Value of: Erik Karlsson - UFA. Will it happen? Where does he end up?

[IceManCat]

The ol’ why be for sure good for the next 1-3 years when you could be potentially good 3-6 years down the road argument.

Is it flawed ?

 

[Morbo]

He’ll sign somewhere that is closer to Ottawa.

 

[135ace]

In 3-4 years do you really think the Sharks will have a better team? The Panthers top players will be entering their primes while the Sharks top players will be on the wrong side of 30. If he wants to compete within three years than great the Sharks will be a good fit. Beyond that I’m not so sure the Sharks will be as competitive. Not to mention if the Panthers add Panarin and Bobrovsky as rumored the Panthers with Karlsson will be a better team than the Sharks with Karlsson.

The panthers have been irrelevant since entering the league and will continue to be. Also, do you realize that nothing like what you're suggesting ever happens. This isn't NHL 19 for xbox. You won't be able to sign 3 of the biggest UFA fish while shedding the cap needed to fit them. I will bet you anything. And even if you magically do why would EK think you'll be a better team? Your players are already in their prime and the team is hot garbage. Adding 3 guys while shedding a bunch of other talent (Hoffman is literally your leading goalscorer and would have to be moved) is not much more then a lateral move. Maybe you make the playoffs, but you're out to lunch if you think the panthers are anywhere near being a contender.

 

[BatVader]

I think he’ll sign an 8 yr after the TDL.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Is it flawed ?

Incredibly?

 

[IceManCat]

The panthers have been irrelevant since entering the league and will continue to be. Also, do you realize that nothing like what you're suggesting ever happens. This isn't NHL 19 for xbox. You won't be able to sign 3 of the biggest UFA fish while shedding the cap needed to fit them. I will bet you anything. And even if you magically do why would EK think you'll be a better team? Your players are already in their prime and the team is hot garbage. Adding 3 guys while shedding a bunch of other talent (Hoffman is literally your leading goalscorer and would have to be moved) is not much more then a lateral move. Maybe you make the playoffs, but you're out to lunch if you think the panthers are anywhere near being a contender.

Sure but two of those three are most likely heading here. We aren’t far from being a contender we have 5 players who are flirting at a point per game pace. Hoffman only has 5 goals less than your leading goal scorer what does that say about the Sharks ? LOL. Our problems are goaltending and I’d wager to say if the Sharks played in the Atlantic instead of the cake walk Pacific division their record would be much worse. They are going to get hammered once they play a competitive team in the playoffs

 

[IceManCat]

Incredibly?

Signing long term with an aging team is a great idea..Pavelski is 37 in two years, Thornton turns 65 and Burns is 36 this is all within two years so a player entering his prime potentially signing for 8 years will no doubt consider the age of his teammates. To say that he shouldn’t is incredibly ridiculous especially consider he has option to go to a younger more competitive team ala Tampa, NY Islanders, Calgary etc etc all these teams are younger and will better within just a couple of years. Calling it a flawed idea is ridiculous

 

[Herschel]

Sure but two of those three are most likely heading here. We aren’t far from being a contender we have 5 players who are flirting at a point per game pace. Hoffman only has 5 goals less than your leading goal scorer what does that say about the Sharks ? LOL. Our problems are goaltending and I’d wager to say if the Sharks played in the Atlantic instead of the cake walk Pacific division their record would be much worse. They are going to get hammered once they play a competitive team in the playoffs

Not really sure what you are trying to argue here.

The bottom 3 in the Atlantic are all terrible teams with similar records to the bottom 3 in the Pacific. I'll give you that Tampa is the best in the league but the rest of the Atlantic, Toronto, Boston, and Montreal are not any better than Calgary, San Jose, and Vegas.

Hoffman has 25 goals, which is 5 behind the Sharks leading scorer but it would also have him in 4th on the Sharks.
Sharks have 3 forwards with 50 points, 2 with 49 and 8 that are already over 30. Oh, and their two best players are defenceman.
That is a level of depth that few teams are able to offer.

 

[IceManCat]

Not really sure what you are trying to argue here.

The bottom 3 in the Atlantic are all terrible teams with similar records to the bottom 3 in the Pacific. I'll give you that Tampa is the best in the league but the rest of the Atlantic, Toronto, Boston, and Montreal are not any better than Calgary, San Jose, and Vegas.

