Player Discussion Evan Bouchard: One for the Money, Two for the Bouch

[Stoneman89]

If they're going to the trouble of getting Bouchard to fly all the way back here now, I would have to think they have some inside tell that training camp is going to start fairly soon.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There is no way Bouchard replaces Larsson. The Oil have added smaller finesse players up from and have lost an all situation 22 minute veteran defenseman who will be replaced by one unproven young defender (Jones), an elite offensive finesse d-man (Barrie), and a long on the tooth thirty something small defender (Russell). Larsson's a twenty minute aggressive quality defender whose experience and edge will be needed for this team and on a shorten schedule.

This Oiler team is in high need of cutting down goals against versus stacking more players to add counting points. It's not a Bouchard v Larsson competition. It's a team effort to get better behind goaltending which wasn't improved this off season despite aggressive efforts to do so and buying in to own zone commitment and will to defend and keep goals out. Larsson makes it difficult on opposition to get into the cherry scoring areas on the ice. He's still got the pedigree and ill will to be an important minute eater, match up and pk/last minutes of games veteran on a still very much in development team.

Bouchard's a really nice higher end prospect whose getting pro experience which will help round out his game. He'll push for an NHL roster spot but covid dash and Barrie's signing helps mitigate an old Oilers bad tendency to overplay young talent before they are fully ready.

 

[ujju2]

There is no way Bouchard replaces Larsson. The Oil have added smaller finesse players up from and have lost an all situation 22 minute veteran defenseman who will be replaced by one unproven young defender (Jones), an elite offensive finesse d-man (Barrie), and a long on the tooth thirty something small defender (Russell). Larsson's a twenty minute aggressive quality defender whose experience and edge will be needed for this team and on a shorten schedule.

This Oiler team is in high need of cutting down goals against versus stacking more players to add counting points. It's not a Bouchard v Larsson competition. It's a team effort to get better behind goaltending which wasn't improved this off season despite aggressive efforts to do so and buying in to own zone commitment and will to defend and keep goals out. Larsson makes it difficult on opposition to get into the cherry scoring areas on the ice. He's still got the pedigree and ill will to be an important minute eater, match up and pk/last minutes of games veteran on a still very much in development team.

Yup. Next year I expect Barrie signs a big contract elsewhere and Bouchard makes it into the lineup full-time. I also expect Broberg makes the jump the same season. Which means either Jones or Klefbom is probably gone by the expansion draft at the latest.

Nurse-Bear
Jones-Bouchard
Broberg-Larsson

Not sure where Samorukov fits in (or Lennstrom or any other prospects).

 

[Aerchon]

There is no way Bouchard replaces Larsson. The Oil have added smaller finesse players up from and have lost an all situation 22 minute veteran defenseman who will be replaced by one unproven young defender (Jones), an elite offensive finesse d-man (Barrie), and a long on the tooth thirty something small defender (Russell). Larsson's a twenty minute aggressive quality defender whose experience and edge will be needed for this team and on a shorten schedule.

This Oiler team is in high need of cutting down goals against versus stacking more players to add counting points. It's not a Bouchard v Larsson competition. It's a team effort to get better behind goaltending which wasn't improved this off season despite aggressive efforts to do so and buying in to own zone commitment and will to defend and keep goals out. Larsson makes it difficult on opposition to get into the cherry scoring areas on the ice. He's still got the pedigree and ill will to be an important minute eater, match up and pk/last minutes of games veteran on a still very much in development team.

I'm a big Larsson fan and love that style of player but for whatever reason he has not been great in that role.

Now I agree with Bouchard being a rookie, and one not able to skate his way out of trouble either, I think it unlikely he could replace Larsson... but...

Bouchard's puck moving is pretty awesome. Ditto his offense. He couldnt replace a prime fully functioning Larsson, not even close, but the Larsson we have more often than not may well be replaceable without losing too much.

This would be Bouchard playing better defensively than credited to date and Larsson underwhelming a bit but it's not far fetched imo. I do think Bouchards overall game is being slept on by many.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yup. Next year I expect Barrie signs a big contract elsewhere and Bouchard makes it into the lineup full-time. I also expect Broberg makes the jump the same season. Which means either Jones or Klefbom is probably gone by the expansion draft at the latest.

