Management Eugene Melnyk - Lawsuits, rants and more... Part Deux

[DueDiligence]

Probably not helping attract any UFA’s. Let’s thank Melnyk for ruining the lebreton plan

This is a typical example of a media outlet dumping on a small market team. The CTC is certainly not #32 on this list but it's in Ottawa so why not put it last!

 

[BankStreetParade]

Public money to fund an arena for Melnyk who is putting no money into the team? Yeah that’s a big no.

This issue predates the team's financial hardships. It also correlates to the desire of Melnyk to build an MLS stadium and a large casino near the stadium. These are things we've been talking about for 10 years now. But sure, the finger pointing has really served citizens of Ottawa and fans of the Senators really well so far. Let's keep going round and round in circles so we can arrive back to the principle point which is that the vast majority of NHL arenas are built with substantial public funding. The city's job is to negotiate the best deal for themselves possible like other municipalities have done.

 

[Rysto]

The city's job is to negotiate the best deal for themselves possible like other municipalities have done.

The best deal that the city can negotiate is to not fund an arena. That's not a slam on Melnyk -- every single government that has funded a major sports facility has gotten completely hosed in the deal.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Maybe now that we're in the Covid era with fans unable to attend, pro sports leagues can shift their revenue to being entirely independent on everything BUT gate revenue. Adjust their disgustingly overpaid salaries to accommodate the new landscape.

No new arena needed, just a sheet of ice, problem solved.

 

[Stylizer1]

I made a post a little while back about public funding for some newly constructed arenas. Out of the 6 or 7 completed since 2010, only 1 (Vegas) didn't receive a majority of their funding mechanisms through the public. But not in Ottawa, no sir. City council are too busy trying to figure out how the LRT project came in 200% over budget, still functioning with issues and about 28 months late. Really excel at collecting and raising property taxes though. So there's that.

With the exception of Edmonton all of those arena's where in the US.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I quite liked the arena itself although it's been many years since I've been there. I certainly didn't see anything worth complaining about in comparison to the other arena's I've been to. Clearly location is the primary issue.

Ya maybe I’m just ignorant since the only other building I’ve been to is Montreal’s, but I never felt like the CTC was lacking at all. Location is absolutely garbage but the building is pretty good. No bad seats and the fan deck was a nice addition.

 

[JD1]

Ya maybe I’m just ignorant since the only other building I’ve been to is Montreal’s, but I never felt like the CTC was lacking at all. Location is absolutely garbage but the building is pretty good. No bad seats and the fan deck was a nice addition.

I prefer CTC to Montreal. So do 3 of my Hab loving relatives that come up here for games

 

[Tuna99]

This issue predates the team's financial hardships. It also correlates to the desire of Melnyk to build an MLS stadium and a large casino near the stadium. These are things we've been talking about for 10 years now. But sure, the finger pointing has really served citizens of Ottawa and fans of the Senators really well so far. Let's keep going round and round in circles so we can arrive back to the principle point which is that the vast majority of NHL arenas are built with substantial public funding. The city's job is to negotiate the best deal for themselves possible like other municipalities have done.

the city has a responsibility to the tax payers to not misuse their funds. Feds just announced a 345 billion deficit this year, and for Ottawa to give a man who has no friends in the political, business, media (Garrioche is paid to be his friend or just has bad taste in freinds) and the city And fans has overwhelmingly rejected, to give that man hundreds of millions to build an arena wouldn’t t only be political suicide but would be completely irresponsible to the point of recall and moving your family out of the city

 

[JD1]

the city has a responsibility to the tax payers to not misuse their funds. Feds just announced a 345 billion deficit this year, and for Ottawa to give a man who has no friends in the political, business, media (Garrioche is paid to be his friend or just has bad taste in freinds) and the city And fans has overwhelmingly rejected, to give that man hundreds of millions to build an arena wouldn’t t only be political suicide but would be completely irresponsible to the point of recall and moving your family out of the city

For 1/690th of the projected cost of covid we could have a new arena.

Maybe Melnyk could hire one of Trudeau's relatives or Morneau's kid

 

[supsens]

For 1/690th of the projected cost of covid we could have a new arena.

