TSN: Elite Speculation from Bob Mackenzie re: The Leafs

[Menzinger]

I seriously, do not get the Michalek, Greening, Laich hate, other than the fact that they aren't our babies. I bet you anything that Laich will be offered another contract with the Leafs (just at fewer cap hits).

They're all average to below average hockey players at this point in their careers. That's not hate - they were all cap dumps for good reason.

I'd rather watch the Leafs own prospects get heir opportunity - the whole point is to build from within. Leafs need to see what they have with their own players.

The more NHL ready prospects the Leafs keep down this season, they'll have twice as many guys looking for jobs next season.

 

[Bluelines]

Grievance against what? The Leafs are obligated to pay Lupul and that's where it ends.

If there are incentives in his contract when he hits certain milestones, he can argue that the Leafs are intentionally creating an environment where he can not reasonable hit those milestones.

Not saying that he would do that but it is one scenario that I can think of that he would have a case for a grievance.

Now if they let him play a few weeks/months and he stinks and then they scratch him, that is a different story, they gave him a chance and he didn't perform.

 

[Daisy Jane]

They're all average to below average hockey players at this point in their careers. That's not hate - they were all cap dumps for good reason.

I'd rather watch the Leafs own prospects get heir opportunity - the whole point is to build from within. Leafs need to see what they have with their own players.

The more NHL ready prospects the Leafs keep down this season, they'll have twice as many guys looking for jobs next season.

some of them are a cap dump simply due to the amount of money they make - not because they flat out suck. Not every player on the leafs will be developed/drafted by the Leafs. NO team can claim that. we also need veteran players on the team who has been there and done that and can help them do what they are doing that (especially those who has been through a rebuild process like that - see Laich).

Quite frankly there isn't a huge rush to have everyone up now. keep them hungry and chasing the carrot, and let them focus for next year. what is the harm. the Leafs aren't going anywhere. those veterans shouldn't be guaranteed jobs, but neither should any rookies. hence. competition. and the fact of the matter is - it's not all about goal production, but also goal prevention, and other things that you want to eb able to trust the rookie to do which they may not be able to accomplish that someone say Laich would be able to.

 

[Menzinger]

some of them are a cap dump simply due to the amount of money they make - not because they flat out suck. Not every player on the leafs will be developed/drafted by the Leafs. NO team can claim that. we also need veteran players on the team who has been there and done that and can help them do what they are doing that (especially those who has been through a rebuild process like that - see Laich).

Quite frankly there isn't a huge rush to have everyone up now. keep them hungry and chasing the carrot, and let them focus for next year. what is the harm. the Leafs aren't going anywhere. those veterans shouldn't be guaranteed jobs, but neither should any rookies. hence. competition. and the fact of the matter is - it's not all about goal production, but also goal prevention, and other things that you want to eb able to trust the rookie to do which they may not be able to accomplish that someone say Laich would be able to.

Fair enough - I dont see much I'd like to keep around with the current vets: wasn't overly impressed with any of them aside from Greening.

I'd say let the kids have a chance to win jobs - no guaranteed spots for anyone (though Marner's situation makes that a bit more complicated).

I'll be a happy man though to see Laich/Greening/Michalek traded or waived because they lost a spot to a younger guy though. I'm sick of cheering for mediocre players.

 

[thewave]

I just wanted to be a part of possibly the most hilariously titled threads ever. Elite speculation. That's some funny stuff right there. Bob is a pretty smart guy, I will give him that.

 

[Darkside Blue]

I just wanted to be a part of possibly the most hilariously titled threads ever. Elite speculation. That's some funny stuff right there. Bob is a pretty smart guy, I will give him that.

Would you say it's an elite hilariously titled thread?

 

[Buds17]

I'd like to see as many of the rookies with the Leafs as much as possible, but understand that might be scattered throughout the season. If/when injuries occur, have them be the first callups. If Lou can offload some of the vet cap/roster logjam easily enough, great. If not, I can live with them (Sosh, Hyman, Brown) not being here from the get go.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Fair enough - I dont see much I'd like to keep around with the current vets: wasn't overly impressed with any of them aside from Greening.

I'd say let the kids have a chance to win jobs - no guaranteed spots for anyone (though Marner's situation makes that a bit more complicated).

