OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 6

[Sens]

Small business was crushed in Toronto right before Christmas

I hope they are ready for the civil unrest to follow

 

[Masked]

Ya, I agree, I'm just venting and am frustrated with the rules that are crushing small business.

It's frustrating to see a small business not be allowed to sell something while a company like amazon, wal mart, or PC Superstore can.

I fully believe that the government is not doing this because they want to and are looking after the publics best interest. It just really sucks for small business.

They can still sell stuff. They just can't have people in their stores. They can do online orders and/or have a pickup window.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

They can still sell stuff. They just can't have people in their stores. They can do online orders and/or have a pickup window.

That's devastating to a lot of businesses. Shipping rates and speeds in Canada are awful for small businesses compared to Amazon.

The government obviously knows all of this and right now and it isn't a priority because of the current health crisis, but hopefully they have a plan on how to help small businesses and tax large corporations who have benefited from the pandemic when we Build Back Better.

 

[Sens]

The civil unrest is going to become unreal with tens of thousands of small business crushed right before Christmas

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The civil unrest is going to become unreal with tens of thousands of small business crushed right before Christmas

Didn't the government recently rolled out some new rent relief support?

 

[Stylizer1]

Where is the evidence that the population is not being responsible? Isolated incidents, ok, but for the numbers to be"out of control" there has to be a lot more going on. This seems like a way for the Government to distance themselves from the spread and make it out to be not there fault.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Well, some of the Small Business Owner's frustration should be directed at his colleagues who didn't follow the rules. After all, the lockdowns and shutdowns only occur because people don't follow the rules. It's not like the government (provincial or federal or municipal; doesn't matter) are doing this out of masochistic enjoyment.

It's asinine to punish businesses who comply by the guidelines because another business in the same field couldn't.

 

[Stylizer1]

How about the government tell lending institutions that they are to shut down for 3 months to give everyone relief? No one would need to work to make rent/mortgage payments and they could actually take care of themselves and there family.

Why do banks get to still earn record profits?

 

[Sens]

Didn't the government recently rolled out some new rent relief support?

more bills than just rent brother

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Didn't the government recently rolled out some new rent relief support?

It's like being given a life jacket while the titanic is sinking.

 

[JD1]

The thing that irks me is that is there really a mountain of evidence that transmission within small businesses is the issue?

It's Monday. I had a busy weekend with errands and getting stuff done. My perhaps overly simplistic take was transmission of the virus would be more possible in the Metro, Canadian Tire and Lowe's that i went to as opposed to the two stops i made at small businesses where i was in and out at both in three minutes and I was the only customer

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The people who really should be punished are the people who leave their shopping carts in the middle of a parking spot.

This applies pre Covid too.

 

[SPF6ty9]

The thing that irks me is that is there really a mountain of evidence that transmission within small businesses is the issue?

It's Monday. I had a busy weekend with errands and getting stuff done. My perhaps overly simplistic take was transmission of the virus would be more possible in the Metro, Canadian Tire and Lowe's that i went to as opposed to the two stops i made at small businesses where i was in and out at both in three minutes and I was the only customer

It's the anti-CERB, rather than make sure everyone has access to help it's making sure everyone gets punished. Wish there was an easy way to properly identify the irresponsible minority, feeling for those who's livelihoods are at risk.

And wow, the guy taking CERB who doesn't need it makes my blood boil. Particularly knowing people who have been able to get it but have not bothered because they don't need it and it isn't the right thing to do. Hopefully the gov. will be recouping money from the majority of those cases. It's selfishness like that in what's hopefully just a minority of people is why cases are back on the rise.

 

[Sens]

It's the anti-CERB, rather than make sure everyone has access to help it's making sure everyone gets punished. Wish there was an easy way to properly identify the irresponsible minority, feeling for those who's livelihoods are at risk.

And wow, the guy taking CERB who doesn't need it makes my blood boil. Particularly knowing people who have been able to get it but have not bothered because they don't need it and it isn't the right thing to do. Hopefully the gov. will be recouping money from the majority of those cases. That type of selfishness in what's hopefully just a minority of people is why cases are back on the rise.

I reported all the income I made to the government during EI/CERB... even when my company paid me out my vacation pay

Government was more than happy to cut me a cheque

my boss/owner gets triggered from time to time cause me and another employee are cashing in while he’s getting f***ed by the government

 

[SPF6ty9]

I reported all the income I made to the government during EI/CERB... even when my company paid me out my vacation pay

Government was more than happy to cut me a cheque

my boss/owner gets triggered from time to time cause me and another employee are cashing in while he’s getting f***ed by the government

Everyone has a different moral compass on issues. If you're fine with it then do your thing, I have no doubt many are doing the same. I'm not here to judge individuals on their choices but I do hold a different view on the issue. I just wish the world would be maybe a little more compassionate, particularly in a crisis that we're in. But that is probably a little unrealistic.

 

[Micklebot]

The thing that irks me is that is there really a mountain of evidence that transmission within small businesses is the issue?