Maybe Melnyk could hire one of Trudeau's relatives or Morneau's kid

If the government builds it they could give out jobs instead of free cash

 

[Spartachat]

This issue predates the team's financial hardships. It also correlates to the desire of Melnyk to build an MLS stadium and a large casino near the stadium. These are things we've been talking about for 10 years now. But sure, the finger pointing has really served citizens of Ottawa and fans of the Senators really well so far. Let's keep going round and round in circles so we can arrive back to the principle point which is that the vast majority of NHL arenas are built with substantial public funding. The city's job is to negotiate the best deal for themselves possible like other municipalities have done.

I would rather the team move than have taxpayers help out Melnyk.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

100% certain that nobody is stupid enough to buy the Sens if there is not a plan in place for a partially funded, if not fully funded arena. This town has proven that the professional teams don’t make enough cash many times before.

 

[BankStreetParade]

With the exception of Edmonton all of those arena's where in the US.

So what?

the city has a responsibility to the tax payers to not misuse their funds. Feds just announced a 345 billion deficit this year, and for Ottawa to give a man who has no friends in the political, business, media (Garrioche is paid to be his friend or just has bad taste in freinds) and the city And fans has overwhelmingly rejected, to give that man hundreds of millions to build an arena wouldn’t t only be political suicide but would be completely irresponsible to the point of recall and moving your family out of the city

Again, it's their responsibility to negotiate the best deal for themselves. They can use levies, ticket surcharges and property taxes to recoup their investment. Not to mention, the fact that these types of projects are tourism drivers. They bring people in from outside of the city and create residual benefits for many businesses spread across the site. Both proposals estimated millions of annual visitors to the LeBreton developments as well as 20,000+ new jobs. It's extremely short-sighted to just look at a dollar amount going to the construction of one building and say it's not worth it.

I would rather the team move than have taxpayers help out Melnyk.

Short-sighted. This is more beneficial to the city of Ottawa than Melnyk.

 

[Masked]

Again, it's their responsibility to negotiate the best deal for themselves. They can use levies, ticket surcharges and property taxes to recoup their investment. Not to mention, the fact that these types of projects are tourism drivers. They bring people in from outside of the city and create residual benefits for many businesses spread across the site. Both proposals estimated millions of annual visitors to the LeBreton developments as well as 20,000+ new jobs. It's extremely short-sighted to just look at a dollar amount going to the construction of one building and say it's not worth it.

Cities cannot use levies in Ontario. If an arena could be financed through ticket surcharges then the owner is able to do that on their own. Property taxes are set by the province based upon the tax assessment and the city has little to do with it. Those tax dollars are also used to support the infrastructure that the arena uses.

How many tourists and visitors do NHL arenas attract? Those millions of visitors you speak of mostly consist of Ottawa residents visiting LeBreton repeatedly through the year. Those are people who would normally spend their money elsewhere in Ottawa but diverting it somewhere else. Not exactly a huge economic driver for the entire city.

Short-sighted. This is more beneficial to the city of Ottawa than Melnyk.

When has a city putting money into a sports stadium ever been more lucrative for the city than the owner? The billionaire owners usually take advantage of inept city governments when it comes to making these deals, just like the light rail consortium has screwed over the city with trains that don't work and flawed stations.

 

[Stylizer1]

Cities cannot use levies in Ontario. If an arena could be financed through ticket surcharges then the owner is able to do that on their own. Property taxes are set by the province based upon the tax assessment and the city has little to do with it. Those tax dollars are also used to support the infrastructure that the arena uses.

How many tourists and visitors do NHL arenas attract? Those millions of visitors you speak of mostly consist of Ottawa residents visiting LeBreton repeatedly through the year. Those are people who would normally spend their money elsewhere in Ottawa but diverting it somewhere else. Not exactly a huge economic driver for the entire city.



When has a city putting money into a sports stadium ever been more lucrative for the city than the owner? The billionaire owners usually take advantage of inept city governments when it comes to making these deals, just like the light rail consortium has screwed over the city with trains that don't work and flawed stations.

Hey, what about all those national monuments nobody asked for? Our officials are gooder than theirs.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Cities cannot use levies in Ontario. If an arena could be financed through ticket surcharges then the owner is able to do that on their own. Property taxes are set by the province based upon the tax assessment and the city has little to do with it. Those tax dollars are also used to support the infrastructure that the arena uses.