I'll be a happy man though to see Laich/Greening/Michalek traded or waived because they lost a spot to a younger guy though. I'm sick of cheering for mediocre players.

every team has mediocre players. even when we're a cup contender we're going to have mediocre players.

i don't know i just find it frustrating that people want to make sure we don't mimic rebuilds that totally gave the reigns to the young kids (even if they 'earn' it at camp) but they don't want to keep any of the players that HELP the Leafs NOT do that.

we need older players. who can perform for the most part. (Michalek/Laich can do that, again, their glitches is that they are just overpaid (and injury prone for Michalek). we still need our younger players to have buffers (internally).

i don't think we need to be "impressed" by Laich but he's not a detriment either. and he helps with the PK, etc, he's been through the trenches, and he's a support. again. it wouldn't surprise me if they bring him back next year just at a lower contract.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

The leafs may be changing their name to team NorthAmerica according to Mckenzie

 

[darrylsittler27]

Vets can sit Bob.

This isn't elite anything. The ones who are good enough now will play and some of those vets can sit (Lupul,Greening,Michalek) once they clear waivers. Certain guys may be ready Hyman,Sosh,Leivo. But Marner, Brown are not locks. Plus there will be injuries and also Lou may package in a trade some of these guys who are close. Leivo may be NHL ready but that doesn't mean with Toronto.

To me this is just boredom, stretching for a story.

 

[Leafs87]

If Lupul is ready he plays.

When he gets hurt, Brown will come in.

I love how with Lupul it's simply a when not an if on him getting injured

What a waste of talent

 

[Menzinger]

every team has mediocre players. even when we're a cup contender we're going to have mediocre players.

i don't know i just find it frustrating that people want to make sure we don't mimic rebuilds that totally gave the reigns to the young kids (even if they 'earn' it at camp) but they don't want to keep any of the players that HELP the Leafs NOT do that.

we need older players. who can perform for the most part. (Michalek/Laich can do that, again, their glitches is that they are just overpaid (and injury prone for Michalek). we still need our younger players to have buffers (internally).

i don't think we need to be "impressed" by Laich but he's not a detriment either. and he helps with the PK, etc, he's been through the trenches, and he's a support. again. it wouldn't surprise me if they bring him back next year just at a lower contract.

I don't think Laich/Michaelek are the only things standing between the Leafs and turning into the Oilers 2.0. I'd also challenge the entire narrative too that other rebuilds flopped because they let too many kids play - ie the Oilers had worse overall drafting and player development than the Leafs - Easy for a rebuild to flop if your team is incapable of drafting a defensemen

And even if they waived those guys they'd still have plenty of vets: Leo, Bozak, Polak, JVR, even guys like Gardiner, ect are well past the stage of being rookies.

 

[thewave]

Would you say it's an elite hilariously titled thread?

This is a game changer thread Darkside. This is the dawn of a new era for thread titles, where the use of just Elite will no longer suffice in describing prospects etc. We're moving into Ultra Elite type territory now.

 

[-DeMo-]

If there are incentives in his contract when he hits certain milestones, he can argue that the Leafs are intentionally creating an environment where he can not reasonable hit those milestones.

Not saying that he would do that but it is one scenario that I can think of that he would have a case for a grievance.

Now if they let him play a few weeks/months and he stinks and then they scratch him, that is a different story, they gave him a chance and he didn't perform.

Lupul wasn't eligible for performance bonuses when he signed his contract. and you can't just put anyone you want on the LTIR they need to actually be injuried or you would see all kinds of teams doing it instead of trading away players like Teuvo to get rid of a bad contract like Bickel's.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't think Laich/Michaelek are the only things standing between the Leafs and turning into the Oilers 2.0. I'd also challenge the entire narrative too that other rebuilds flopped because they let too many kids play - ie the Oilers had worse overall drafting and player development than the Leafs - Easy for a rebuild to flop if your team is incapable of drafting a defensemen

And even if they waived those guys they'd still have plenty of vets: Leo, Bozak, Polak, JVR, even guys like Gardiner, ect are well past the stage of being rookies.

Vets over the age of 30?
Vets who have been through a multitude of playoff battles?
etc, etc?

not all of those players will be around, Leo - even though he's older, hasn't been through 1/2 the stuff other vets had in the NHL.

i would rather have a bit more overripe prospects with a mix of all types of veterans and we're a great team for it, vs. having my appetite whetted to see a younger player beat out someone medicore in the early vestiages of a rebuild.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I seriously, do not get the Michalek, Greening, Laich hate, other than the fact that they aren't our babies. I bet you anything that Laich will be offered another contract with the Leafs (just at fewer cap hits).

Greening produced at a 40 point pace and had good possession stats. Definitely room for him.

Laich is a good vet, you can definitely keep him around as a 13th forward/locker room presence.

No need for Michalek imo.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Greening produced at a 40 point pace and had good possession stats. Definitely room for him.

Laich is a good vet, you can definitely keep him around as a 13th forward/locker room presence.

No need for Michalek imo.

