GWT: EPL - Matchweek 17

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Haevertz scores at a 3.4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Chelsea and he's trash. He scores at a 4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Arsenal and he's back to being elite.

Yea that makes sense. That's a 2 goal difference in pace over an entire season.

And neither of those 2 extra goals are in a UCL Final, FWIW

 

[Savant]

I think Utd picked (mostly) the right lineup and LFC picked (mostly) the wrong lineup

 

[bluesfan94]

Haevertz scores at a 3.4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Chelsea and he's trash. He scores at a 4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Arsenal and he's back to being elite.

Yea that makes sense. That's a 2 goal difference in pace over an entire season.

Yeah, it took a little while for Kai to rebuild confidence and understand the system. Now that he has, he has 4 in 7

 

[Blender]

Which goes to the point of Chelsea playing him long. If he's not the primary threat, he's fantastic at finding open pockets and taking advantage, but if he's the main guy to mark, he loses effectiveness. Chelsea played him all over and isolated him to be the main guy. What do you know, he wasn't as good.

I bet if he was in Chelsea's team now with more options around him, he would be looking a lot better. Of course, that's only now that we've rebuilt his confidence.

His first season here he was 5th on the team in goal scoring. He played with Abraham, Werner, Pulisic, and Giroud ahead of him at various times with the expectation that Havertz get into open space to score. He didn't.

His second season he was 2nd on the team behind Lukaku. Played with Lukaku, Werner, and Pulisic ahead of him at various times with the expectation that Havertz get into open space to score. He did better than his horrific debut season at least.

Last season was all around a disaster where he was tied with Sterling for the lead. Still, it's not like he was a positive contributor on the whole, just one of many under performers.

 

[cgf]

Laughable to suggest that is a downgrade considering Havertz' track record, but you do you.

The narrative of whether Chelsea was more dysfunctional and more of a midtable club last year or this year seems to shift with every thread to benefit what narrative is preferred.

If Kai ends up a success at Arsenal, then Chelsea will be the only blip on his track record. He was great for Leverkusen and is great for the NT

 

[hatterson]

Yeah, it took a little while for Kai to rebuild confidence and understand the system. Now that he has, he has 4 in 7

He had 5 in 5 at one point at Chelsea.

 

[Blender]

Uh yes. Volland and Alario combined for more goals for a reason. The striker position was the main threat. Havertz was the complimentary threat and that's what he does so well.

Which is why it was crazy to watch Chelsea do what they did. And that's why Arteta had to rebuild Havertz's confidence. Now that he has, he's scoring rapidly.

Again, just being the leading scorer doesn't mean that you're the main goal threat. No one would confuse Odegaard for Arsenal's main scoring threat and yet.

"Scoring rapidly" ok.

Volland and Alario played comparable game time to Havertz, it's not like they rotated out as the striker as the main threat. Havertz was the main goal scoring threat.

Haevertz scores at a 3.4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Chelsea and he's trash. He scores at a 4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Arsenal and he's back to being elite.

Yea that makes sense. That's a 2 goal difference in pace over an entire season.

 

[Jussi]

I think Utd picked (mostly) the right lineup and LFC picked (mostly) the wrong lineup

United picked who they could with all the injuries and suspension.

 

[Blender]

Yeah, it took a little while for Kai to rebuild confidence and understand the system. Now that he has, he has 4 in 7

Saving this post if he goes cold again, because he's had streaks like this before at Chelsea then went weeks with nothing.

 

[hatterson]

United picked who they could with all the injuries and suspension.

Rashford is really the only realistic player on the bench who could have adjusted the lineup.

 

[Jussi]

Rashford is really the only realistic player on the bench who could have adjusted the lineup.

Pretty much.

Lindelöf's food poisoning must've been pretty bad if he's still out.

 

[cgf]

Havertz was a lethal false 9 for Leverkusen...but that formation worked so well because they had Wirtz drifting around the space created, Volland running in behind on one wing, and Diaby burning up the other.

You can label Kai the main goal threat in that shape, but without Wirtz orchestrating everything...which Chelsea did not have...it just wasn't going to work the same, and Volland running into the spaces Kai opened up was their most direct threat.

 

[Blender]

Havertz was a lethal false 9 for Leverkusen...but that formation worked so well because they had Wirtz in behind him, Volland running in behind on the wing and Diaby burning up the other flank.

You can label Kai the main goal threat in that shape, but without Wirtz orchestrating everything...which Chelsea did not have...it just wasn't going to work the same.

Wirtz only played 9 games the last season Havertz was there?

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Havertz was a lethal false 9 for Leverkusen...but that formation worked so well because they had Wirtz in behind him, Volland running in behind on the wing and Diaby burning up the other flank.

You can label Kai the main goal threat in that shape, but without Wirtz orchestrating everything...which Chelsea did not have...it just wasn't going to work the same.

And the moments that he worked at Chelsea were when it clicked with Werner was running behind and Mount backing behind them. Those moments won us a CL and were otherwise ephemeral

 

[hatterson]

Pretty much.

I suppose AWB for Dalot might also be a possible adjustment.

But AWB, Reguilon, Rashford and VdB are the only full senior players on the bench. Reguilon is obviously a backup and VdB is just a body and is leaving on loan as soon as the transfer window opens.

 

[cgf]

Wirtz only played 9 games the last season Havertz was there?

Yeah, it was only for a couple of months but during that time Kai reached a new level above even that of the previous year...when he had had that 17 goal season. Before Flo broke into the team Kai played as a 10.

 

[hatterson]

So far this game has been almost exactly like I expected. United defending deep and compact and getting generally overrun with very little ability to play out in a controlled manner due to Liverpool's pressure.

 

[cgf]

And the moments that he worked at Chelsea were when it clicked with Werner was running behind and Mount backing behind them. Those moments won us a CL and were otherwise ephemeral

Bingo. If you guys could've convinced Leverkusen to take Mount+100M for Wirtz then & there...and been able to get someone like Nkunku earlier...things could've gone very differently during Kai's Chelsea stint and that CL run may not have been such an outlier.

 

[hatterson]

Nunez is an idiot

As clear a foul as you'll ever see and then he complains about it long enough to get himself booked and then keeps complaining.

 

[bluesfan94]

He had 5 in 5 at one point at Chelsea.

Got it. So because he sucked at Chelsea, that he looked good before and now is irrelevant?

 

[bluesfan94]

Haevertz scores at a 3.4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Chelsea and he's trash. He scores at a 4 goal per 1000 minute pace at Arsenal and he's back to being elite.

Yea that makes sense. That's a 2 goal difference in pace over an entire season.

Anyway, I have to hear all about how elite Cole Palmer is when he's scoring at a 2.07 non-penalty goal per 1000 minute pace

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Bingo. If you guys could've convinced Leverkusen to take Mount+100M for Wirtz then & there...and been able to get someone like Nkunku earlier...things could've gone very differently during Kai's Chelsea stint and that CL run may not have been such an outlier.

I mean, to be blunt with it, the CL run was an outlier because Russia invaded Ukraine and I'm not sure Florian Wirtz - for all his glories - could've prevented such a thing.

 

[Blender]

Anyway, I have to hear all about how elite Cole Palmer is when he's scoring at a 2.07 non-penalty goal per 1000 minute pace

Palmer is playing a different role, I don't think anyone expected him to score as much. Still, he's doing well in comparison.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

What a boring game.

 

[al secord]

Hojlund is getting his steps in, at least.