Player Discussion Evan Bouchard: One for the Money, Two for the Bouch

[Aerchon]

Oh for sure.

I think the defence at next year's TC will still be similar to the one we see this winter, only with Bouchard subbing in for Barrie. Personally I think they'll bring back Larsson on a 2 year deal, but at minimum I would expect a 1 year UFA vet (think of the equivalent of Hamonic or Stone from this year's UFA class) to bridge in Samorukov and Broberg.

My template for the next year and a half on the defence:

Nurse-Barrie(Bouchard)
Jones/Klefbom-Larsson
Lagesson-Bear

I admit I'm still high on Lagesson, and have him beating out Russell for the #6 job this year. I see him settling in as a Gunnarsson-like defenceman. Plus you'll also have Samorukov knocking at the door, and Broberg not far behind.

2016 Adam Larsson was a force for us. Pre 2016 a force for NJD. He was just so dominant breaking up plays and punishing the opposition. We have not had a defender do that since 2016.

I don't know if it's mental or physical but he has not really been even close to that good since. At least with any consistency. I suspect he is far closer to early retirement like Klefbom, due to his back issues, than he is returning to 2016 form.

However! I dream of at least seeing one more great year from Larsson and what better year than a contract year. Ignoring future consequences I just want to see the player that for one year made every pundit on the planet call the trade to get him a clear win for the Oilers.

In terms of future, especially if he can regain some of his old form, I think he would be a great mentor for all our young defensemen. Even Nurse should be taking note of how much a physical defender can change a game/team for the better. I'd much rather have had Larsson extended than Russell. Russell style is unique to a small specialized defender where Larsson can just punish. Even Bouchard can likely learn more from Larsson than Russell since he is 6' 2 or 3" and will likely play above 200lbs. Not to mention Larsson, especially on his natural right side, is just better than him for the team to win.

I doubt he stays tho. Sub 2016 play or not he is still valuable to a team and will likely get more money/term elsewhere.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

2016 Adam Larsson was a force for us. Pre 2016 a force for NJD. He was just so dominant breaking up plays and punishing the opposition. We have not had a defender do that since 2016.

I don't know if it's mental or physical but he has not really been even close to that good since. At least with any consistency. I suspect he is far closer to early retirement like Klefbom, due to his back issues, than he is returning to 2016 form.

However! I dream of at least seeing one more great year from Larsson and what better year than a contract year. Ignoring future consequences I just want to see the player that for one year made every pundit on the planet call the trade to get him a clear win for the Oilers.

In terms of future, especially if he can regain some of his old form, I think he would be a great mentor for all our young defensemen. Even Nurse should be taking note of how much a physical defender can change a game/team for the better. I'd much rather have had Larsson extended than Russell. Russell style is unique to a small specialized defender where Larsson can just punish. Even Bouchard can likely learn more from Larsson than Russell since he is 6' 2 or 3" and will likely play above 200lbs. Not to mention Larsson, especially on his natural right side, is just better than him for the team to win.

I doubt he stays tho. Sub 2016 play or not he is still valuable to a team and will likely get more money/term elsewhere.

Yeah, Larsson has a skillset that's extremely hard to find and many fans will never appreciate.

I understand why professional teams can't be transparent in terms of disclosure, but it'd be interesting to know exactly what his medical problems are.

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

This was posted on reddit yesterday. It's the summary of a Swedish article on Bouchard.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This was posted on reddit yesterday. It's the summary of a Swedish article on Bouchard.

That's a great read.

 

[Aerchon]

This was posted on reddit yesterday. It's the summary of a Swedish article on Bouchard.

Awesome to hear. True ringing endorsement. Much like his junior and ahl career before this he is a class above the rest relatively speaking. Hope it translates to the nhl as well.

Barrie may have to keep his head up Bouchard might be able to push him down by the end of the season.

 

[LTIR]

It's too bad Tippett never gave Bouchard PP ice time in preseason.
He could be NHL regular by now.

 

[oobga]

 

[GOilers88]

It's too bad Tippett never gave Bouchard PP ice time in preseason.
He could be NHL regular by now.

If its at the expense of him rounding out his overall game, I think it's a fair trade. I'm a big fan of the slow burn approach.

 

[Beerfish]

Well seeing that Bear got little pp time it's always a worry with some of these old school coaches. Bouchard was a great pick in a huge position of need. Too little offense from the back end has really hurt this team. Add a true great point man or two on the pp and everything will be better.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Well seeing that Bear got little pp time it's always a worry with some of these old school coaches. Bouchard was a great pick in a huge position of need. Too little offense from the back end has really hurt this team. Add a true great point man or two on the pp and everything will be better.

Our PP wont get better than last year.

