OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 6

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Sens

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Jan 7, 2016
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Business should just open up imo


Ford Says He 'Can't Get Angry' At Owner Who Opened His Toronto Restaurant To The Public

Toronto Police and City Bylaw Enforcement Officials have shown up to Adamson Barbecue, which is letting people eat inside in direct contradiction to provincial rules.
But as of yet, no charges have been publicly laid.
Regardless of what happens at the restaurant, Ford says there's a big difference between people partying in their homes and people trying to eat at a local business.
"When it comes to private parties, that's a different ball of wax there," Ford said. "I don't condone that he opened up, but I feel terrible. My heart breaks for these guys and it's not fair.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,039
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Ottawa
We have Ontario schools with 500+ kids outside for recess/lunch every day.. who cares if 25 kids are on the ODR.
Not sure if it is true of every school board, but at the school my son attends even though the kids go outside for recess/lunch they have designated places in the schoolyard for each class to stand. So, they don't actually expand their bubble beyond the kids that are in their own class.

This would not be true of a pickup game of hockey on an outdoor rink.

Note that I disagree with the closure of the rinks. I have a hard time believing during an outdoor pickup game that the virus is likely to spread from one participant to another, and I think for mental health and physical fitness reasons we need to have every outdoor activity going. BUT, I think your comparison to kids at lunch/recess is flawed.
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
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Not sure if it is true of every school board, but at the school my son attends even though the kids go outside for recess/lunch they have designated places in the schoolyard for each class to stand. So, they don't actually expand their bubble beyond the kids that are in their own class.

This would not be true of a pickup game of hockey on an outdoor rink.

Note that I disagree with the closure of the rinks. I have a hard time believing during an outdoor pickup game that the virus is likely to spread from one participant to another, and I think for mental health and physical fitness reasons we need to have every outdoor activity going. BUT, I think your comparison to kids at lunch/recess is flawed.

My kids school has 28 kids in a class and a free for all at recess with teachers trying to police 100’s of kids with masks and close contact. The social interaction every day is 100 x more than an hour on a ODR. The instant they are of school property it’s mask free herding on small side walks.
 

Clayonator

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Aug 11, 2018
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28BE219E-C90D-4BFB-863B-8210B079C8AA.png
 

BankStreetParade

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Jan 22, 2013
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Ottawa
Business should just open up imo


Ford Says He 'Can't Get Angry' At Owner Who Opened His Toronto Restaurant To The Public

Toronto Police and City Bylaw Enforcement Officials have shown up to Adamson Barbecue, which is letting people eat inside in direct contradiction to provincial rules.
But as of yet, no charges have been publicly laid.
Regardless of what happens at the restaurant, Ford says there's a big difference between people partying in their homes and people trying to eat at a local business.
"When it comes to private parties, that's a different ball of wax there," Ford said. "I don't condone that he opened up, but I feel terrible. My heart breaks for these guys and it's not fair.
Why would any business owner risk their business anymore than they already are with the closures? So he can pretend to be some badass? What a shame, their BBQ is so good but there's no reason they can't exist off of a takeout only model. It's f***ing BBQ for God's sake - it's one of the fastest and easiest takeout concepts to execute.
 

maclean

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Jan 4, 2014
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OK, my previous post was in response to someone else, and out of context it makes seem that I'm 100% blaming lack of personal responsibility, but of course things are nuanced. The government for example had to make a decision to send kids back to school. Clearly this didn't help contain the pandemic, but it was a trade off. Same with deciding to close certain stores that don't sell 100% necessary items and keep other places that sell 100% necessary stuff in addition to less necessary stuff. It's not easy making these decisions, and sometimes the government gets things wrong. This is an unprecedented situation. The government tries to rely on health guidelines, but even those change as we learn more about the virus.

I just find that constant sh*tting on the government is just too easy an escape route. Again I group municipal, provincial, federal together so I'm not making this a left vs right thing. Could government do a better job? Yes, But is it an easy job? Hell no. Can we help them by acting more responsibly? Yes. Is it sufficient? No.

Shizz is complex.

PS: By the way, I don't work for the government, so I'm not taking their side as an interested party.

Sorry yeah I meant to preface my rant by saying it's not directed specifically at you, just kind of piggy-backing off of that because it's a sentiment I see expressed over and over with varying degrees of vehemence.

Obviously these are hard decisions to make, but so much we see the people in power making the "easy" ones. Cracking down hardest on restaurants because they're easy to blame, while for example here the PM, who coincidentally just got a new pupper in September, felt it warranted to reopen dog salons...
 

Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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Ottawa
I'm glad we're building facilities to make our own PPE, our own vaccines. Unfortunately the vaccine facilities come too late but we need to protect ourselves when other countries pull back and put their citizens first.

The key is we need to maintain these facilities. Maintain the PPE supply. Maintain stockpiles (why isn't Ontario bulk buying masks, stockpiling and selling from their stockpile so next time we don't run into a situation where the stockpile is expired?).
 