It's Monday. I had a busy weekend with errands and getting stuff done. My perhaps overly simplistic take was transmission of the virus would be more possible in the Metro, Canadian Tire and Lowe's that i went to as opposed to the two stops i made at small businesses where i was in and out at both in three minutes and I was the only customer

Hard to say i guess. Go to metro and its a huge open space with 40 foot high ceilings. If you think of a person infected by Covid like a guy smoking, which space is going to have that smoke linger longer? Obviously more traffic in the bigger business means more "smokers", i really don't have an answer for which would be more likely to cause spread but it might not be the obvious answer.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

more bills than just rent brother

For sure but rent is probably the biggest deciding factor in which businesses are able to cope or not during a lockdown

 

[GCK]

For sure but rent is probably the biggest deciding factor in which businesses are able to cope or not during a lockdown

Luckily the Ontario gov is helping with hydro and property taxes for businesses

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Luckily the Ontario gov is helping with hydro and property taxes for businesses

Quebec is doing a good job of helping business owners too

 

[Stylizer1]

Quebec is doing a good job of helping business owners too

all too late

 

[Billy Bridges]

I wouldn’t say useless. It has been reported that it does not prevent transmission. Only kills symptoms. Which in itself is valuable. That can save a lot of lives.

Useless was a strong word. If a vaccine stops infection, then it should be stopping transmission. If it doesn't, it's not an ideal vaccine.

My understanding is that we don't know if it prevents transmission or not, because that is a not primary endpoint to the current studies. So we will get the first 3 vaccines rolled out, but we may need better, or modified vaccines to truly end this.

 

[Xspyrit]

Well, some of the Small Business Owner's frustration should be directed at his colleagues who didn't follow the rules. After all, the lockdowns and shutdowns only occur because people don't follow the rules. It's not like the government (provincial or federal or municipal; doesn't matter) are doing this out of masochistic enjoyment.

You clearly haven't seen the manchurian candidate!

(Pretty good movie by the way)

That's devastating to a lot of businesses. Shipping rates and speeds in Canada are awful for small businesses compared to Amazon.

The government obviously knows all of this and right now and it isn't a priority because of the current health crisis, but hopefully they have a plan on how to help small businesses and tax large corporations who have benefited from the pandemic when we Build Back Better.

Yeah, we'll need time. Hopefully we can repair a lot of damage done.

 

[GCK]

Useless was a strong word. If a vaccine stops infection, then it should be stopping transmission. If it doesn't, it's not an ideal vaccine.

My understanding is that we don't know if it prevents transmission or not, because that is a not primary endpoint to the current studies. So we will get the first 3 vaccines rolled out, but we may need better, or modified vaccines to truly end this.

How is a vaccine supposed to stop infection, it’s not logical. A vaccine isn’t a force field.

 

[Knave]

COVID zero is such a farce. We're not an Asian country where privacy rights don't exist and we're not Australia or New Zealand - in the middle of nowhere.

Sure it sounds good but reality is it's impossible. We respect privacy rights and we don't have access to your medical file, your phone number and your cell GPS ready to violate rights at the first positive test. And in terms of New Zealand and Australia - take a look at normal or restricted air traffic. The only place with less air traffic (domestic or international) is Africa. We'd have to put in place actual border control restrictions that would be much more devastating for the economy. We'd have to convince the Supreme Court to bar entry to Canadians and permanent residents returning among a whole list of things they would never let a government do.

 

[maclean]

Well, some of the Small Business Owner's frustration should be directed at his colleagues who didn't follow the rules. After all, the lockdowns and shutdowns only occur because people don't follow the rules. It's not like the government (provincial or federal or municipal; doesn't matter) are doing this out of masochistic enjoyment.

I would just like to polemicise with this point. I will take an example from here in the Czech Republic. In the spring the government here reacted quickly, shutting things down with the first cases. Non-essential shops, businesses working remotely, even many factories shut down. As a result the country went largely unscathed and was touted as a success. During that time bars and restaurants were closed, but were allowed to have "take-out windows". Many people took advantage of this to drink their beer out of a plastic cup on the sidewalk while chatting with others doing the same. It wasn't a good look to be sure, but police would just occasionally pass by and tell people to separate, wear their masks, recommend going home if it was really late. Cases remained low.

Fast forward to the fall, cases here started rising in late August, continued in September, the government did nothing because regional elections were coming up and they didn't want people to get mad at them. After the elections they started shutting things down, but haphazardly, with empty promises of re-opening in a couple weeks, and all of it far too late. Cases continued to rise and who was blamed? Of course the "people not following the rules". They banned consumption of alcohol outdoors and when they suspected people were still drinking too much they forced shops to shut at 8pm and introduced a curfew for good measure. All the while, the virus was gleefully spreading at normal white-collar offices, who had much lower rates of remote work than the spring and no regulation of mask-wearing, it was spreading at factories, it was spreading like mad at medical facilities, where medical staff would actually just not get tested when they were sick because otherwise there wouldn't be enough staff, all of this because of government failure. But of course, it was the people having some drinks in the park, outdoors for god's sake, that were the scapegoats, despite no evidence that was a source of spread.

Tl;dr - pitting the people suffering against each other while others profit is a trick as old as time