Ellis contract and Jake Gardiner

[Morgs]

Referring to the NMC for Marleau and the NTC for Zaitsev.

Always forget about those pesky things. Marleau you're right.

Zaitsev doesn't have one until next year, and it's only 10 teams he can say "no" to.

 

[ACC1224]

Always forget about those pesky things. Marleau you're right.

Zaitsev doesn't have one until next year, and it's only 10 teams he can say "no" to.

Which does limit the field somewhat.
He certainly wouldn't be impossible to move, although I'm not sure they would want to.

Marleau will be here for the duration of his contract.

 

[Morgs]

Hopefully Zaitsev's contract is one we won't want to move after the puck drops. He's already bounced back (statistically, at least) he just needs to carry it over into a new year in order for people to forget about the cluster**** that was his last season.

I'm obviously hopeful as well, but he went from being "relatively ok" in ridiculous minutes to "outright awful" in 2nd pairing minutes.

I want to see him with Dermott (if we can't acquire someone like Pysyk) because if he can turn Polak into a serviceable defenseman, he should be more than able to do the same to Zaitsev.

Which does limit the field somewhat.
He certainly wouldn't be impossible to move, although I'm not sure they would want to.

Marleau will be here for the duration of his contract.

That third year was dumb on day 1.

To me it's pretty easy when it comes to either extending Gardiner or trading Zaitsev.

 

[Duke Silver]

Toronto Maple Leafs Should Partner Rielly and Gardiner

Well Babs needs to look at their stats together, and re-evaluate.

Ian Tulloch with The Athletic has touched on the Rielly + Gardiner pairing suggestions as well, and the outcomes do look promising (although dated: the majority of their time spent together was during the Carlyle days... they've played a combined 170 mins together under Babs).

I just feel we need to be making our suggestions within the context of what the coach is actually going to do, and until I see differently I don't think Babs is going to throw Rielly over there.

 

[Trapper]

Trade the second best defenseman with no viable replacement.

I’m not saying trade him but letting him walk for free would be a terrible idea.

 

[DanM]

It's imperative they either re-sign him or trade him. None of this walking at the end of the year business

f*** YES!

Don't sit on your hands, with your thumbs up your ass, until he walks away for nothing.

 

[Morgs]

Ian Tulloch with The Athletic has touched on the Rielly + Gardiner pairing suggestions as well, and the outcomes do look promising (although dated: the majority of their time spent together was during the Carlyle days... they've played a combined 170 mins together under Babs).

I just feel we need to be making our suggestions within the context of what the coach is actually going to do, and until I see differently I don't think Babs is going to do throw Rielly over there.

Yeah, I couldn't find that article for some reason.

I think with the more analytically inclined Dubas at the helm (with the help of Leaf fans/media constantly picking and prodding) we could see it at the very least as an experiment (like getting Komarov off the Kadri line). I wouldn't be opposed to waiting until mid-season to make a decision on Gards (as long as we don't let him walk), especially if Babcock let's them at least try.

 

[Duke Silver]

Zaitsev, Marleau, Brown should all be relatively easy to move contracts.

Marleau: will stay.

Zaitsev: We're going to subtract MORE right-handed defensive talent to keep Gardiner? That's a backwards step.

Brown: We could stomach this considering our depth at RW. But again, I don't think it's enough salary going out the door.

 

[Morgs]

Marleau: will stay.

Zaitsev: We're going to subtract MORE right-handed defensive talent to keep Gardiner? That's a backwards step.

Brown: We could stomach this considering our depth at RW. But again, I don't think it's enough salary going out the door.

1. Yup.
2. If he plays anything like he did last year, it's not a backwards step.
3. It might not be enough, but it's a start.

 

[rent free]

Zaitsev, Marleau, Brown should all be relatively easy to move contracts.

only brown will be relatively easy to move. the other two will not

 

[Duke Silver]

1. Yup.
2. If he plays anything like he did last year, it's not a backwards step.
3. It might not be enough, but it's a start.

2. Org-depth wise, it is, considering the other present options.

 

[Morgs]

2. Org-depth wise, it is, considering the other present options.

Meh. Until I see Zaitsev's improvement, I think Carrick should be starting the season beside Dermott on the 2nd pairing.

 

[Duke Silver]

Meh. Until I see Zaitsev's improvement, I think Carrick should be starting the season beside Dermott on the 2nd pairing.

Again, do you see that happening with Babs behind the bench?

I feel you're over-estimating Dubas' influence on coaching decisions.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Not 100% sure but with Horton on the books the tag rule may be an issue if we wanted to extend all 3 of Gardiner, Matthews, and Marner this offseason. Sounds like a Marner extension may not be in the cards yet so it might not matter but if management is pushing for the big 3 to all sign this offseason then the tag rule which doesn't care for LTIR might block you from signing Gardiner until next offseason.

Edit: quick look and Gards at 6, Nylander at 6.5, Marner at 7, Matthews at 11 you do manage to stay under the tag rule. Only having 10 guys signed for 2019/20 right now helps in that regard. May not be a real issue after all.

 

[Duke Silver]

Not 100% sure but with Horton on the books the tag rule may be an issue if we wanted to extend all 3 of Gardiner, Matthews, and Marner this offseason. Sounds like a Marner extension may not be in the cards yet so it might not matter but if management is pushing for the big 3 to all sign this offseason then the tag rule which doesn't care for LTIR might block you from signing Gardiner until next offseason.