AchtzehnBaby

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Mar 28, 2013
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Why smart people believe coronavirus myths

In the 80s, 90s, and 2000s we saw the spread of dangerous lies about Aids – from the belief that the HIV virus was created by a government laboratory to the idea that the HIV tests were unreliable, and even the spectacularly unfounded theory that it could be treated with goat’s milk. These claims increased risky behaviour and exacerbated the crisis.

As my friend told me yesterday, we're living in a world where there was human sacrifices to make the rain fall. Starting from that idea, we can't be too surprised that the human being is ready to believe almost anything

COVID-19 Expert Reality Check

So while some will try to minimize people's behavior during the global pandemic, looking around, it seems that the misinformation campain and general disbelief has played a MAJOR role in the continuous spread. The WHO even talked about flattenning the "infodemic curve"

COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization

Some of the things explained in there makes you ask yourself "why does it have to be explained? It's insane that some people could believe those things"

Another interesting article and the places where the virus spread. In Europe, virus transmission via school is not major, and it's probably the most important thing in society (also hard for adults to work if kids don't have school)

Where do people get infected with the coronavirus? | DW | 30.10.2020




It absolutely does. I don't understand how we imagine the virus get spread in reality? It simply is from a person to another. When you only start being careful when you KNOW you have the virus, it's probably already too late.

Most of the cases have been because someone hasn't been cautious enough somewhere. If you are cautious, chances are very low to inexistant that you'll get the virus. But there's obviously situations where it gets harder and harder to be cautious, like school, work, transportation. I'm lucky as I live in suburbs so it's not a hyperdense populated area but I never felt like I could have gotten the virus by being outside or when shopping.

But anyway, look at this story (it's a random one I used before, there's tons of stories like that)

51-year-old who posted regret about going out died of coronavirus a day later

Thomas Macias, a 51-year-old man from California, was being cautious in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic. Then when restrictions were lifted, he decided to go out, ... He later said he regretted it, when he tested positive for COVID-19 after attending a party.

"Then when he heard restrictions were being lifted, things were becoming more lenient, a friend of his put together a barbecue. So he said, 'Okay this is my chance to see my friends."

BIG mistake. IMO it's much better to be bored for a while rather than having your life ending soon. It's just my opinion of course.

"Because of my stupidity I put my mom and sisters and my family's health in jeopardy. This has been a very painful experience," his post continued. "This is no joke. If you have to go out wear a mask and practice social distancing."

Ok he shouldn't have went. But what really should open people's eyes is that he got it from somebody who KNEW he had tested positive... This is not an isolated incident. Imagine how many times that type of situation happened around the globe. Going places as you know you have covid is IMO a crime against humanity, but of course I'm exagerating.

Some other quotes :

"At first, from what he told us, he was upset at this person that went out knowing that he had this virus. Then he said that quickly turned into anger at himself for having put himself in that situation to begin with," Lopez said."

"This kills people. People should follow the guidelines that are out there – not because the government is asking us to, but because the doctors and the experts, people who really know what they're talking about, are saying it," he said.

It's never been about doing what the governments wants like "little white sheep", but doing what is needed to protect everybody, and yourself.



What do you mean? Because outside rinks are getting closed (not saying I agree with that measure)? I suggest you take a look at history... I have talked about human sacrifices for rain in my post above. Just an example.


Best link in thread

COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization
 
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maclean

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Jan 4, 2014
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The key is we need to maintain these facilities. Maintain the PPE supply. Maintain stockpiles (why isn't Ontario bulk buying masks, stockpiling and selling from their stockpile so next time we don't run into a situation where the stockpile is expired?).

Yeah here we had a problem where the state had just had to throw out a bunch of expired vaccines and perhaps other medical material from some somewhat recent scare (swine flu maybe?), which perhaps made them hesitant to stock up in earnest in the days when COVID was just some Chinese coronavirus.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
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‘experts’

...there are no experts in this pandemic debacle

they had a vacine in 10 months, what are those people? Try hards?

you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Fauci isn’t an expert? People have literally spend their entire adult lives studying, working and working on this reality. Doctors, Scholars, scientists plenty of people are experts - just because you’re not doesn’t mean there are literally 10s of thousands of people who are experts on this.
 

YouGotAStuGoing

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Mar 26, 2010
19,339
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‘experts’

...there are no experts in this pandemic debacle
It's been a rapidly evolving situation and a lot of assumptions that were made were proven to be incorrect, but there's a difference between saying we don't have the full picture (which is true) and that there are no pandemic experts (which is blatantly false.) Anthony Fauci has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. He's worked on pandemics including Ebola, Zika, H1N1 and Mad Cow disease. And he's just one of many epidemiologists whose opinions are backed by science, evidence and experience.