 

[LTIR]

Our PP wont get better than last year.

It could with Barrie on point over Klefbom/Nurse.
Opens up one time option and a better puck mover.

 

[bucks_oil]

It could with Barrie on point over Klefbom/Nurse.
Opens up one time option and a better puck mover.

It is statistically hard to imagine it being better, but I agree. It's entirely possible that it improves further. And why would a powerplay with McD and Drai (and Nuge for that matter) not have a chance at being the best power-play of all time? Amazing to think it was the 4th best of all time and will have even stronger personnel this year.

 

[GOilers88]

2016 Adam Larsson was a force for us. Pre 2016 a force for NJD. He was just so dominant breaking up plays and punishing the opposition. We have not had a defender do that since 2016.

I don't know if it's mental or physical but he has not really been even close to that good since. At least with any consistency. I suspect he is far closer to early retirement like Klefbom, due to his back issues, than he is returning to 2016 form.

However! I dream of at least seeing one more great year from Larsson and what better year than a contract year. Ignoring future consequences I just want to see the player that for one year made every pundit on the planet call the trade to get him a clear win for the Oilers.

In terms of future, especially if he can regain some of his old form, I think he would be a great mentor for all our young defensemen. Even Nurse should be taking note of how much a physical defender can change a game/team for the better. I'd much rather have had Larsson extended than Russell. Russell style is unique to a small specialized defender where Larsson can just punish. Even Bouchard can likely learn more from Larsson than Russell since he is 6' 2 or 3" and will likely play above 200lbs. Not to mention Larsson, especially on his natural right side, is just better than him for the team to win.

I doubt he stays tho. Sub 2016 play or not he is still valuable to a team and will likely get more money/term elsewhere.

I'm a fan of Larsson but I don't think the trade was or ever will be a win for the Oilers.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Our PP wont get better than last year.

I also don't think the PP will get better than last year. That said having Barrie on it probably gives it a very good chance of having less of a drop off from last year. Like I still think we will easily have a top 3 pp in the league, but I think Barrie gives us a very solid chance of holding onto that top spot. Teams were probably preparing for our normal pp but switching it with Barrie definitely changes things for opponents pks

 

[Stoneman89]

It's too bad Tippett never gave Bouchard PP ice time in preseason.
He could be NHL regular by now.

Not.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It is statistically hard to imagine it being better, but I agree. It's entirely possible that it improves further. And why would a powerplay with McD and Drai (and Nuge for that matter) not have a chance at being the best power-play of all time? Amazing to think it was the 4th best of all time and will have even stronger personnel this year.

The only way it gets better from a "producing more goals" standpoint is if it gets more opportunities, which only happens if our 5x5 play improves.

 

[Aerchon]

I'm a fan of Larsson but I don't think the trade was or ever will be a win for the Oilers.

I think the water is so muddy on that it's not worth going over much but it was universally accepted as a great deal for the Oilers for that one glorious year. Every pundit with a platform was praising it post our successful 2016 season. Was also an abysmal year for Hall as well, injured and terrible for NJD that year.

Things change tho. Post Hall Hart year it was the opposite.

We of course overpaid, but hypothetically speaking, it's hard to imagine having Hall over Larsson would have guaranteed made our team any better.

If we do the would a could a should a thing trading someone for a defenseman better than Larsson was imo something that needed to happen. Years of Hall looking great with the team/defense around him being junk was not taking us anywhere.

 

[Paralyzer008]

 

[Soundwave]

I think the water is so muddy on that it's not worth going over much but it was universally accepted as a great deal for the Oilers for that one glorious year. Every pundit with a platform was praising it post our successful 2016 season. Was also an abysmal year for Hall as well, injured and terrible for NJD that year.

Things change tho. Post Hall Hart year it was the opposite.

We of course overpaid, but hypothetically speaking, it's hard to imagine having Hall over Larsson would have guaranteed made our team any better.

If we do the would a could a should a thing trading someone for a defenseman better than Larsson was imo something that needed to happen. Years of Hall looking great with the team/defense around him being junk was not taking us anywhere.

Losing trades badly never needs to happen.

No great team is built that way, that line of thinking is just a farce. Sometimes a team is so good they can overcome the GM doing something stupid like that, but that's about it.

We could have acquired a Larsson tier d-man 100 different ways. Jake Muzzin is about as good as Larsson, maybe better, what was the price to acquire him.

 

[Aerchon]

Losing trades badly never needs to happen.

No great team is built that way, that line of thinking is just a farce. Sometimes a team is so good they can overcome the GM doing something stupid like that, but that's about it.

We could have acquired a Larsson tier d-man 100 different ways. Jake Muzzin is about as good as Larsson, maybe better, what was the price to acquire him.