First I've heard of anything like this. Could you elaborate?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Those advocating for us to sign Gardiner to around $6m per year.... how does this work with the 19-20 cap? Assuming it goes up by say $2m to $81.5m?

Because I can't make it work.

If the cap only goes up that high, you end up losing a Brown next year. (Much better to lose your #4RW than your #2D.)

The expansion draft might not even be until after 19-20.

The cap overage will also be more than Brown's salary.

Here's what I foresee:

• Looming cap issues in 19-20
• We CAN get the Big 3 signed, but not Big 3 + Gardiner
• A big gap on the right side that will continue unaddressed if we sign Gardiner
• A suitable replacement on the left side (Dermott) who will continue to be under-utilized in a 3rd-pairing role if we sign Gardiner
• Gardiner turns 29 before 19-20 and a 6-year deal would take him to 35.

Agreed with the exception of Marleau and Zaitsev.

Referring to the NMC for Marleau and the NTC for Zaitsev.

From what I have surmised, we can either lose Gardiner or Brown to possibly make the cap work in 19/20. So, were saying the cap could be an issue in 19/20. Seems different than what has been said many times before i.e., we have no cap issues.

 

[Morgs]

Again, do you see that happening with Babs behind the bench?

I feel you're over-estimating Dubas' influence on coaching decisions.

I don't see it happenig either.

Doesn't mean Dubas can't start taking away Babs' toys.

 

[IBeL34f]

I'm obviously hopeful as well, but he went from being "relatively ok" in ridiculous minutes to "outright awful" in 2nd pairing minutes.

I want to see him with Dermott (if we can't acquire someone like Pysyk) because if he can turn Polak into a serviceable defenseman, he should be more than able to do the same to Zaitsev.

Well, his concussion, broken foot, brutal flu, and newborn child may have had a little something to do with his falling off a cliff last year. Given how he returned to form towards the end of the season and into the World Championship, people should be feeling pretty decent that he'll return to his rookie season form as a bare minimum.

I agree that Dermott would likely be a solid partner for him, and think Hainsey could potentially be a good fit for him as well.

 

[IPS]

Agreed, but unless we're spending Nylander/Marner I find it tough to believe a legit top-pairing guy is going to fall in our laps.

I'd much prefer to see what Gardiner-Rielly can do on the top pair, and go from there.

A Gardiner-Rielly pairing would be an odd one. They both basically do the same thing.

 

[Morgs]

A Gardiner-Rielly pairing would be an odd one. They both basically do the same thing.

Dominate possession?

Well, his concussion, broken foot, brutal flu, and newborn child may have had a little something to do with his falling off a cliff last year. Given how he returned to form towards the end of the season and into the World Championship, people should be feeling pretty decent that he'll return to his rookie season form as a bare minimum.

I agree that Dermott would likely be a solid partner for him, and think Hainsey could potentially be a good fit for him as well.

I need to see it before I believe it.

 

[IBeL34f]

From what I have surmised, we can either lose Gardiner or Brown to possibly make the cap work in 19/20. So, were saying the cap could be an issue in 19/20. Seems different than what has been said many times before i.e., we have no cap issues.

The only quote people should be providing of mine with regards to the 2019/20 cap is that we can't determine what kinds of cap issues we might have until we know what the cap will actually look like next year. If it goes up to $83/84M next year, then we don't have any cap issues.

Any freaking out is certainly premature at this point.

 

[IBeL34f]

Dominate possession?



I need to see it before I believe it.

We have been seeing it - Since March 1st, he's been playing the best hockey of his short career.

 

[wc17]

Its awesome how polarizing Jake Gardiner is amongs the fan base!

I think the most likely outcome is they keep Gardiner, play Dermott in more and more situations to see if he can take his spot next season...and if he can we'll move on from Gardiner at the end of the season.

I cant see them trading Gardiner for picks and prospects, only to turn around and try to find another 2nd pairing dman for those prospects and picks. Considering I assume both Babs and Dubas are fans of his...I can see them using him as an own rental, trying to bolster up the D at the deadline if they need it (they most likely will)...and letting him walk if they cant get him signed.

EDIT: I would LOVE for them to try a Gardiner/Rielly pairing! JUST TRY, it cant hurt for 15-20 games...this team is going to be able to win regular season games pretty easily even if this thing doesnt work to perfection!

 

[Duke Silver]

From what I have surmised, we can either lose Gardiner or Brown to possibly make the cap work in 19/20. So, were saying the cap could be an issue in 19/20. Seems different than what has been said many times before i.e., we have no cap issues.

We have no cap issues when it comes to signing the Big 3 (for approx. $25-26m). Re-signing Gardiner is where we start to run into problems.

 

[Morgs]

We have been seeing it - Since March 1st, he's been playing the best hockey of his short career.

Yup, but it's the smallest sample size of his career (other than playoffs).

If we can get that Zaitsev, I'd love to see:

Gardiner/Dermott - Rielly
Gardiner/Dermott - Zaitsev
LD - Carrick

If we can't, I would want to see:

Gardiner/Dermott - Rielly
Gardiner/Dermott - Carrick
Marincin - Zaitsev