Nurse-Bear
Jones-Bouchard
Broberg-Larsson

Not sure where Samorukov fits in (or Lennstrom or any other prospects).

Fair points. I'm not sure Barrie is one and done if he knocks it out of the park this season. There's been what sounds as mutual interest for a while and despite this being a one-year pad the stats contract, I won't be surprised if this becomes a long(er)-term contract for Barrie in Edmonton.

The Oil I think have to go the protect four d-men route for the expansion draft. It is great to see the Oilers finally build a quality, deep pipeline on defense after creating the model of what not to do rebuild focusing on small finesse wingers/forwards for much of its cherry draft positioning over a decade and a half.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm a big Larsson fan and love that style of player but for whatever reason he has not been great in that role.

Now I agree with Bouchard being a rookie, and one not able to skate his way out of trouble either, I think it unlikely he could replace Larsson... but...

Bouchard's puck moving is pretty awesome. Ditto his offense. He couldnt replace a prime fully functioning Larsson, not even close, but the Larsson we have more often than not may well be replaceable without losing too much.

This would be Bouchard playing better defensively than credited to date and Larsson underwhelming a bit but it's not far fetched imo. I do think Bouchards overall game is being slept on by many.

I'm gonna go with Larsson being quite significantly undervalued by a good size portion of Oiler fandom. He's needed on an increasingly finesse team that whispers have suggested the Oil have been an easy to play against team. The shine of Larsson's high pedigree and potential has worn off but there's still a nasty, peak year proven NHL defender who plays the hard game required to win - most pronounced in the NHL playoffs.

I don't know the extent of his injuries and whether they are chronic or not, but, this year and on this team, I view Larsson a critical core member of a defense corp that is going to have to be better with the reality of losing its best and big minute leader. Bouchard's talents are very good but they are duplicate to veteran Barrie. His own zone play must improve and that just can't place him above a veteran defender first Larsson. They are very different players but I doubt it is a Larsson v Bouchard discussion being held by Oilers management.

Bring Bouchard along with patience and in situational play where he can succeed, thrive and gain confidence. Keep the heavy lifting to veteran guys like Larsson who make it unpleasant for opposition to put up numbers against a finesse orientated team.

 

[VainGretzky]

Oilers with their first Calder recipient

 

[Skar]

I'm gonna go with Larsson being quite significantly undervalued by a good size portion of Oiler fandom. He's needed on an increasingly finesse team that whispers have suggested the Oil have been an easy to play against team. The shine of Larsson's high pedigree and potential has worn off but there's still a nasty, peak year proven NHL defender who plays the hard game required to win - most pronounced in the NHL playoffs.

I don't know the extent of his injuries and whether they are chronic or not, but, this year and on this team, I view Larsson a critical core member of a defense corp that is going to have to be better with the reality of losing its best and big minute leader. Bouchard's talents are very good but they are duplicate to veteran Barrie. His own zone play must improve and that just can't place him above a veteran defender first Larsson. They are very different players but I doubt it is a Larsson v Bouchard discussion being held by Oilers management.

Bring Bouchard along with patience and in situational play where he can succeed, thrive and gain confidence. Keep the heavy lifting to veteran guys like Larsson who make it unpleasant for opposition to put up numbers against a finesse orientated team.

If we get the 2016-17 Larsson again, I completely agree. The Larsson we had for the majority of the last regular season + play-ins is a player you can easily replace.

 

[Fourier]

I still think people are understating how well Larsson played in the last half of last season. He was the Oilers best defenseman for the last 20 games.

 

[Anarchism]

Oilers with their first Calder recipient

Dont think he plays enough....he will likely get multiple cups of coffee though. He looks like he will be or has the potential to be much more rounded than Barrie but he has plenty of learning to do in that area. Hopefully being around Larsson (healthy rested?) and hopefully Klefbom (around team even he is not playing)...will help him learn alot of little things.
Hopefully Barrie is one and done and management doesnt consider bringing him back because Bouchard looks good enough for full time employment for 21/22.

