Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2020

[Stoneman89]

How many yards do you think Ellingson will get in a 6 game season?

436

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

 

[rboomercat90]

I find it interesting that when a topic like this comes up that deals with virtue signaling and political correctness, that posters I have never heard of or rarely post come on en masse and stay on relentlessly to make sure their point is heard loud and clear.

Any thread with polarizing opinions. Brings back memories of the arena debates. At least the weather thread hasn’t been taken over yet by these people we’ve never heard from before.

 

[yukoner88]

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round

 

[Beerfish]

All 9 teams and the maritimes team when it comes into being should be called the Rough riders.

 

[DaGap]

Oh Hey Its Tootoo, Pretty much missed the lst time Eskimos went through it

 

[PBandJ]

An intelligent, nuanced response.

 

[joestevens29]

All 9 teams and the maritimes team when it comes into being should be called the Rough riders.

I don't know I remember when I was a kid in gas station restrooms seeing "Rough Rider" condoms.

Seems like that could fall under the metoo issue.

 

[Stoneman89]

As Tootoo says, "Consult the Inuit people and see how they feel about it" And the Eskimos did that. Thoroughly.

Should be end of discussion.

 

[Stoneman89]

Any thread with polarizing opinions. Brings back memories of the arena debates. At least the weather thread hasn’t been taken over yet by these people we’ve never heard from before.

Anything but polarizing. He brings clarity to the debate. As per the majority of the Inuit today, the name is not a big deal. But for Obed, and a few white people that have nothing better to do, it is. But majority should rule.

 

[CycloneSweep]

As Tootoo says, "Consult the Inuit people and see how they feel about it" And the Eskimos did that. Thoroughly.

Should be end of discussion.

Note: this is not my opinion, I believe the team on this

I think the issue has been is you have the org saying "Look we did the research and talked to them, they got no issues" To some it looks like someone saying don't worry it's not a problem, but no one is hearing from the Inuk people.

I think there is 2 simple solutions.

1. Just change the name, this argument may never go away and it's exhausting. From a business decision it's good, it creates good press for the most part and doesn't constantly have the bad pr about the name

2. Release a statement doing what Tootoo said. Talk about why the team chose the Eskimo name, mention that it was picked out of respect for the people. Then have a representative of the Inuk. Maybe a Chief or public official (I don't know how their group functions) coming out and saying that they do not find offense to it. If what the team is saying it's true, this one should be easy to accomplish.

 

[MoontoScott]

Friesen's self righteous article in the Sun today is laughable:

-He makes absolutely no mention of the fact that if Bel-Air had a problem with the name then they didn't have to enter into the sponsorship agreement in the first place. Instead he portrays the insurance company as heroes and the EE as thoughtless ingrates who never seek public consultation.

-No mention of the fact that the Esks did far more in terms of engaging the community than Snyder and the Redskins did when they came under political pressure. Snyder basically said "go, get stuffed" while the Esks went to considerable effort to listen to public opinion.

But of course Friesen didn't like the answer the club came up with so he takes a run at them, at a time when the future of the CFL is very much in doubt. In football its called "piling on."

 

[CycloneSweep]

Friesen's self righteous article in the Sun today is laughable:

-He makes absolutely no mention of the fact that if Bel-Air had a problem with the name then they didn't have to enter into the sponsorship agreement in the first place. Instead he portrays the insurance company as heroes and the EE as thoughtless ingrates who never seek public consultation.

-No mention of the fact that the Esks did far more in terms of engaging the community than Snyder and the Redskins did when they came under political pressure. Snyder basically said "go, get stuffed" while the Esks went to considerable effort to listen to public opinion.

But of course Friesen didn't like the answer the club came up with so he takes a run at them, at a time when the future of the CFL is very much in doubt. In football its called "piling on."

It's rare we agree.

Belair is just doing this to try and win social brownie points. I get when companies pull when a team or something decides to do something the advertiser doesn't like and then pulls out (like what is happening with facebook) but when they knew the whole time, go in fine and then when they think they can earn some good will (Belair is a shit company period) is pretty shitty. They clearly don't actually care.

 

[bone]

Anything but polarizing. He brings clarity to the debate. As per the majority of the Inuit today, the name is not a big deal. But for Obed, and a few white people that have nothing better to do, it is. But majority should rule.

See I read his comments differently. To me, his note suggests to me that it may be a generational matter. His parents and his generation don't have much of an issue and don't care as much, but more of the younger generation is taking issue to it which suggest objections to the name will only grow in time.

He also suggested they do more than just ask the Inuit, he suggested looking at where the name came from and be honest about it. That's an interesting way of putting it. Knowing we're the most northern city with a team, perhaps there was an embracement of prejudice with no ill intent, but prejudice still the same.