Hoffman has 25 goals, which is 5 behind the Sharks leading scorer but it would also have him in 4th on the Sharks.
Sharks have 3 forwards with 50 points, 2 with 49 and 8 that are already over 30. Oh, and their two best players are defenceman.
That is a level of depth that few teams are able to offer.

My Point was that point was that the Panthers have or will have similar offensive depth as the Sharks. We have three players that are PPG players in Huberdeau, Barkov and Trocheck. Then we have offensive depth in Dadonov and Hoffman. If we were to add Panarin as rumored it would give us six very good offensive players along with top prospect Borgstrom. Going into the next couple,of years the Panthers will have a more offensive group than the Sharks aging core.

The East a whole is a younger and more difficult conference than the West. I would say the top teams in the Atlantic are much better than the top teams in the pacific.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Is it flawed ?

Yes, it is completely f***ing flawed.

In 2009-2010, the Sharks were an older team than they are today. Older by every measure - average age, average age relative to league average, average age among core players, etc. That was 9 years ago.

Between the start of that season and today, they are 3rd in regular season wins and 5th in playoff wins. And this season, they’re on track to do the same exact thing as they did that season; finish 1st in the West and 2nd in the NHL.

The Florida Panthers, meanwhile, were touted as an up-and-coming young team. They finished 3rd worst in the NHL and selected Erik Gudbranson. The young, physical defenseman was set to be a cornerstone piece for years to come. In the coming years, they continued to suck, adding top picks like Huberdeau, Barkov, and Ekblad. And look where that’s got them.

 

[Patty Ice]

Signing long term with an aging team is a great idea..Pavelski is 37 in two years, Thornton turns 65 and Burns is 36 this is all within two years so a player entering his prime potentially signing for 8 years will no doubt consider the age of his teammates. To say that he shouldn’t is incredibly ridiculous especially consider he has option to go to a younger more competitive team ala Tampa, NY Islanders, Calgary etc etc all these teams are younger and will better within just a couple of years. Calling it a flawed idea is ridiculous

It's because you like a lot of others are stuck in the past. You still see the Sharks as Jumbo and Pav's team. While they are to a certain extent, the success of the Sharks has been running through Burns, Couture, and Hertl for quite some time. Add fresh faces like Kane, Meier, and LaBanc and Wilson's machine keeps chugging along. Having Karlsson remain with that group just makes them even more deadly.

But go ahead and keep thinking the Sharks time is up like everyone else has for the past 8 years. Maybe one day you guys will be right.

 

[IceManCat]

Yes, it is completely ****ing flawed.

In 2009-2010, the Sharks were an older team than they are today. Older by every measure - average age, average age relative to league average, average age among core players, etc. That was 9 years ago.

Between the start of that season and today, they are 3rd in regular season wins and 5th in playoff wins. And this season, they’re on track to do the same exact thing as they did that season; finish 1st in the West and 2nd in the NHL.

The Florida Panthers, meanwhile, were touted as an up-and-coming young team. They finished 3rd worst in the NHL and selected Erik Gudbranson. The young, physical defenseman was set to be a cornerstone piece for years to come. In the coming years, they continued to suck, adding top picks like Huberdeau, Barkov, and Ekblad. And look where that’s got them.

That’s a terrible argument... they may have been older but look who was younger they had Couture, Pavelski, Thornton wasn’t 100 years old he was actually in his prime, Vlasic was young etc... who do the sharks have today that is comparable to those young players? Timo Meir talented but not as good as Couture/Pavelski. Who is your next Joe Thornton ? You’re acting like you have another Thornton waiting there to replace him. Who is the replacement for Burns? Again a terrible and flawed argument...

The top picks that we added are PPG players now?

 

[IceManCat]

It's because you like a lot of others are stuck in the past. You still see the Sharks as Jumbo and Pav's team. While they are to a certain extent, the success of the Sharks has been running through Burns, Couture, and Hertl for quite some time. Add fresh faces like Kane, Meier, and LaBanc and Wilson's machine keeps chugging along. Having Karlsson remain with that group just makes them even more deadly.

But go ahead and keep thinking the Sharks time is up like everyone else has for the past 8 years. Maybe one day you guys will be right.