 

[Mr Positive]

He likely competes with Jones for 2nd line LD

But this year is weird (again). We are supposedly having expanded rosters and a taxi squad. If we have a huge roster then Bouchard will be on it

 

[Broberg Speed]

If Barrie isn't looking for the home run deal he will get another contract from the Edmonton Oilers. They will play him (top 4 minutes and first unit power play) this season then they will pay him... within reason on a multi-year deal. A team can never have too many skilled right handed shooters.

Ethan Bear may very well become the sweetener to dump a high priced contract. Ducks in a row... maybe Bear has a team friendly handshake contract all worked out with the club or maybe this could be another player getting incredibly bad advice from his agent.

We are shedding bad contracts and more are coming of the books in the near future. Now let's not sign new bad contracts and that includes fan favorites like RNH and Bear. They cannot be permitted to break the payroll structure. Neither are game changers. RNH can live with an average of 6 million, or even less for a retirement contract, and Bear can take the bridge or bargain value deal that takes him to UFA or UFA +1.

RNH is going to play but Bear better look out he has very little bargaining power with Bouchard ready and heading into camp.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He likely competes with Jones for 2nd line LD

But this year is weird (again). We are supposedly having expanded rosters and a taxi squad. If we have a huge roster then Bouchard will be on it

I don't see that at all. Bouchard's put up good numbers in Swedish second division with time playing left defense. But the Oilers aren't going to drop a young, developing defenseman especially one whose biggest development need is defending into a situation of playing NHL competition on his off side. Assuming Bouchard makes the Oilers more realistic he drops into a third pairing role on RD and maybe rotate into 2 RD in favourable match ups such as less physical/more mobile teams where Larsson might drop down. Similarly, I can imagine a scenario on LD where Tippett moves Jones and Russell around based on competition and how they are playing.

This is going to be a tough year on a number of fronts - compressed schedule, quality of competition, covid considerations. I anticipate Holland and Tippett to carefully manage this team's young talent as their build a team that needs to take another step in its competitiveness especially after a humbling reality check against Chicago.

 

[LTIR]

If Barrie isn't looking for the home run deal he will get another contract from the Edmonton Oilers. They will play him (top 4 minutes and first unit power play) this season then they will pay him... within reason on a multi-year deal. A team can never have too many skilled right handed shooters.

Ethan Bear may very well become the sweetener to dump a high priced contract. Ducks in a row... maybe Bear has a team friendly handshake contract all worked out with the club or maybe this could be another player getting incredibly bad advice from his agent.

We are shedding bad contracts and more are coming of the books in the near future. Now let's not sign new bad contracts and that includes fan favorites like RNH and Bear. They cannot be permitted to break the payroll structure. Neither are game changers. RNH can live with an average of 6 million, or even less for a retirement contract, and Bear can take the bridge or bargain value deal that takes him to UFA or UFA +1.

RNH is going to play but Bear better look out he has very little bargaining power with Bouchard ready and heading into camp.

Or we could be greedy and keep all 4 RDs.
A team goes through around 10 Dmen every season.
There will be injuries and Bouch doesn't need to play 82 games.

 

[Zaddy]

The thing speaking in favor for Bouchard making the team as well is that he's actually played this season and should be in mid-season form pretty much. That's a big boon for him. And I think he's realistically NHL ready at this point. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's one of the best d-man in camp period. Also these things are fluid and a lot can change from season to season, a guy like Bear could take a pretty big step backwards this year too. We might see Nurse-Barrie, Russell-Bouchard as our top4 with Jones, Larsson and Bear battling it out for the 3rd pairing. Regardless, the competition should be pretty fierce.

 

[780il]

The thing speaking in favor for Bouchard making the team as well is that he's actually played this season and should be in mid-season form pretty much. That's a big boon for him. And I think he's realistically NHL ready at this point. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's one of the best d-man in camp period. Also these things are fluid and a lot can change from season to season, a guy like Bear could take a pretty big step backwards this year too. We might see Nurse-Barrie, Russell-Bouchard as our top4 with Jones, Larsson and Bear battling it out for the 3rd pairing. Regardless, the competition should be pretty fierce.