That's some seriously hindsight thinking.

Larsson was NJD best defenseman. On an incredibly sweet deal. Just entering his prime.

It's easy to say now after years of mediocre performances from Larsson we coulda woulda shoulda just picked up a Larsson level defender like Muzzin. Not to mention the defenseman market back then even Muzzin was not get traded period and you either paid through the nose in UFA or got trash significantly worse than Larsson/Muzzin.

Was it Demers that many wanted from UFA that year? Can't say I followed him much but what little I've heard is he has struggled more than say Larsson and is slightly more expensive to boot.

I don't want to lose the trees in the forest.

Moving Hall for Larsson turned out bad. Started out very good for the Oilers despite the value being in NJD favor. Oilers won year 1 by a landslide. Lost year 2 by a landslide. The rest... who cares really, they both sucked relatively speaking. NJD are not upset they don't have Hall anymore I can guarantee that.

We all agree it was bad asset management but some here are still obsessing over losing Hall... When the truth is Hall is hardly a player that makes or breaks a team. I regret we didn't get more for him but Im not upset he isn't an Oiler anymore and he was my favorite Oiler during his time here.

 

[Soundwave]

That's some seriously hindsight thinking.

Larsson was NJD best defenseman. On an incredibly sweet deal. Just entering his prime.

It's easy to say now after years of mediocre performances from Larsson we coulda woulda shoulda just picked up a Larsson level defender like Muzzin. Not to mention the defenseman market back then even Muzzin was not get traded period and you either paid through the nose in UFA or got trash significantly worse than Larsson/Muzzin.

Was it Demers that many wanted from UFA that year? Can't say I followed him much but what little I've heard is he has struggled more than say Larsson and is slightly more expensive to boot.

I don't want to lose the trees in the forest.

Moving Hall for Larsson turned out bad. Started out very good for the Oilers despite the value being in NJD favor. Oilers won year 1 by a landslide. Lost year 2 by a landslide. The rest... who cares really, they both sucked relatively speaking. NJD are not upset they don't have Hall anymore I can guarantee that.

We all agree it was bad asset management but some here are still obsessing over losing Hall... When the truth is Hall is hardly a player that makes or breaks a team. I regret we didn't get more for him but Im not upset he isn't an Oiler anymore and he was my favorite Oiler during his time here.

Larsson tier defenders are a dime a dozen to get if you have a smart GM running the team.

And Larsson wasn't NJ's best d-man, that would be Greene.

That trade and "losing it" eventually probably cost us 2 years out of the playoffs because we needed to be getting far more back and the trade was really contingent on f***ing Lucic being a near All-Star level player.

What's done is done, we paid dearly for that mistake, it basically destroyed any chance for us to have an early window of success like Pittsburgh and Chicago had, and the person who made those calls went from being highly thought of to now not being able to get a job as a GM.

 

[bucks_oil]

That's some seriously hindsight thinking.

Larsson was NJD best defenseman. On an incredibly sweet deal. Just entering his prime.

It's easy to say now after years of mediocre performances from Larsson we coulda woulda shoulda just picked up a Larsson level defender like Muzzin. Not to mention the defenseman market back then even Muzzin was not get traded period and you either paid through the nose in UFA or got trash significantly worse than Larsson/Muzzin.

Was it Demers that many wanted from UFA that year? Can't say I followed him much but what little I've heard is he has struggled more than say Larsson and is slightly more expensive to boot.

I don't want to lose the trees in the forest.

Moving Hall for Larsson turned out bad. Started out very good for the Oilers despite the value being in NJD favor. Oilers won year 1 by a landslide. Lost year 2 by a landslide. The rest... who cares really, they both sucked relatively speaking. NJD are not upset they don't have Hall anymore I can guarantee that.

We all agree it was bad asset management but some here are still obsessing over losing Hall... When the truth is Hall is hardly a player that makes or breaks a team. I regret we didn't get more for him but Im not upset he isn't an Oiler anymore and he was my favorite Oiler during his time here.

Yes agree... some revisionist history for sure. Understandable given how it turned out.

Back at the time, most anti-trade guys thought: Larsson + 1st = Hall
Most pro-trade thought: Larsson + 2nd = Hall
And the pro-trade folks thought: Larsson still had #1, 40 point upside, and that Chia was always going to be taken advantage of given how poorly the team had performed for years and how obvious it was that we needed D.

In the end, it was a terrible trade but it was an understandably bad trade at the time. But he took a swing, something Tambo wouldn't do, which is why we ended up so obviously desperate in the first place.

