GWT: Europa League - Group Stages

[Evilo]

VAR has better doing their job there because that Pool goal can't stand....
Travesty!

 

[hatterson]

By rule that's not a handball that disallows a goal. It's an objectively wrong call.

 

[Evilo]

Yes!
VAR useful for once!

By rule that's not a handball that disallows a goal. It's an objectively wrong call.

How so?

Great and deserved win for Toulouse, bottom feeders in L1.

 

[hatterson]

Yes!
VAR useful for once!


How so?

1.) It's, at best, debatable that it his the part of the arm that counts as a handball.
2.) An accidental handball in the buildup no longer disallows a goal.
3.) It was in a previous APP and thus is irrelevant. The header in the box counts as a new APP.

 

[Evilo]

1.) It's, at best, debatable that it his the part of the arm that counts as a handball.
2.) An accidental handball in the buildup no longer disallows a goal.
3.) It was in a previous APP and thus is irrelevant. The header in the box counts as a new APP.

Haha no it's a clear handball that changed the buildup of the play.
Foul play in the building of a goal disallows it. We've had about a hundred cases this year only across different leagues.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

That is never handball, they are bending the rules at every opportunities. That is so funny.

 

[Evilo]

That is never handball, they are bending the rules at every opportunities. That is so funny.

It's a crystal clear handball

 

[Savant]

Certainly did not deserve to win but no idea what that was at the end there

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It's a crystal clear handball

https://x.com/TransferSector/status/1722701863902982420?s=20

Tell me how this impact the rest of the action? they might as well review every challenge 2 minutes before every goals.

That is the definition on finding anything to deny a goal.

I would love to see how you would interpret that if France scored a goal like that.

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

Interesting that LFC fans say that type of thing is not a handball. Moussa Sissoko says hi.

 

[Evilo]

https://x.com/TransferSector/status/1722701863902982420?s=20

Tell me how this impact the rest of the action? they might as well review every challenge 2 minutes before every goals.

That is the definition on finding anything to deny a goal.

I would love to see how you would interpret that if France scored a goal like that.

https://x.com/TransferSector/status/1722701863902982420?s=20

How it impacts?
Well duh, he controlled the ball with his hand and put it forward, which enabled him to pass quickly rather than retrieve the ball behind him. It also prevented the Toulouse player to press MacAllister.
I mean Toulouse had two goals waved off and you see no complaints because both rulings were fair.

 

[hatterson]

Haha no it's a clear handball that changed the buildup of the play.
Foul play in the building of a goal disallows it. We've had about a hundred cases this year only across different leagues.

buildup of the play has a specific meaning in terms of VAR. It's not just everything that happened before the goal. VAR is only, by rule, allowed to go back to the last change of possession.

A completely clear, unpressured header that a defender directed away from goal starts a new phase of play. The defender chose to head it instead of clearing it with his feet or similar, but the simple fact that it's a header doesn't mean it's not a new APP.

It's a crystal clear handball

MacAllister clearly did not "deliberately" touch the ball with his arm by moving it towards the ball and the position of his arm was clearly not in an unnatural position.

If MacAllister had scored directly, then that doesn't matter since if it either goes in off the arm directly or the players himself scores directly after it hitting his arm (regardless of circumstance), then the goal is disallowed, but the rule was changed a while back that an accidental handball in the buildup to the goal (even though this wasn't in the buildup as far as VAR is concerned) that a teammate scores, no longer disallows the goal.

 

[Evilo]

buildup of the play has a specific meaning in terms of VAR. It's not just everything that happened before the goal. VAR is only, by rule, allowed to go back to the last change of possession.

A completely clear, unpressured header that a defender directed away from goal starts a new phase of play. The defender chose to head it instead of clearing it with his feet or similar, but the simple fact that it's a header doesn't mean it's not a new APP.


MacAllister clearly did not "deliberately" touch the ball with his arm by moving it towards the ball and the position of his arm was clearly not in an unnatural position.

If MacAllister had scored directly, then that doesn't matter since if it either goes in off the arm directly or the players himself scores directly after it hitting his arm (regardless of circumstance), then the goal is disallowed, but the rule was changed a while back that an accidental handball in the buildup to the goal (even though this wasn't in the buildup as far as VAR is concerned) that a teammate scores, no longer disallows the goal.

I lol again because you had the same kind of crap with the Newcastle PSG game and yet a few days later turned it completely around when it fit your agenda (in EPL action IIRC).

Deliberate has nothing to do with a handball. Hasn't for years.
A handball will be called if it "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger."

 

[JeffreyLFC]

buildup of the play has a specific meaning in terms of VAR. It's not just everything that happened before the goal. VAR is only, by rule, allowed to go back to the last change of possession.

A completely clear, unpressured header that a defender directed away from goal starts a new phase of play. The defender chose to head it instead of clearing it with his feet or similar, but the simple fact that it's a header doesn't mean it's not a new APP.


MacAllister clearly did not "deliberately" touch the ball with his arm by moving it towards the ball and the position of his arm was clearly not in an unnatural position.

If MacAllister had scored directly, then that doesn't matter since if it either goes in off the arm directly or the players himself scores directly after it hitting his arm (regardless of circumstance), then the goal is disallowed, but the rule was changed a while back that an accidental handball in the buildup to the goal (even though this wasn't in the buildup as far as VAR is concerned) that a teammate scores, no longer disallows the goal.

That's also how I interpreted the rules and the changes but they are bending the rule so much that I do not know what is handball anymore and if handball rules are different from UEFA to EPL. Are they?

It's a huge mess to understand what is considered good or not anymore.

Interesting that LFC fans say that type of thing is not a handball. Moussa Sissoko says hi.