I think Bouchard may beat out Russel for a spot if the coaches are comfortable playing him on the left. Pairings would go as follows:

Nurse - Bear
Jones - Barrie
Bouchard - Larsson

 

[Fourier]

We see lefties playing on the right side all along. Could a guy like Larsson not play on the left? That is, if Bouchard makes the team.

 

[Zaddy]

I think Bouchard may beat out Russel for a spot if the coaches are comfortable playing him on the left. Pairings would go as follows:

Nurse - Bear
Jones - Barrie
Bouchard - Larsson

Possible, but I'd think that Tippett wants some more experience in the lineup and as such I believe Nurse, Barrie and Russell are nailed on. Of course you could make the same argument for Larsson but he has really struggled the past couple of years so I think it depends more on how he performs in camp, if he's back in form or not. If he plays as well as he can then it's between Bear, Jones and Bouchard for the remaining two spots.

But yeah there are many different ways this could shake out. I would assume that Nurse-Bear will be the de facto top pairing to start off camp and Barrie will roll with Russell. So that might mean that Jones and Bouchard fight for the spot next to Larsson, or if Larsson doesn't perform then Jones-Bouchard will be our bottom-pairing, or you move around the pairings so that every young guy plays with a vet.

I have no idea what's going to happen, just speculating at this point. No one saw Bear coming in and playing the way he did last year, most of us thought Jones would be that guy. So what happens this year? Who will perform out of Bear, Jones and Bouchard? How will Larsson look? None of us got a clue, but I think Bouchard has a great shot at making this team given the circumstances.

 

[Anarchism]

The thing speaking in favor for Bouchard making the team as well is that he's actually played this season and should be in mid-season form pretty much. That's a big boon for him. And I think he's realistically NHL ready at this point. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's one of the best d-man in camp period. Also these things are fluid and a lot can change from season to season, a guy like Bear could take a pretty big step backwards this year too. We might see Nurse-Barrie, Russell-Bouchard as our top4 with Jones, Larsson and Bear battling it out for the 3rd pairing. Regardless, the competition should be pretty fierce.

Really?
Usually agree with alot of what you say but Nurse Barrie as our top pair?
Two brain cramps together ....in the d zone....Tippett will turn himself inside out on the bench lol!
The last thing Nurse needs is undependable partner going back. Lets hope the steadiness of Bear continues and that he take a step or two offensively just as he did in junior.

 

[FlameChampion]

He'll prob be on the roster sooner than later because unfortunately Larsson has a hard time staying healthy. I think Bouchard is NHL ready.

 

[GOilers88]

If Barrie isn't looking for the home run deal he will get another contract from the Edmonton Oilers. They will play him (top 4 minutes and first unit power play) this season then they will pay him... within reason on a multi-year deal. A team can never have too many skilled right handed shooters.

Ethan Bear may very well become the sweetener to dump a high priced contract. Ducks in a row... maybe Bear has a team friendly handshake contract all worked out with the club or maybe this could be another player getting incredibly bad advice from his agent.

We are shedding bad contracts and more are coming of the books in the near future. Now let's not sign new bad contracts and that includes fan favorites like RNH and Bear. They cannot be permitted to break the payroll structure. Neither are game changers. RNH can live with an average of 6 million, or even less for a retirement contract, and Bear can take the bridge or bargain value deal that takes him to UFA or UFA +1.

RNH is going to play but Bear better look out he has very little bargaining power with Bouchard ready and heading into camp.

Bear and RNH are two home grown, NHL talents. I agree Bear still has much to prove but I don't see why we would want to move either of these guys to pay someone else with the money they're playing their way into. Dumping either guy to get rid of a bad contract because theyre earning raises doesn't seem like a wise or loyal decision.

Just my opinion.

 

[Zaddy]

Really?
Usually agree with alot of what you say but Nurse Barrie as our top pair?
Two brain cramps together ....in the d zone....Tippett will turn himself inside out on the bench lol!
The last thing Nurse needs is undependable partner going back. Lets hope the steadiness of Bear continues and that he take a step or two offensively just as he did in junior.

I was speculating, Nurse-Barrie wouldn't be my first choice no.

