Confirmed with Link: Erne and Vrana file for Arbitration

[Revenge of Gru]

You are a broken record, dude.

It was a question. I am seeking your opinion.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I don't really see it that way. I think Yzerman is bringing in some stabilization for the struggling D. He didn't want to go through another season without the ability to break out of our own zone or have a powerplay. I am a firm believer that a lot of injuries happen when we are on the defensive side of broken plays and the bleeding needed to stop. The trade literally pushed every one of our D down the depth chart and gave us an average to above-average PP QB.

The fan base needs to realize something. Just because we have people playing in first line roles doesn't mean they are first line players. This team is getting owned

I am usually the most vocal critic of bringing vets into a rebuild but I understand this one. Leddy's old for the rebuild be he is not Alfredson old and this isn't anywhere near 16 games of Legwand territory. I think this trade needs some room to breathe.

Heck Yzerman even traded up this draft to grab his guy this is something I have been red-faced screaming about all of Holland's trade downs. We finally have a GM trading up. I mean fricking hallaluea!

I have been saying we don't have 1st line players. That's why squandering draft capital seems foolish to me. Obviously Yzerman has decided to try and draft a top line 12th overall. Seems to me that reduces your odds alot.

 

[Bench]

We are on a trajectory straight for the middle.

So you admit they are on the rise!

 

[Revenge of Gru]

So you admit they are on the rise!

Yes. We have emerged from the worst period since the dead wings era and we are riding Nick Leddy straight to pick #10ish! We can be kindred spirits with Arizona fans comparing our dead cap purchases!

 

[Bench]

Yes. We have emerged from the worst period since the dead wings era and we are riding Nick Leddy straight to pick #10ish! We can be kindred spirits with Arizona fans comparing our dead cap purchases!

Pick 10?

Holy smokes we're going to kick ass next year.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Pick 10?

Holy smokes we're going to kick ass next year.

It appears that's the target. Did you hear Stevie's presser the other day? He kept saying over and over that Pastrnak wasn't a high pick. He seemed exasperated that he tanked so hard and came up with so little.

 

[Retire91]

I have been saying we don't have 1st line players. That's why squandering draft capital seems foolish to me. Obviously Yzerman has decided to try and draft a top line 12th overall. Seems to me that reduces your odds alot.

I think he is taking a gamble that we get some lottery luck and get another top 4 pick where a center is available. I had some problems with this season's draft but I am at peace with it.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It was a question. I am seeking your opinion.

To answer your question for the 100th time, Leddy for 1 year has more upside than the #52 overall pick and the potential to draft Raty with it.

As much as you bitch about throwing away picks at Leddy you're forgetting one thing: WE NEED TO ICE AN NHL ROSTER AND REACH THE SALARY CAP FLOOR.

Second, the #52 overall pick is a low probability pick. Like, really low.
NHL Draft Pick Probabilities

What does it cost to trade up in the draft?

When the Trade Market and Draft Market intersect and how to exploit them

That page has charts that show the value of the #52 overall as well as the probability a player picked at #52 overall plays 200+ NHL games in their career. The #52 overall pick is closer to the #90 overall pick in terms of value than it is the #26 overall pick.

Also, here's this to consider.
EXPECTED DRAFT VALUE OF A FORWARD SELECTED TOP 90 OVERALL Average points per game by draft slot.

For a player picked around #52 the expected average points per game over the course of their career is 0.18. 14.76 points per 82 games.
So yeah. Getting Leddy, even if for one season, he is way more valuable than a draft pick that has a 35% chance of scoring 15 points a season for us if we're looking at just the averages.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think he is taking a gamble that we get some lottery luck and get another top 4 pick where a center is available. I had some problems with this season's draft but I am at peace with it.

Dude there are probably going to be 8+ centers available in the first round in 2022, and probably 5 in the top 10. It's filthy with centers like 2021 was filthy with defensemen.

 

[Retire91]

Dude there are probably going to be 8+ centers available in the first round in 2022, and probably 5 in the top 10. It's filthy with centers like 2021 was filthy with defensemen.

That is Awesome news!

 

[Revenge of Gru]

To answer your question for the 100th time, Leddy for 1 year has more upside than the #52 overall pick and the potential to draft Raty with it.

As much as you bitch about throwing away picks at Leddy you're forgetting one thing: WE NEED TO ICE AN NHL ROSTER AND REACH THE SALARY CAP FLOOR.

Second, the #52 overall pick is a low probability pick.
NHL Draft Pick Probabilities

What does it cost to trade up in the draft?

When the Trade Market and Draft Market intersect and how to exploit them

That page has charts that show the value of the #52 overall as well as the probability a player picked at #52 overall plays 200+ NHL games in their career. The #52 overall pick is closer to the #90 overall pick in terms of value than it is the #26 overall pick.