I don’t hate the Sharks I actually like them a lot. But tell me is their a replacement for Thornton? Is Meir, Hertl and company as talented as or better than Pavelski and company I think not. Plus who will be your top center going forward you’ll have to address it through free agency not saying it isn’t possible but the players are t there in the foreseeable future

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

My Point was that point was that the Panthers have or will have similar offensive depth as the Sharks. We have three players that are PPG players in Huberdeau, Barkov and Trocheck. Then we have offensive depth in Dadonov and Hoffman. If we were to add Panarin as rumored it would give us six very good offensive players along with top prospect Borgstrom. Going into the next couple,of years the Panthers will have a more offensive group than the Sharks aging core.

The East a whole is a younger and more difficult conference than the West. I would say the top teams in the Atlantic are much better than the top teams in the pacific.

Trocheck is currently scoring 0.68 points per game. If we’re stretching the truth far enough to call him a point per game player, then the Sharks have 5 forwards and 2 defensemen that are well above a point per game, and another 2 forwards that are close.

Or, if we want to live in reality and take a trip away from fantasy land, the Sharks’ “aging core” is led by two forwards: 25 year old Tomas Hertl and 22 year old Timo Meier. They’ve got a combined points per game of 1.93 and a combined age of 47. Barkov and Huberdeau, meanwhile, have a combined points per game of 1.91 and a combined age of 48. Hertl and Meier are also two of the best possession players in the NHL.

 

[Patty Ice]

I don’t hate the Sharks I actually like them a lot. But tell me is their a replacement for Thornton? Is Meir, Hertl and company as talented as or better than Pavelski and company I think not. Plus who will be your top center going forward you’ll have to address it through free agency not saying it isn’t possible but the players are t there in the foreseeable future

Time will answer that question and right now it's looking to be in the Sharks favor. You may think not but you also don't follow the team. It's classic HF to make uninformed opinions and try to keep it as the narrative. You can believe you are right but every year the Sharks remain competitive and it doesn't appear to be slowing down.

 

[IceManCat]

Trocheck is currently scoring 0.68 points per game. If we’re stretching the truth far enough to call him a point per game player, then the Sharks have 5 forwards and 2 defensemen that are well above a point per game, and another 2 forwards that are close.

Or, if we want to live in reality and take a trip away from fantasy land, the Sharks’ “aging core” is led by two forwards: 25 year old Tomas Hertl and 22 year old Timo Meier. They’ve got a combined points per game of 1.93 and a combined age of 47. Barkov and Huberdeau, meanwhile, have a combined points per game of 1.91 and a combined age of 48. Hertl and Meier are also two of the best possession players in the NHL.

Are you suggesting that Meir and Hertl are as talented as Barkov and Huberdeau lmao.. and they are leading the team by themselves ?? You’re kidding where did Thornton, Pavs and Couture go? They must have quit and retired early I didn’t know they stopped playing and producing already I expected it to happen two/three years from now LOL. Regarding Trocheck he isn’t a PPG player you are right but he is a 70+ point player and just got back from a prettty serious injury I think we can give just a little bit of an adjustment period before he returns to form

 

[IceManCat]

Time will answer that question and right now it's looking to be in the Sharks favor. You may think not but you also don't follow the team. It's classic HF to make uninformed opinions and try to keep it as the narrative. You can believe you are right but every year the Sharks remain competitive and it doesn't appear to be slowing down.

I don’t think I’m being uninformed I’m saying where are the eventual replacements I see two/three players now that are talented but not as talented as the current “older core” it’s not a matter of being uninformed it’s just a matter of where are they and when will the replacements come? I think it’s a valid question that begs a better answer than “we didn’t lose competitiveness before therefore we won’t lose competitiveness in the future” I just don’t think that reasoning is valid.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That’s a terrible argument... they may have been older but look who was younger they had Couture, Pavelski, Thornton wasn’t 100 years old he was actually in his prime, Vlasic was young etc... who do the sharks have today that is comparable to those young players? Timo Meir talented but not as good as Couture/Pavelski. Who is your next Joe Thornton ? You’re acting like you have another Thornton waiting there to replace him. Who is the replacement for Burns? Again a terrible and flawed argument...

The top picks that we added are PPG players now?

You are completely ignorant on these players and it shows.