I don't envy the decision makers on this as they are damned if they do or damned if they don't, but ultimately at some point it is going to happen. Unfortunately, this may be terrible timing to try and rebrand as the league is at its lowest point in history.

 

[bone]

It's rare we agree.

Belair is just doing this to try and win social brownie points. I get when companies pull when a team or something decides to do something the advertiser doesn't like and then pulls out (like what is happening with facebook) but when they knew the whole time, go in fine and then when they think they can earn some good will (Belair is a shit company period) is pretty shitty. They clearly don't actually care.

100%. I'm okay with a name change, I'm not okay with an existing sponsor getting all high and mighty after years of benefiting from that team name.

Sponsors while important should have no say in matters beyond when or how their product is advertised, particularly things that were already in place prior to the relationship and that they likely benefitted from.

My hope that if the Esks change their name they immediately dismiss Belair and take on one of their competition as a sponsor and let them take the good publicity from it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

See I read his comments differently. To me, his note suggests to me that it may be a generational matter. His parents and his generation don't have much of an issue and don't care as much, but more of the younger generation is taking issue to it which suggest objections to the name will only grow in time.

He also suggested they do more than just ask the Inuit, he suggested looking at where the name came from and be honest about it. That's an interesting way of putting it. Knowing we're the most northern city with a team, perhaps there was an embracement of prejudice with no ill intent, but prejudice still the same.

I don't envy the decision makers on this as they are damned if they do or damned if they don't, but ultimately at some point it is going to happen. Unfortunately, this may be terrible timing to try and rebrand as the league is at its lowest point in history.

The bolded is unfairly worded. It is not a matter of older generations "not caring" but perhaps caring more about harmony, working together, getting along, not creating division, not creating feelings that everything is prejudice.

What worries me is for centuries forefathers worked to get to the point where Canada was seen as more of a harmonious melting pot. Now Canada seems to be something else. Is this progress?

My Earliest connections reading about the Eskimos, statements going back to the 50's that were still percolating in the press, the Eskimos name was due to Edmonton being the northernmost city in a northern country and a salute to the Eskimos who were respected for being able to find ways to live in a harsh, barren, limited landscape. In context this was at a time when award winning authors from Pierre Berton, to Farley Mowat, were respectfully depicting the North and its denizens. I grew up on those books.

 

[bone]

The bolded is unfairly worded. It is not a matter of older generations "not caring" but perhaps caring more about harmony, working together, getting along, not creating division, not creating feelings that everything is prejudice.

What worries me is for centuries forefathers worked to get to the point where Canada was seen as more of a harmonious melting pot. Now Canada seems to be something else. Is this progress?

My Earliest connections reading about the Eskimos, statements going back to the 50's that were still percolating in the press, the Eskimos name was due to Edmonton being the northernmost city in a northern country and a salute to the Eskimos who were respected for being able to find ways to live in a harsh, barren, limited landscape. In context this was at a time when award winning authors from Pierre Berton, to Farley Mowat, were respectfully depicting the North and its denizens. I grew up on those books.

Good points. I agree, "not caring" was poor choice of words.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Friesen's self righteous article in the Sun today is laughable:

-He makes absolutely no mention of the fact that if Bel-Air had a problem with the name then they didn't have to enter into the sponsorship agreement in the first place. Instead he portrays the insurance company as heroes and the EE as thoughtless ingrates who never seek public consultation.

-No mention of the fact that the Esks did far more in terms of engaging the community than Snyder and the Redskins did when they came under political pressure. Snyder basically said "go, get stuffed" while the Esks went to considerable effort to listen to public opinion.

But of course Friesen didn't like the answer the club came up with so he takes a run at them, at a time when the future of the CFL is very much in doubt. In football its called "piling on."

I specifically raised the bolded yesterday. Its simply convenience for belair to be engaging this presently. Will it backfire?

Odd move for an insurance company as its generally older people or at least middle aged that have much to insure. The backlash can be most felt by those demographics taking umbrage. The age demographic that most supports these virtue movements are younger. Who don't possess as much insurance.


What I believe is that if left in charge Len Rhodes was eventually going to cave on the name change thing and thus the petitioning of "empire" in advertising, print, graphics etc. He was really trying to make empire happen. One of the audits was not too kind on the money he spent trying to make "empire" happen.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The bolded is unfairly worded. It is not a matter of older generations "not caring" but perhaps caring more about harmony, working together, getting along, not creating division, not creating feelings that everything is prejudice.

What worries me is for centuries forefathers worked to get to the point where Canada was seen as more of a harmonious melting pot. Now Canada seems to be something else. Is this progress?