How many tourists and visitors do NHL arenas attract? Those millions of visitors you speak of mostly consist of Ottawa residents visiting LeBreton repeatedly through the year. Those are people who would normally spend their money elsewhere in Ottawa but diverting it somewhere else. Not exactly a huge economic driver for the entire city.



When has a city putting money into a sports stadium ever been more lucrative for the city than the owner? The billionaire owners usually take advantage of inept city governments when it comes to making these deals, just like the light rail consortium has screwed over the city with trains that don't work and flawed stations.

Cities can't use levies for the construction of buildings but they can use it for the construction of walkways, roads, traffic lights/traffic features like speed bumps, water infrastructure, etc. Property taxes are set by the province and the local municipalities.

The second part of your post is ridiculous. How many people go to visit an arena and not the city the arena is in? The fact that you would frame your question that way is disingenuous to the discussion at hand. You reserve the right to believe that a massive development like this won't attract a large increase in out of town visitors but you'd be wrong.

As for the third part of your post, like I said, it's the city's responsibility to negotiate the best deal for themselves. But a development of this size should include the city's assistance because it's a benefit to the city in the long term.

 

[Masked]

Property taxes are set by the province and the local municipalities.

Your property tax bill is calculated by multiplying the current year phased-in property assessment value, as determined by the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC), by Council approved City Tax Rate(s) with the City Building Fund Levy and the Education Tax Rate, as set by the Government of Ontario.

The second part of your post is ridiculous. How many people go to visit an arena and not the city the arena is in? The fact that you would frame your question that way is disingenuous to the discussion at hand. You reserve the right to believe that a massive development like this won't attract a large increase in out of town visitors but you'd be wrong.

You're claiming millions will visit the arena while implying they're visiting from out of town and you call me ridiculous and disingenuous?

Go ahead and tell me how many out of town visitors will be visiting the arena? Maybe you missed it the first time I asked.

As for the third part of your post, like I said, it's the city's responsibility to negotiate the best deal for themselves. But a development of this size should include the city's assistance because it's a benefit to the city in the long term.

And like I said, when has a city ever benefited more from a sports stadium deal than the owner of the team? Economists generally agree that sports venues for major league sports are not a good use of tax dollars. Pretty much only a lobbyist for a sports league would argue that cities benefit from financing arenas.

 

[DrSense]

100% certain that nobody is stupid enough to buy the Sens if there is not a plan in place for a partially funded, if not fully funded arena. This town has proven that the professional teams don’t make enough cash many times before.

Agree - a new owner will have a plan to go after the new arena, and the NCC is just waiting for them to. And the City will most certainly apply some funding towards the infrastructure around the arena, because it's within their best interest to do so (and they do this often for private initiatives that appreciate the surrounding value, especially with a cultural plus). They'd just rather their $'s not go directly to the arena itself, which isn't really necessary either way with a real estate play attached to it still, potentially, and lots of surrounding requirements to augment the arena properly.

And realistically, buying the Sens was Melynk's most astute financial move of the last 15 years. Regardless of a bit of a financial bleeding here and there (which is more rumour than fact), his appreciation on the value of the franchise when he does sell it will be massive. And he made good coin in many of those years, despite his lamenting.

 

[Tuna99]

100% certain that nobody is stupid enough to buy the Sens if there is not a plan in place for a partially funded, if not fully funded arena. This town has proven that the professional teams don’t make enough cash many times before.

let’s start with a well run team funded by an owner with money. Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg don’t have money or winning issues. Let’s start there and see what happens.

but the world has changed. To pretend to you things are going back to normal is stupid. Melnyck had his chance to get an arena, he screwed it up. It’s not on the people of Ottawa to make this happen for him, it’s on him to make it happen for himself and his team. And there is no going back to the way it was before. The sports landscape was a golden path for Melnyck at one point in this city, he managed to screw that up and now he’s on an island All by himself and the plane won’t come get him because he doesn’t pay his bills

 

[BankStreetParade]

You're claiming millions will visit the arena while implying they're visiting from out of town and you call me ridiculous and disingenuous?