Timo Meier and Tomas Hertl are the Sharks’ two best forwards today. Right now. And Meier and Hertl at 22 and 25 years old, respectively, are better players than Couture and Pavelski were at the same age. Hell, Hertl right now is a better player than Couture ever was and if he has another monster playoff performance, I’ll give him the edge over peak Pavelski as well.

The replacement for Burns? Gee, I don’t know, how about Erik f***ing Karlsson? What a dumb question. They didn’t even have Burns in 2010. They acquired him in the summer of 2011. Doug Wilson is the only GM in the NHL that has proven his ability to consistently acquire superstar players without drafting them and when the time comes, he will do it again. Since 2010, he’s acquired a 25 year old Burns, a 26 year old Kane, a 26 year old Martin Jones, and a 28 year old Erik Karlsson. In that same time frame, the Panthers have chosen two defensemen in the top-3, but neither of them have come close to the defensemen that Doug Wilson acquired in exchange for spare parts. On top of that, Burns is going through a fantastic aging curve and he’s going to be the only defenseman to be top-3 in Norris voting for 3 of the last 4 seasons. And every single one of those seasons will have come after the age of 30.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Are you suggesting that Meir and Hertl are as talented as Barkov and Huberdeau lmao.. and they are leading the team by themselves ?? You’re kidding where did Thornton, Pavs and Couture go? They must have quit and retired early I didn’t know they stopped playing and producing already I expected it to happen two/three years from now LOL. Regarding Trocheck he isn’t a PPG player you are right but he is a 70+ point player and just got back from a prettty serious injury I think we can give just a little bit of an adjustment period before he returns to form

I stated a fact; they have a lesser combined age and a higher combined points per game than the Cats’ duo. They are also elite possession players.

I don’t think I’m being uninformed I’m saying where are the eventual replacements I see two/three players now that are talented but not as talented as the current “older core” it’s not a matter of being uninformed it’s just a matter of where are they and when will the replacements come? I think it’s a valid question that begs a better answer than “we didn’t lose competitiveness before therefore we won’t lose competitiveness in the future” I just don’t think that reasoning is valid.

Yes, you are completely uninformed and not worth continuing this discussion with if you think that Couture, Pavelski, and Thornton are as important as Hertl and Meier.

The four most important players on the team are Karlsson, Burns, Hertl, and Meier. This isn’t a question to anybody who pays attention to the team, or even just looks at their stats.

 

[IceManCat]

You are completely ignorant on these players and it shows.

Timo Meier and Tomas Hertl are the Sharks’ two best forwards today. Right now. And Meier and Hertl at 22 and 25 years old, respectively, are better players than Couture and Pavelski were at the same age. Hell, Hertl right now is a better player than Couture ever was and if he has another monster playoff performance, I’ll give him the edge over peak Pavelski as well.

The replacement for Burns? Gee, I don’t know, how about Erik ****ing Karlsson? What a dumb question. They didn’t even have Burns in 2010. They acquired him in the summer of 2011. Doug Wilson is the only GM in the NHL that has proven his ability to consistently acquire superstar players without drafting them and when the time comes, he will do it again. Since 2010, he’s acquired a 25 year old Burns, a 26 year old Kane, a 26 year old Martin Jones, and a 28 year old Erik Karlsson. In that same time frame, the Panthers have chosen two defensemen in the top-3, but neither of them have come close to the defensemen that Doug Wilson acquired in exchange for spare parts. On top of that, Burns is going through a fantastic aging curve and he’s going to be the only defenseman to be top-3 in Norris voting for 3 of the last 4 seasons. And every single one of those seasons will have come after the age of 30.

.I’ll say it again for the 1000th time I understand that Hertl and Meir are talented players and leading the team offensively that’s great for your team..woohooo. The entire point is where are the replacements for your other core players. Where is the replacement for Thornton, Pavelski, Couture etccc. And the replacement for Burns is Karlsson how interesting. At one point the Senators had Karlsson also and some talented players like Hoffman, Duchene and Stone. So your saying the Sharks will be the new Ottawa Senators within three years? A great defenseman and a couple,of talented wingers that sounds a whole lot like the uber successful Senators of last year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

.I’ll say it again for the 1000th time I understand that Hertl and Meir are talented players and leading the team offensively that’s great for your team..woohooo. The entire point is where are the replacements for your other core players. Where is the replacement for Thornton, Pavelski, Couture etccc. And the replacement for Burns is Karlsson how interesting. At one point the Senators had Karlsson also and some talented players like Hoffman, Duchene and Stone. So your saying the Sharks will be the new Ottawa Senators within three years? A great defenseman and a couple,of talented wingers that sounds a whole lot like the uber successful Senators of last year.