The rules changed since then but fair, call every handball with VAR no matter when it happened then but ion that specific handball you are referring to they also stopped the play so it was not a goal in the build up like it is there.

 

[Evilo]

And weirdly enough I don't remember any complaint when in the first leg, Nunez assisted Liverpool's 3rd goal with his elbow.

Did the refs "bend the rules" back then also?

 

[hatterson]

I lol again because you had the same kind of crap with the Newcastle PSG game and yet a few days later turned it completely around when it fit your agenda.

Deliberate has nothing to do with a handball. Hasn't for years.
A handball will be called if it "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger."

I'm not really sure what Newcastle PSG thing you think I'm bending. Feel free to explain that and I'll answer in detail.

Regarding handball, it's convenient you left off the second part of that rule. "and when that position is not the result of their body moving fairly as part of play"

1.) His arm is by is side so obviously that didn't make his body unnaturally bigger.
2.) His arm position is very clearly a natural result of his body position because where else is your arm supposed to be.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

And weirdly enough I don't remember any complaint when in the first leg, Nunez assisted Liverpool's 3rd goal with his elbow.

Did the refs "bend the rules" back then also?

You could find in most goals situation to deny a goal, what is the limit?

 

[hatterson]

I also don't recall and may not have ever seen the goal Nunez supposedly assisted with his elbow, so I can't comment on that one. Feel free to post a video of it although again I'll note that the simple fact that it hit his elbow does not disallow the goal any more.

 

[Evilo]

I'm not really sure what Newcastle PSG thing you think I'm bending. Feel free to explain that and I'll answer in detail.

Regarding handball, it's convenient you left off the second part of that rule. "and when that position is not the result of their body moving fairly as part of play"

1.) His arm is by is side so obviously that didn't make his body unnaturally bigger.
2.) His arm position is very clearly a natural result of his body position because where else is your arm supposed to be.

I didn't leave anything out.
The complete rule is :

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

There was no reason for MacAllister to handball it there with his arm like this.
His arm is NOT in a natural position at all since he had it horizontal. I don't know if you walk in the streets with your arms at horizontal but that's got to be uncomfortable for the people crossing your path.

You could find in most goals situation to deny a goal, what is the limit?

Not start a play with a handball that prevents a pressing?

 

[hatterson]

lol "horizontal"

You should get your eyes checked.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I didn't leave anything out.
The complete rule is :

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

There was no reason for MacAllister to handball it there with his arm like this.
His arm is NOT in a natural position at all since he had it horizontal. I don't know if you walk in the streets with your arms at horizontal but that's got to be uncomfortable for the people crossing your path.


Not start a play with a handball that prevents a pressing?

Well, the game is over, the result is done, I am fine with the decision but let's be totally honest, do you know with certainty what is a handball or not anymore? I know, I don't. I get confused more every week. I will not be surprised to see a goal awarded for the same exact thing.

 

[Evilo]

I also don't recall and may not have ever seen the goal Nunez supposedly assisted with his elbow, so I can't comment on that one. Feel free to post a video of it although again I'll note that the simple fact that it hit his elbow does not disallow the goal any more.

The ball went from Nunez' elbow straight to the goal scorer (don't remember whom). I don't think I can find the video on Twitter from two weeks ago.

Well, the game is over, the result is done, I am fine with the decision but let's be totally honest, do you know with certainty what is a handball or not anymore? I know, I don't. I get confused more every week. I will not be surprised to see a goal awarded for the same exact thing.

Oh I agree the handball rule is messed up and I prefered when it had the intention part in it (which certainly resulted in many interpretations).
But I remember people here saying Kimpembe's handball was rightfully called against PSG. Guy was jumping in the air, turning his back to the ball. It was called an intentional handball.
INTENTIONAL.

lol "horizontal"

You should get your eyes checked.

Excuse me???? Go and take a look again.
You call that vertical????

 

[hatterson]

Well, the game is over, the result is done, I am fine with the decision but let's be totally honest, do you know with certainty what is a handball or not anymore? I know, I don't.

Right now UEFA handball is effectively if it hits your arm at all it's a handball. We saw it here. We saw it in the CL last night with the pen that Manchester United were awarded. The UEFA assumption is that players will play with their arms stapled behind their backs at all times and even then better hope that the ball doesn't deflect off someone behind them and hit their arms then.

The ball went from Nunez' elbow straight to the goal scorer (don't remember whom). I don't think I can find the video on Twitter from two weeks ago.

Which, again, doesn't matter at all if Nunez himself didn't score. Unless it was deemed a handball in and of itself (arm was away from the body, etc.) it doesn't matter that the Nunez got an assist or if it was passed 45 times between his touch and the goal.

 

[Evilo]

Which, again, doesn't matter at all if Nunez himself didn't score. Unless it was deemed a handball in and of itself (arm was away from the body, etc.) it doesn't matter that the Nunez got an assist or if it was passed 45 times between his touch and the goal.

You're trying to say with a straight face that you can hand the ball straight to a teammate for a goal.
That's nice.

Nunez's handball was him protecting from the clearance. It wasn't a natural position at all BTW. It's a handball in midfield, it's a handball in defense, it's a handball everywhere.

 

[Savant]

UEFA Football Board urges more clarity on handball rule | Inside UEFA

UEFA Football Board expressed satisfaction with the level of refereeing in the UEFA club competitions and suggested that the same unified approach should also be applied across Europe.

www.uefa.com

“no handball offence should be called on a player if the ball is previously deflected from his own body and, in particular, when the ball does not go towards the goal.”

From UEFA themselves. I dunno.

I can see it either way I guess? My understanding was it was incidental and didn’t primarily lead to a goal, (phase of play like hatterson is saying) but I don’t know and it’s not like they deserved any points so I’m not going to spend much time here