 

[Aceboogie]

I think the water is so muddy on that it's not worth going over much but it was universally accepted as a great deal for the Oilers for that one glorious year. Every pundit with a platform was praising it post our successful 2016 season. Was also an abysmal year for Hall as well, injured and terrible for NJD that year.

Things change tho. Post Hall Hart year it was the opposite.

We of course overpaid, but hypothetically speaking, it's hard to imagine having Hall over Larsson would have guaranteed made our team any better.

If we do the would a could a should a thing trading someone for a defenseman better than Larsson was imo something that needed to happen. Years of Hall looking great with the team/defense around him being junk was not taking us anywhere.

Can mods get these type of posts out of the prospect threads. I had an entire response to this but deleted it to avoid the thread getting completely derailed. But allowing the initial post to remain as is just allows for the chance of derailment to continue. Why not just delete all together so no chance arises .

 

[Aerchon]

Larsson tier defenders are a dime a dozen to get if you have a smart GM running the team.

And Larsson wasn't NJ's best d-man, that would be Greene.

That trade and "losing it" eventually probably cost us 2 years out of the playoffs because we needed to be getting far more back and the trade was really contingent on f***ing Lucic being a near All-Star level player.

What's done is done, we paid dearly for that mistake, it basically destroyed any chance for us to have an early window of success like Pittsburgh and Chicago had, and the person who made those calls went from being highly thought of to now not being able to get a job as a GM.

Just saying Greene was NJD best defenseman shows you didn't follow Larsson prior to his trade. He was largely considered to have passed Greene on the depth chart the whole previous year. Also, if I remember correctly, Greene had significant troubles without Larsson there afterwards.

We all agree it sucked in hindsight but I really struggle to understand how you think having Hall over Larsson would have meant more playoff appearances. That to me is extremely unlikely. History suggests otherwise. We didn't sniff a playoff appearance until after Hall was gone and our goal scoring and goals against have improved dramatically without him. It's fun to imagine what a Hart Hall and McDrai could accomplish but the facts are we did significantly better without Hall than with. Look to SJS for examples of teams that load up on one dimensional players hoping to power through purely on said offense. Burns and Karlsson "should" make that team incredible but imo not surprising to see them struggle so badly... Like every single team Hall has been part of date... Best of luck to Buffalo but I'm not like ing their chances Hall will help them out of their time of darkness.

Hall is a highly entertaining wrecking ball that while on his game is awesome to watch and sometimes... not very often... a positive contributer to his teams success. Barring one Hart year and maybe one or two more... I believe Hall hurts his team every but as much as helps. He is pretty much the definition of irresponsible one dimensional winger.

@Aceboogie

Didn't even check which thread I was in. I was just responding to someone that Necro replied to an older post of mine. Delete or move is fine by me.

 

[Soundwave]

Just saying Greene was NJD best defenseman shows you didn't follow Larsson prior to his trade. He was largely considered to have passed Greene on the depth chart the whole previous year. Also, if I remember correctly, Greene had significant troubles without Larsson there afterwards.

We all agree it sucked in hindsight but I really struggle to understand how you think having Hall over Larsson would have meant more playoff appearances. That to me is extremely unlikely. History suggests otherwise. We didn't sniff a playoff appearance until after Hall was gone and our goal scoring and goals against have improved dramatically without him. It's fun to imagine what a Hart Hall and McDrai could accomplish but the facts are we did significantly better without Hall than with. Look to SJS for examples of teams that load up on one dimensional players hoping to power through purely on said offense. Burns and Karlsson "should" make that team incredible but imo not surprising to see them struggle so badly... Like every single team Hall has been part of date... Best of luck to Buffalo but I'm not like ing their chances Hall will help them out of their time of darkness.

Hall is a highly entertaining wrecking ball that while on his game is awesome to watch and sometimes... not very often... a positive contributer to his teams success. Barring one Hart year and maybe one or two more... I believe Hall hurts his team every but as much as helps. He is pretty much the definition of irresponsible one dimensional winger.

@Aceboogie

Didn't even check which thread I was in. I was just responding to someone that Necro replied to an older post of mine. Delete or move is fine by me.

It boils down to asset management.

The Oilers couldn't afford to blow that trade, they needed a legit top level D back for Hall or they needed to hold pat and at least have a super powered top 6 that teams would've had massive headaches dealing with for 45/60 minutes a night.

The Oilers GM screwed the Oilers on both ends ... we ended up with a team that was still shit defensively but also had shit offensive depth and it's only now 5 freaking years into the McDavid era that we're beginning to recover and finally possibly, maybe enter the "making the playoffs" phase.

We paid a horrible, horrible price for the Lucic + Larsson gamble, but what's done is done. The person behind it will likely never again be able to work in the NHL as a GM which is an unbelievable fall from the level has at before.