Go ahead and tell me how many out of town visitors will be visiting the arena? Maybe you missed it the first time I asked.

Nope didn't say that. I said there were estimates of more than 5 million annual visitors to the development. You said the vast majority of them would be from Ottawa and I'm only countering that these types of major developments bring an increase in out of town tourism which has a positive effect for the whole city.

Also, don't reduce yourself to one of those people who asks the other person for impossible to get information so they can prove their point. It's counterproductive and time-wasting.

And like I said, when has a city ever benefited more from a sports stadium deal than the owner of the team? Economists generally agree that sports venues for major league sports are not a good use of tax dollars. Pretty much only a lobbyist for a sports league would argue that cities benefit from financing arenas.

Why does someone have to benefit more than someone else? Why does a sports team owner who will not own the team forever bear the responsibility to redevelop an entire neighbourhood in a city, to the benefit of those residents, so that they can build a new arena (which will lose significant value over time)? I'm not saying the city has to pay for the whole project but there's a certain split that works for everyone - just like the majority of teams who have built stadiums since 2010. It's really frustrating to have these discussions when they're always reduced to extremes. One side wins, one side loses. There's tangible benefits to both sides in this case.

 

[Masked]

Short-sighted. This is more beneficial to the city of Ottawa than Melnyk.

Why does someone have to benefit more than someone else?

...

It's really frustrating to have these discussions when they're always reduced to extremes. One side wins, one side loses. There's tangible benefits to both sides in this case.

Great job. You're doing terrific.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Great job. You're doing terrific.

Right. I forgot when Melnyk sells the team they will also fold up all of the Lebreton developments.

 

[supsens]

let’s start with a well run team funded by an owner with money. Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg don’t have money or winning issues. Let’s start there and see what happens.

but the world has changed. To pretend to you things are going back to normal is stupid. Melnyck had his chance to get an arena, he screwed it up. It’s not on the people of Ottawa to make this happen for him, it’s on him to make it happen for himself and his team. And there is no going back to the way it was before. The sports landscape was a golden path for Melnyck at one point in this city, he managed to screw that up and now he’s on an island All by himself and the plane won’t come get him because he doesn’t pay his bills

Lol, melnyk was asked to build an arena out of pocket. Anyone that wants to invest 700 000 million has that 'chance'
The city also had a chance for a modern kickass downtown core but thought someone else should fund the entire project. Too many ego's in the way on all sides.

 

[Tuna99]

Lol, melnyk was asked to build an arena out of pocket. Anyone that wants to invest 700 000 million has that 'chance'
The city also had a chance for a modern kickass downtown core but thought someone else should fund the entire project. Too many ego's in the way on all sides.

new landscape in the world. People love sports, but it’s not an essential service when maybe before Covid we tricked ourselves into thinking it almost was. In February 2020 you could ask government for $250 million to build a stadium and push a mayor and maybe a Provincial Premiere around. July 2020 an NHL owner asking a government for $5 million will be laughed out of city hall. If the CFL can’t get money to run it’s entire league, no way Melnyck gets a penny from anyone.

athletes are opting out of playoff hockey and basketball because it’s to dangerous. It’s a new world. You gotta change you’re thinking in this.

I’ve also found in my life that when you want $300 million to build a stadium it really helps to not make everyone’s skin crawl.

there is no way forward for Poo-Jeans to get financing for a stadium. He’s in his bunker like his buddy Trump and all he can do is yell at people from a distance that’s it’s all their fault because no one wants to be his friend.

melncyk had his chance, it wasn’t perfect but that’s what you get for being a bum, and he screwed it because because he thought he was the engine to run Lebreton and the stake holders would be back to make him happy, and it turns out no one cares about Poo-Jeans or his happiness or his business, because when you have no friends in the city, that’s what happens.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Public money to fund an arena for Melnyk who is putting no money into the team? Yeah that’s a big no.

Worked in Edmonton, and it looks like the same type of arrangement is what is going to happen in Calgary .............. why can't it happen in Ottawa?



There is one thing that will NEVER happen in Ottawa, no matter who the owner of the Senators is, or will be .......... and that is a 100% funded (by the owner) construction of an downtown NHL arena. SO those people who are holding their collective breath for this to happen are never going to draw a breath again.