn't be enough staff, all of this because of government failure. But of course, it was the people having some drinks in the park, outdoors for god's sake, that were the scapegoats, despite no evidence that was a source of spread.

Tl;dr - pitting the people suffering against each other while others profit is a trick as old as time

OK, my previous post was in response to someone else, and out of context it makes seem that I'm 100% blaming lack of personal responsibility, but of course things are nuanced. The government for example had to make a decision to send kids back to school. Clearly this didn't help contain the pandemic, but it was a trade off. Same with deciding to close certain stores that don't sell 100% necessary items and keep other places that sell 100% necessary stuff in addition to less necessary stuff. It's not easy making these decisions, and sometimes the government gets things wrong. This is an unprecedented situation. The government tries to rely on health guidelines, but even those change as we learn more about the virus.

I just find that constant sh*tting on the government is just too easy an escape route. Again I group municipal, provincial, federal together so I'm not making this a left vs right thing. Could government do a better job? Yes, But is it an easy job? Hell no. Can we help them by acting more responsibly? Yes. Is it sufficient? No.

Shizz is complex.

PS: By the way, I don't work for the government, so I'm not taking their side as an interested party.

 

[The Lewler]

Sorry. If the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission, it's useless. And this evidence has yet to be reported.

Is this a serious claim?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Trudeau danced around the question if Canada will have to wait until other countries finish vaccinating there own country before Canada gets vaccines

Canada does not own and vaccine production
He said he’s working hard to ensure contracts are kept

Unsurprisingly, the country with price control over prescription drugs might not be at the front of the line, while our neighbours to the south (who have the highest prescription drug prices in the world) will certainly be top of the list for vaccine delivery.

 

[robsenz]

hockey banned on outdoor rinks in gatineau

I've anticipated this happening in my area as well...so just finished putting up my boards and liner yesterday, can't wait for the weather to cooperate now

 

[Masked]

Happening at Quebec/Us border as well https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/snowbirds-canada-u-s-border-drive-winter-travel-covid-19-1.5810104

Hopefully now that this is going public, the government closes this sort of loophole. But I wonder what their health insurance is like when they're out of country during a pandemic. A hospital stay could bankrupt them.

 

[Sweatred]

I've anticipated this happening in my area as well...so just finished putting up my boards and liner yesterday, can't wait for the weather to cooperate now

We have Ontario schools with 500+ kids outside for recess/lunch every day.. who cares if 25 kids are on the ODR.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

more in the thread

 

[Xspyrit]

Why smart people believe coronavirus myths

In the 80s, 90s, and 2000s we saw the spread of dangerous lies about Aids – from the belief that the HIV virus was created by a government laboratory to the idea that the HIV tests were unreliable, and even the spectacularly unfounded theory that it could be treated with goat’s milk. These claims increased risky behaviour and exacerbated the crisis.

As my friend told me yesterday, we're living in a world where there was human sacrifices to make the rain fall. Starting from that idea, we can't be too surprised that the human being is ready to believe almost anything

COVID-19 Expert Reality Check

So while some will try to minimize people's behavior during the global pandemic, looking around, it seems that the misinformation campain and general disbelief has played a MAJOR role in the continuous spread. The WHO even talked about flattenning the "infodemic curve"

COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization

Some of the things explained in there makes you ask yourself "why does it have to be explained? It's insane that some people could believe those things"

Another interesting article and the places where the virus spread. In Europe, virus transmission via school is not major, and it's probably the most important thing in society (also hard for adults to work if kids don't have school)

Where do people get infected with the coronavirus? | DW | 30.10.2020

How about those two people in Ottawa who went on a bar hopping adventure while waiting for test results they knew might be positive? At some point it comes down to personal responsibility.

It absolutely does. I don't understand how we imagine the virus get spread in reality? It simply is from a person to another. When you only start being careful when you KNOW you have the virus, it's probably already too late.

Most of the cases have been because someone hasn't been cautious enough somewhere. If you are cautious, chances are very low to inexistant that you'll get the virus. But there's obviously situations where it gets harder and harder to be cautious, like school, work, transportation. I'm lucky as I live in suburbs so it's not a hyperdense populated area but I never felt like I could have gotten the virus by being outside or when shopping.

But anyway, look at this story (it's a random one I used before, there's tons of stories like that)

51-year-old who posted regret about going out died of coronavirus a day later

Thomas Macias, a 51-year-old man from California, was being cautious in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic. Then when restrictions were lifted, he decided to go out, ... He later said he regretted it, when he tested positive for COVID-19 after attending a party.

"Then when he heard restrictions were being lifted, things were becoming more lenient, a friend of his put together a barbecue. So he said, 'Okay this is my chance to see my friends."

BIG mistake. IMO it's much better to be bored for a while rather than having your life ending soon. It's just my opinion of course.

"Because of my stupidity I put my mom and sisters and my family's health in jeopardy. This has been a very painful experience," his post continued. "This is no joke. If you have to go out wear a mask and practice social distancing."

Ok he shouldn't have went. But what really should open people's eyes is that he got it from somebody who KNEW he had tested positive... This is not an isolated incident. Imagine how many times that type of situation happened around the globe. Going places as you know you have covid is IMO a crime against humanity, but of course I'm exagerating.

Some other quotes :

"At first, from what he told us, he was upset at this person that went out knowing that he had this virus. Then he said that quickly turned into anger at himself for having put himself in that situation to begin with," Lopez said."

"This kills people. People should follow the guidelines that are out there – not because the government is asking us to, but because the doctors and the experts, people who really know what they're talking about, are saying it," he said.

It's never been about doing what the governments wants like "little white sheep", but doing what is needed to protect everybody, and yourself.

Idiocracy at its finest lol, what a sick species humans have become, certainly destined for failure imo

What do you mean? Because outside rinks are getting closed (not saying I agree with that measure)? I suggest you take a look at history... I have talked about human sacrifices for rain in my post above. Just an example.