My Earliest connections reading about the Eskimos, statements going back to the 50's that were still percolating in the press, the Eskimos name was due to Edmonton being the northernmost city in a northern country and a salute to the Eskimos who were respected for being able to find ways to live in a harsh, barren, limited landscape. In context this was at a time when award winning authors from Pierre Berton, to Farley Mowat, were respectfully depicting the North and its denizens. I grew up on those books.

What I am about to say isn't a fact or anything but an observation I've seen and things indigenous friends of mine have told me.

Some of the older generations were absolutely bugged by the racism out against them, the prejudice unfairly put upon them. Their way of dealing with it was trying to work toward forgiving and moving on. Work toward harmony and trying to promote togetherness. However all the while deep down they were angry and hurt and bitter. The younger newer generation sees this. They see the turning the other cheek and just taking the verbal abuse and prejudice has led to their parents and grandparents being angry and defeated. So the new generation has decided that enough is enough and they want to fight for change because what they were doing, wasn't working. The younger generation sees now as the best time because with the internet and social media it's easier to fight together than it has ever been.

I won't get into if how they are fighting for change is right or wrong. I will say that the older generation has definitely been hurt by a lot of these things, but have stayed quiet and silent because that's how they felt the best way to deal with it.

You are right our forefathers fought to show Canada has a homogeneous melting pot, but in doing so ignored the injustices that were going on.

I know you aren't saying this part, I have heard the following though. "There is no racism in Canada, why is suddenly all this a problem.' it's not suddenly a problem, people are just speaking out about it

Now back to the Eskimos. We don't get to decide if it's offensive or not. We need to stop saying whether something is or isn't offensive. Only the Inuit can decide that in this case and if they say it's not (Which the Eskimos have said) then it's a solved issue.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What I am about to say isn't a fact or anything but an observation I've seen and things indigenous friends of mine have told me.

Some of the older generations were absolutely bugged by the racism out against them, the prejudice unfairly put upon them. Their way of dealing with it was trying to work toward forgiving and moving on. Work toward harmony and trying to promote togetherness. However all the while deep down they were angry and hurt and bitter. The younger newer generation sees this. They see the turning the other cheek and just taking the verbal abuse and prejudice has led to their parents and grandparents being angry and defeated. So the new generation has decided that enough is enough and they want to fight for change because what they were doing, wasn't working. The younger generation sees now as the best time because with the internet and social media it's easier to fight together than it has ever been.

I won't get into if how they are fighting for change is right or wrong. I will say that the older generation has definitely been hurt by a lot of these things, but have stayed quiet and silent because that's how they felt the best way to deal with it.

You are right our forefathers fought to show Canada has a homogeneous melting pot, but in doing so ignored the injustices that were going on.

I know you aren't saying this part, I have heard the following though. "There is no racism in Canada, why is suddenly all this a problem.' it's not suddenly a problem, people are just speaking out about it

Now back to the Eskimos. We don't get to decide if it's offensive or not. We need to stop saying whether something is or isn't offensive. Only the Inuit can decide that in this case and if they say it's not (Which the Eskimos have said) then it's a solved issue.

I'm older than you and have always lived in multicultural communities. I've known those older people, they've been my friends, my neighbors. It wasn't vocally expressed at the time. Perhaps it was felt at the time.

Regardless such proclamations as Canada is Racist, which have been unending and which get Virtue proclaimed by our Prime Minister don't service solutions, don't service harmony. They serve further division. The last comment is generally not well understood.

When people watch the news and the 10 news features contained in the broadcast are all virtue signalling people don't pay more attention, they might turn the channel. Thats a real danger. That we now have multiple political parties in this nation that operate primarily social justice platforms (everybody knows who they are) we know that the country is broken. That our political parties are feasting on division, and want to forecast it so much that they can make continual meal out of it.

The casting of Canada in racist light serves a purpose of reelection. To parties that are on that alter all the time.

What really saddens me in this social climate is that you walk down the street now and people of different ethnicities that used to say hi, wave, now ignore, look away, stay indoors more, not just due to the pandemic. We're being told we're so racist that its creating fear on the streets. Its creating unease. That's the saddest thing of all.

China yesterday proclaimed that Canada was a dangerous place with dangerous prejudices against Chinese people. Recommending that people do not travel there. The irony of which is stupendous. One believes such dogma at their peril, and really the peril, ultimately, of the concept of Canada.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm older than you and have always lived in multicultural communities. I've known those older people, they've been my friends, my neighbors. It wasn't vocally expressed at the time. Perhaps it was felt at the time.

Regardless such proclamations as Canada is Racist, which have been unending and which get Virtue proclaimed by our Prime Minister don't service solutions, don't service harmony. They serve further division. The last comment is generally not well understood.