The replacement for Thornton is irrelevant at this stage. He’s a sheltered 3rd line center who is barely putting up above average results in that position.

The comparison to the Senators shows how far your lack of knowledge is and also how immature you’re willing to get because you don’t really know what you’re talking about. San Jose has the richest owner in the NHL, Ottawa has the cheapest. San Jose has a long history of being a successful team while Ottawa has a long history of being a mess.

On top of that, Hertl is a center. One who’s scoring at above a point per game. On who, among centers, is 17th in points, 11th in even strength points, and 3rd in even strength points per 60.

 

[Patty Ice]

I don’t think I’m being uninformed I’m saying where are the eventual replacements I see two/three players now that are talented but not as talented as the current “older core” it’s not a matter of being uninformed it’s just a matter of where are they and when will the replacements come? I think it’s a valid question that begs a better answer than “we didn’t lose competitiveness before therefore we won’t lose competitiveness in the future” I just don’t think that reasoning is valid.

Ok well you are asking questions but are not listening to the answers the people who do follow the Sharks are telling you. It's Hertl and Meier that will be leading a very talented group. You are just refusing to accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative that the Cats have a real chance at signing Karlsson because they have the young talent that you believe the Sharks do not possess. So yes, you are uninformed and what is worse you choose to remain that way contrary to the information that is presented to you.

 

[IceManCat]

The replacement for Thornton is irrelevant at this stage. He’s a sheltered 3rd line center who is barely putting up above average results in that position.

The comparison to the Senators shows how far your lack of knowledge is and also how immature you’re willing to get because you don’t really know what you’re talking about. San Jose has the richest owner in the NHL, Ottawa has the cheapest. San Jose has a long history of being a successful team while Ottawa has a long history of being a mess.

On top of that, Hertl is a center. One who’s scoring at above a point per game. On who, among centers, is 17th in points, 11th in even strength points, and 3rd in even strength points per 60.

The senators have the same amount of Stanley Cup appearances as the Sharks do and if you want to use recency bias than sure the Sharks are better managed but let’s not forget the Senators had a core of Spezza, Chara, Redden for many years along with Hossa/Heatley they were one of the best teams in the East for the better part of the 2000’s. And if the Sharks are so great at signing free agents where is the long history of top free agent signings? He may be uber rich great where is the history of that landing great free agents ? Again your making irrelevant points than calling me immature

 

[IceManCat]

Ok well you are asking questions but are not listening to the answers the people who do follow the Sharks are telling you. It's Hertl and Meier that will be leading a very talented group. You are just refusing to accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative that the Cats have a real chance at signing Karlsson because they have the young talent that you believe the Sharks do not possess. So yes, you are uninformed and what is worse you choose to remain that way contrary to the information that is presented to you.

Ok so if I say Barkov and Huberdeau are leading the Panthers that doesn’t mean the Panthers are contenders otherwise they would be. I’m looking at the entire team as a whole that’s what you need to be competitive not a couple of young guns. The blackhawks had Toews and Kane as their young guns then they had an entire supporting cast of,players when they won. I’m saying where is that cast when Thronton, Pavs and company retire within a few years the answers ive had include the owner is rich and we have a history of being competitive. If that’s your answer than so be it. And I don’t realistically expect him to come to Florida unlike Panarin and Bobrovsky I do on the other hand expect him to go to a younger team with long term potential .

 

[bert]

The replacement for Thornton is irrelevant at this stage. He’s a sheltered 3rd line center who is barely putting up above average results in that position.

The comparison to the Senators shows how far your lack of knowledge is and also how immature you’re willing to get because you don’t really know what you’re talking about. San Jose has the richest owner in the NHL, Ottawa has the cheapest. San Jose has a long history of being a successful team while Ottawa has a long history of being a mess.

On top of that, Hertl is a center. One who’s scoring at above a point per game. On who, among centers, is 17th in points, 11th in even strength points, and 3rd in even strength points per 60.

You havent been following hockey for very long have you.