Frankly, this is a dangerous position to be taking too. Nobody has all the answers, but to claim a complete dearth of expertise is to assign the same value to a lifelong epidemiologist's perspective as to someone making a post on a message board.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,714
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It's been a rapidly evolving situation and a lot of assumptions that were made were proven to be incorrect, but there's a difference between saying we don't have the full picture (which is true) and that there are no pandemic experts (which is blatantly false.) Anthony Fauci has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. He's worked on pandemics including Ebola, Zika, H1N1 and Mad Cow disease. And he's just one of many epidemiologists whose opinions are backed by science, evidence and experience.

Frankly, this is a dangerous position to be taking too. Nobody has all the answers, but to claim a complete dearth of expertise is to assign the same value to a lifelong epidemiologist's perspective as to someone making a post on a message board.

I’m not an expert but I can predict the future - When hockey starts again Matt Murray will make a save, Thomas Chabot will get an assist, Brady Tkachuk will score a goal. Not an expert, just a guy who can see the future.
 
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branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
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It's been a rapidly evolving situation and a lot of assumptions that were made were proven to be incorrect, but there's a difference between saying we don't have the full picture (which is true) and that there are no pandemic experts (which is blatantly false.) Anthony Fauci has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. He's worked on pandemics including Ebola, Zika, H1N1 and Mad Cow disease. And he's just one of many epidemiologists whose opinions are backed by science, evidence and experience.

Frankly, this is a dangerous position to be taking too. Nobody has all the answers, but to claim a complete dearth of expertise is to assign the same value to a lifelong epidemiologist's perspective as to someone making a post on a message board.
Honestly this entire thread is just full of Facebook Dad With Oakley Gascan Sunglasses/Holding a Fish-tier of embarrassment. Just total shit and I am ashamed to say that I read this page for 3-7 minutes twice per week.
 
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AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
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It's been a rapidly evolving situation and a lot of assumptions that were made were proven to be incorrect, but there's a difference between saying we don't have the full picture (which is true) and that there are no pandemic experts (which is blatantly false.) Anthony Fauci has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. He's worked on pandemics including Ebola, Zika, H1N1 and Mad Cow disease. And he's just one of many epidemiologists whose opinions are backed by science, evidence and experience.

Frankly, this is a dangerous position to be taking too. Nobody has all the answers, but to claim a complete dearth of expertise is to assign the same value to a lifelong epidemiologist's perspective as to someone making a post on a message board.

Maybe you interpreted my opinion as pandemic in general.

There are no experts for COVID-19. It is obvious.

My point was that this is all uncharted waters. Day in day out.

Stop stressing out and stay safe.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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It's been a rapidly evolving situation and a lot of assumptions that were made were proven to be incorrect, but there's a difference between saying we don't have the full picture (which is true) and that there are no pandemic experts (which is blatantly false.) Anthony Fauci has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. He's worked on pandemics including Ebola, Zika, H1N1 and Mad Cow disease. And he's just one of many epidemiologists whose opinions are backed by science, evidence and experience.

Frankly, this is a dangerous position to be taking too. Nobody has all the answers, but to claim a complete dearth of expertise is to assign the same value to a lifelong epidemiologist's perspective as to someone making a post on a message board.

Recognizing there's no experts would be giving ammo to random conspirationists that anything they say might actually hold the road. Science is the expert. People using it are not perfect and their assumptions/conclusions are not always 100% exact or perfect, but I think most are trying really hard. What these people will reveal is the closest thing there is to an expertise, we can absolutely rely on it even if nothing is 100%

I think what Variable intended to say is that there's no "real experts" for the covid as it is a brand new virus. Even the experts are still learning about it everyday. A bit of a misunderstanding here
 

Sensmileletsgo

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Oct 22, 2018
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they had a vacine in 10 months, what are those people? Try hards?

you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Fauci isn’t an expert? People have literally spend their entire adult lives studying, working and working on this reality. Doctors, Scholars, scientists plenty of people are experts - just because you’re not doesn’t mean there are literally 10s of thousands of people who are experts on this.
Imagine being an expert in infectious disease and telling your country not to wear masks during a respiratory pandemic :laugh:

I’m kidding, just like Variable was kidding when he said there are no experts on this.
 

YouGotAStuGoing

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
19,339
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Ottawa, Ontario
Maybe you interpreted my opinion as pandemic in general.

There are no experts for COVID-19. It is obvious.

My point was that this is all uncharted waters. Day in day out.

Stop stressing out and stay safe.
A misinterpretation of intent on my behalf, then, which makes my reply definitely not targeted at you! But if I can misinterpret it, so can others... so I just wanted to clarify in case there are any clinging to the viewpoint I'm addressing. It's unfortunately still too common. Even though we're all learning as we go, some have the experience and ability to learn at a higher level than your average person. And since some still share Joe Rogan podcasts as though they're gospel, it seems like a point worth re-iterating.
 
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