Also, here's this to consider.
EXPECTED DRAFT VALUE OF A FORWARD SELECTED TOP 90 OVERALL Average points per game by draft slot.

For a player picked around #52 the expected average points per game over the course of their career is 0.18. 14.76 points per 82 games.
So yeah. Getting Leddy, even if for one season, he is way more valuable than a draft pick that has a 35% chance of scoring 15 points a season for us if we're looking at just the averages.

Kucherov was #58. You can't win if you don't play.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Kucherov was #58. You can't win if you don't play.

Come on, that's not really fair to cherry pick literally one name out of 100 names or so take +/- 10 picks of that spot and go "See!"

That's a bad faith argument.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I have been saying we don't have 1st line players. That's why squandering draft capital seems foolish to me. Obviously Yzerman has decided to try and draft a top line 12th overall. Seems to me that reduces your odds alot.

Try, just try to see another perspective or process it from a different angle.


1. For instance, that 2nd (52nd) overall is decent/modest trade/draft value. = 1 yr of Leddy


2. It also helps our entire young D corps [Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom], possibly more if Leddy is retained or traded (recoup 2nd/late 1st) & re-signed in UFA. Can't really put a price on that impact yet, if ever.


3. It inflates trade values throughout the lineup, even a little bit, which helps.


4. It gives our roster more confidence, they put up more pts. & they're happier to not get shelled a la '18-'20.


5.

• Happy players stay here & sign for less or team friendly deals.
  Happy players w/confidence start to believe in the Yzerplan.
  Happy players don't need external influences (see Happy Hudler after he left DET, not so happy then was he? <snorts on plane>) to feel fulfilled/"happy".
  The camaraderie, on-ice product, self-improvement (professionally & personal growth) etc.
  Happy players won't drown themselves in alcohol to find their centered space, nor need any gas station fluzies/lot lizards or cash grabbin' gold diggin' dragon ladies/succubus from hell/wanna be trophy wives.

6. For your own piece of mind, consider the above & reread it if it didn't "click" the 1st time. Good luck.

If all that fails, adopt a kitten, puppy, lizard, whatever, just take care of it properly.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Come on, that's not really fair to cherry pick literally one name out of 100 names or so take +/- 10 picks of that spot and go "See!"

That's a bad faith argument.

I know man. I'm simply in favor of more kicks at the can and closer to the top. The Leddy deal doesn't get us either. If next year is such a great year for centers I would rather tough out another brutal year than go searching for Pastrnak as Yzerman suggested the other day. We really don't have much to show for the horror of the last few seasons.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Try, just try to see another perspective or process it from a different angle.


1. For instance, that 2nd (52nd) overall is decent/modest trade/draft value. = 1 yr of Leddy


2. It also helps our entire young D corps [Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom], possibly more if Leddy is retained or traded (recoup 2nd/late 1st) & re-signed in UFA. Can't really put a price on that impact yet, if ever.


3. It inflates trade values throughout the lineup, even a little bit, which helps.


4. It gives our roster more confidence, they put up more pts. & they're happier to not get shelled a la '18-'20.


5.

• Happy players stay here & sign for less or team friendly deals.
  Happy players w/confidence start to believe in the Yzerplan.
  Happy players don't need external influences (see Happy Hudler after he left DET, not so happy then was he? <snorts on plane>) to feel fulfilled/"happy".
  The camaraderie, on-ice product, self-improvement (professionally & personal growth) etc.
  Happy players won't drown themselves in alcohol to find their centered space, nor need any gas station fluzies/lot lizards or cash grabbin' gold diggin' dragon ladies/succubus from hell/wanna be trophy wives.

6. For your own piece of mind, consider the above & reread it if it didn't "click" the 1st time. Good luck.

If all that fails, adopt a kitten, puppy, lizard, whatever, just take care of it properly.

Leddy=no lot lizards! Got it! Boy am I relieved that we got Leddy just in the knick of time!

 

[lilidk]

Really doubt it.
Basically, Leddy's a placeholder.
Gives you NHL-level depth for a year and then you trade him for the second you ate.

If he is good with wings ,If he is good mentor, just keep him

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Try, just try to see another perspective or process it from a different angle.


1. For instance, that 2nd (52nd) overall is decent/modest trade/draft value. = 1 yr of Leddy


2. It also helps our entire young D corps [Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom], possibly more if Leddy is retained or traded (recoup 2nd/late 1st) & re-signed in UFA. Can't really put a price on that impact yet, if ever.


3. It inflates trade values throughout the lineup, even a little bit, which helps.


4. It gives our roster more confidence, they put up more pts. & they're happier to not get shelled a la '18-'20.


5.