 

[McJadeddog]

I still think people are understating how well Larsson played in the last half of last season. He was the Oilers best defenseman for the last 20 games.

Agreed. He played fantastic, best since his 2017-18 season, in the last part of the year. I am one of those guys stating that Larsson might not be back next season, but it is really more around his injuries. If he is healthy, I want him back 100%.

 

[bucks_oil]

I'm gonna go with Larsson being quite significantly undervalued by a good size portion of Oiler fandom. He's needed on an increasingly finesse team that whispers have suggested the Oil have been an easy to play against team. The shine of Larsson's high pedigree and potential has worn off but there's still a nasty, peak year proven NHL defender who plays the hard game required to win - most pronounced in the NHL playoffs.

I don't know the extent of his injuries and whether they are chronic or not, but, this year and on this team, I view Larsson a critical core member of a defense corp that is going to have to be better with the reality of losing its best and big minute leader. Bouchard's talents are very good but they are duplicate to veteran Barrie. His own zone play must improve and that just can't place him above a veteran defender first Larsson. They are very different players but I doubt it is a Larsson v Bouchard discussion being held by Oilers management.

Bring Bouchard along with patience and in situational play where he can succeed, thrive and gain confidence. Keep the heavy lifting to veteran guys like Larsson who make it unpleasant for opposition to put up numbers against a finesse orientated team.

So very well said.

I actually think Larsson has been significantly underrated the last couple of years. It's clear he's been playing a bit below his previous standard, but he's still the defender I'd trust on the ice to close out a one goal game. I actually think that Larsson is often the 'single voice' that's playing the system defensively.

When he's playing well, its due to him directing traffic and others listening to him... the play becomes a non-event and nobody notices. When he's "playing poorly" its because people see him get turnstiled while playing a two on one, or a three on two, that never would have happened if our guys were actually legitimately on the back check, rather than coasting back and hoping for him to make a miracle play so they can go get scorin' again.

Exceptional positional defensemen like him NEED a strong back check so that they can step up and take a mild risk to dispossess the puck before it's too late and the play has developed. When you do that and the forward you think is going to be there to pick up the loose puck is a step behind or gets beat by an opponent who skated harder? .... well now you are miles out of position, with the original puck carrier pinned against the boards but your goalie on his own to face a 2-on-0 or a 2-1. To the casual observer Larsson made a bad, over-aggressive play... but the coach knows that's exactly what was needed and the back-checker let him down by not supporting the play.

 

[Aerchon]

So very well said.

I actually think Larsson has been significantly underrated the last couple of years. It's clear he's been playing a bit below his previous standard, but he's still the defender I'd trust on the ice to close out a one goal game. I actually think that Larsson is often the 'single voice' that's playing the system defensively.

When he's playing well, its due to him directing traffic and others listening to him... the play becomes a non-event and nobody notices. When he's "playing poorly" its because people see him get turnstiled while playing a two on one, or a three on two, that never would have happened if our guys were actually legitimately on the back check, rather than coasting back and hoping for him to make a miracle play so they can go get scorin' again.

Exceptional positional defensemen like him NEED a strong back check so that they can step up and take a mild risk to dispossess the puck before it's too late and the play has developed. When you do that and the forward you think is going to be there to pick up the loose puck is a step behind or gets beat by an opponent who skated harder? .... well now you are miles out of position, with the original puck carrier pinned against the boards but your goalie on his own to face a 2-on-0 or a 2-1. To the casual observer Larsson made a bad, over-aggressive play... but the coach knows that's exactly what was needed and the back-checker let him down by not supporting the play.

He hasn't been exceptional positionally. Nor as physical and punishing as when he first arrived. His skating is good at best in a league that can turn style him. He provides little in transition/offense.

Slightly negative narrative but when you don't have many offensive tools and you are making positional and judgment errors even a bit more than is healthy for the team... it gets noticed. It's the curse of the stay at home defenseman that they have to play damn near perfect and incredibly physical every shift of every game and he has not done that since his first year with us.

He has not played bad... overall, but just not as well as you would hope... or as well as the team needs him.

I hope it was just a nagging injury that is finally dealt with. I'm looking forward to a healthy beastly Larsson.