I agree. on both. like i know we had a sens fan come in and say Greening wasn't so hot and maybe that will be the case but i'm willing to give ANYONE a second chance.

I see Michalek as a walking draft pick (ditto Polak).

Laich i see what they want Robidas to have been - locker room presence (and he is really walking that party line) AND he can still produce. his glitch is his contract is gross. come this season (even if we trade him) knock that by 2 million and all of a sudden he's an afforrdable piece to have on the roster.

 

[Menzinger]

Greening brings the most on ice value - see him being a good 12/13th forward then flipped later on.

I'd rather Laich bring his vet presence to teach the kids in the Marlies with his experience.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I agree. on both. like i know we had a sens fan come in and say Greening wasn't so hot and maybe that will be the case but i'm willing to give ANYONE a second chance.

I see Michalek as a walking draft pick (ditto Polak).

Laich i see what they want Robidas to have been - locker room presence (and he is really walking that party line) AND he can still produce. his glitch is his contract is gross. come this season (even if we trade him) knock that by 2 million and all of a sudden he's an afforrdable piece to have on the roster.

Greening was terrible with Ottawa but he was good with us so I am down for keeping him if his play warrants it.

I wouldn't want to hold back a guy like Brown just to keep Michalek around and get a 3rd-5th, Brown playing in the NHL if he's ready more then another draft pick imo.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I agree. on both. like i know we had a sens fan come in and say Greening wasn't so hot and maybe that will be the case but i'm willing to give ANYONE a second chance.

I see Michalek as a walking draft pick (ditto Polak).

Laich i see what they want Robidas to have been - locker room presence (and he is really walking that party line) AND he can still produce. his glitch is his contract is gross. come this season (even if we trade him) knock that by 2 million and all of a sudden he's an afforrdable piece to have on the roster.

I thought he was pretty good for the time he spent here....

 

[al secord]

I seriously, do not get the Michalek, Greening, Laich hate, other than the fact that they aren't our babies. I bet you anything that Laich will be offered another contract with the Leafs (just at fewer cap hits).

Michalek is a Czech 1st liner. But to some of our fans he isn't good enough to crack the top 9 on a last place NHL roster.

 

[al secord]

They're all average to below average hockey players at this point in their careers. That's not hate - they were all cap dumps for good reason.

I'd rather watch the Leafs own prospects get heir opportunity - the whole point is to build from within. Leafs need to see what they have with their own players.

The more NHL ready prospects the Leafs keep down this season, they'll have twice as many guys looking for jobs next season.

Michalek was a cap dump to a low budget team that couldn't afford him and Phaneuf on the same team. Also, Lou might be a big fan.

 

[Dustin]

Vets over the age of 30?
Vets who have been through a multitude of playoff battles?
etc, etc?

not all of those players will be around, Leo - even though he's older, hasn't been through 1/2 the stuff other vets had in the NHL.

i would rather have a bit more overripe prospects with a mix of all types of veterans and we're a great team for it, vs. having my appetite whetted to see a younger player beat out someone medicore in the early vestiages of a rebuild.

I don't have a hate on for any of those players. It's just a numbers game though

Kadri
JVR
Bozak
Komarov
Lupul
Martin
Matthews
Nylander

That's 8 spots (7 without Lupul) that are essentially filled. While I think Laich and Michalek will also be there you still want to see some players develop onto the big club. The last thing you want is to bring up 5 or 6 guys in one year.

Players such as....
Marner
Brown
Leipsec
Leivo
Soshnikov
Hyman
Rychel
Kapanen

These players are also going to want to get a taste of NHL play time over the next 2 years.

This is not even including players like Froese, Holland, Greening and more that I have left off or forgotten.

It will be a tough spot over the next couple of years for the Leafs to figure out who is ready and who needs to be shipped out.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I thought he was pretty good for the time he spent here....

Oh I do too. but i mean, the Sens fan said longer term it might not stick. (and to be fair, as he has seen him more than I, i'll take his word but like I said i' willing to give him a second chance here. maybe he is a better fit here, that Babcock can motivate him more, i dunno. it won't bug me).

Like we're REBUILDING. not everyone in the rebuild are going to be Leafs property. we need to get that out of our head right quick.

Michalek is a Czech 1st liner. But to some of our fans he isn't good enough to crack the top 9 on a last place NHL roster.

I know, but i think he was the player who wanted to be flipped to a better team. apprently Lou had to talk to him into coming here.

Michalek was a cap dump to a low budget team that couldn't afford him and Phaneuf on the same team. Also, Lou might be a big fan.

exactly.

 

[A4T1L6]

I can easily see Michalek and Laich being on the opening day roster, and if Lupul is 100%, there is no reason not to play him imo.