• Happy players stay here & sign for less or team friendly deals.
  Happy players w/confidence start to believe in the Yzerplan.
  Happy players don't need external influences (see Happy Hudler after he left DET, not so happy then was he? <snorts on plane>) to feel fulfilled/"happy".
  The camaraderie, on-ice product, self-improvement (professionally & personal growth) etc.
  Happy players won't drown themselves in alcohol to find their centered space, nor need any gas station fluzies/lot lizards or cash grabbin' gold diggin' dragon ladies/succubus from hell/wanna be trophy wives.

6. For your own piece of mind, consider the above & reread it if it didn't "click" the 1st time. Good luck.

If all that fails, adopt a kitten, puppy, lizard, whatever, just take care of it properly.

Wait. Who keeps Leddy of the sauce now that he's been traded from a contender to one of the worst teams in the NHL?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Leddy=no lot lizards! Got it! Boy am I relieved that we got Leddy just in the knick of time!

It could, but not necessarily. Correlation doesn't always equal causation.

 

[SirloinUB]

I know man. I'm simply in favor of more kicks at the can and closer to the top. The Leddy deal doesn't get us either. If next year is such a great year for centers I would rather tough out another brutal year than go searching for Pastrnak as Yzerman suggested the other day. We really don't have much to show for the horror of the last few seasons.

Everyone, including yzerman is in favour of more kicks at the can.

“Honestly, I hate giving up draft picks,” Yzerman said. “I feel every draft pick, regardless of a first round or seventh round, is hope.”

“I love accumulating (draft picks) and keeping them and using them, but this year we were just in a situation we felt it was important (to trade),” Yzerman said. “It does give you options.”

 

[Revenge of Gru]

If he is good with wings ,If he is good mentor, just keep him

Leddy will sign a long term deal elsewhere. There's no way Yzerman will give him 6-7 years but somebody will for sure. He will make another 25-30 million and win somewhere else. Why would he sign short term for less to lose here?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Everyone, including yzerman is in favour of more kicks at the can.

Yet he traded away at least 6 picks this year. Some for short term little boosts. It's as if he is trying to come up with another plan on the fly.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yet he traded away at least 6 picks this year. Some for short term little boosts. It's as if he is trying to come up with another plan on the fly.

so you’re calling Yzerman a liar?

In reality Team building isn’t linear and you need to approach it from multiple angles.

Sometimes you trade up for a Brayden Point and sometimes You need to complement your young players with vets to help them develop.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Which has more upside? Him or 1 year of Nick Leddy?

1 year of Nick Leddy. Because if we get a defense that can actually get the puck to guys in transition, you can see several players get better. You can see that Larkin isn't a 30 point C and that he's really a low end 1C, optimal badass 2C instead of "hope he's a 2C". Zadina, Raymond, Berggren, Rasmussen, Bertuzzi, Vrana? If Leddy and Seider can come in and the Wings can have a system where they don't have to collapse into a 1-2-2 to not get assblasted every game... I think that would be worth one hell of a lot more than the <10% Aatu Raty is the guy he was thought to be.

I couldn't possibly give any shit less that he went 6+8 in this summer showcase. One tournament after the pressure of the draft is off doesn't rehab a year of stubbing your toe for a year.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

so you’re calling Yzerman a liar?

In reality Team building isn’t linear and you need to approach it from multiple angles.

Sometimes you trade up for a Brayden Point and sometimes You need to complement your young players with vets to help them develop.

No I'm not calling him a liar. I'm saying this offseason he traded away almost as many picks as he made. I think he seemed frustrated in the last presser because he tanked hard and came up with no franchise players. Now he seems to be scrambling a bit. His comments about Pastrnak were particularly telling. It was like an exasperated "Well we're just gonna try to find superstars in the 4th rd because we can't find them in the top of the draft". I hope people aren't mocking those comments in a few years like they did Holland. If we don't find some stud centers the Yzerplan ain't gonna be so "infallible" in the not too distant future especially when there are inevitable busts. IMO people already have unrealistic expectations on the rebuild timeline.

 

[Gniwder]

1 year of Nick Leddy. Because if we get a defense that can actually get the puck to guys in transition, you can see several players get better. You can see that Larkin isn't a 30 point C and that he's really a low end 1C, optimal badass 2C instead of "hope he's a 2C". Zadina, Raymond, Berggren, Rasmussen, Bertuzzi, Vrana? If Leddy and Seider can come in and the Wings can have a system where they don't have to collapse into a 1-2-2 to not get assblasted every game... I think that would be worth one hell of a lot more than the <10% Aatu Raty is the guy he was thought to be.

I couldn't possibly give any shit less that he went 6+8 in this summer showcase. One tournament after the pressure of the draft is off doesn't rehab a year of stubbing your toe for a year.

He looks good playing against his peers, but not against grown men. Only a handful of drafted players played in a men's league, I think he dropped more than he should have.