When people watch the news and the 10 news features contained in the broadcast are all virtue signalling people don't pay more attention, they might turn the channel. Thats a real danger. That we now have multiple political parties in this nation that operate primarily social justice platforms (everybody knows who they are) we know that the country is broken. That our political parties are feasting on division, and want to forecast it so much that they can make continual meal out of it.

The casting of Canada in racist light serves a purpose of reelection. To parties that are on that alter all the time.

What really saddens me in this social climate is that you walk down the street now and people of different ethnicities that used to say hi, wave, now ignore, look away, stay indoors more, not just due to the pandemic. We're being told we're so racist that its creating fear on the streets. Its creating unease. That's the saddest thing of all.

China yesterday proclaimed that Canada was a dangerous place with dangerous prejudices against Chinese people. The irony of which is stupendous. One believes such dogma at their peril, and really the peril, ultimately, of Canada.

I absolutely do think people are taking it as too far.

Saying Canada is racist or that there is no racism in Canada is irresponsible of both parties. There is racism in Canada. There are some horrible things that have gone on recently or are still going on that SHOULD be addressed. Is Canada as a country racist? No. Does it have zero racial problems and everything is fine and dandy? Also no.

Canada needs a real center party. Both the Conservatives and Liberals are a joke.

 

[bellagiobob]

What I am about to say isn't a fact or anything but an observation I've seen and things indigenous friends of mine have told me.

Some of the older generations were absolutely bugged by the racism out against them, the prejudice unfairly put upon them. Their way of dealing with it was trying to work toward forgiving and moving on. Work toward harmony and trying to promote togetherness. However all the while deep down they were angry and hurt and bitter. The younger newer generation sees this. They see the turning the other cheek and just taking the verbal abuse and prejudice has led to their parents and grandparents being angry and defeated. So the new generation has decided that enough is enough and they want to fight for change because what they were doing, wasn't working. The younger generation sees now as the best time because with the internet and social media it's easier to fight together than it has ever been.

I won't get into if how they are fighting for change is right or wrong. I will say that the older generation has definitely been hurt by a lot of these things, but have stayed quiet and silent because that's how they felt the best way to deal with it.

You are right our forefathers fought to show Canada has a homogeneous melting pot, but in doing so ignored the injustices that were going on.

I know you aren't saying this part, I have heard the following though. "There is no racism in Canada, why is suddenly all this a problem.' it's not suddenly a problem, people are just speaking out about it

Now back to the Eskimos. We don't get to decide if it's offensive or not. We need to stop saying whether something is or isn't offensive. Only the Inuit can decide that in this case and if they say it's not (Which the Eskimos have said) then it's a solved issue.

While I agree that only the Inuit should be able to decide if the name is offensive to them, you will never get closure on this issue, as there will never be 100% agreement from them, one way or the other. The Eskimos could do 100 more focus groups, talk to leaders, and have what they feel is 90% consensus that the name isn’t offensive, but some of the 10% will periodically always keep it in the news, media will once again pick up on it, and those on social media with no horse in the race will cry for change. This issue will never go away without a name change. Tough call for the Esks.

 

[bone]

I absolutely do think people are taking it as too far.

Saying Canada is racist or that there is no racism in Canada is irresponsible of both parties. There is racism in Canada. There are some horrible things that have gone on recently or are still going on that SHOULD be addressed. Is Canada as a country racist? No. Does it have zero racial problems and everything is fine and dandy? Also no.

Canada needs a real center party. Both the Conservatives and Liberals are a joke.

I can't like this twice, so just have to reply.

I don't know why it has to be either Canada is totally racist or that racism doesn't exist.

I know for a fact it exists, but I do feel the majority are trying to get rid of it in some way.

Unfortunately right now isn't a good time for people with moderate opinions as the extremists on either side seem to be looking the moderates as the enemy.

There's no room for win-wins in today's society, it's win at all costs and try to humiliate your opposition in the process.

 

[Samus44]

Nailed it. This was my point, the people who we should be consulting and who should provide the impetus for change should be the people who could be offended not some knobs in suits at Belair direct looking for positive PR. Who are they to decide that they ought to be the voice of reason for the inuit people? This kind of action is indicitive of people that don't respect the rights of the inuit to speak on their own behalf. Asking for more robust consultation is fine, demanding a name change as if they're some kind of moral authority is ignorant. I always saw the name as being a positive reflection of the traits required of the inuit people, why do we need to assume its a bad thing? If the people it could offend find it offensive then change it, but dont do it because of some sanctimonious pricks with ulterior motives.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I can't like this twice, so just have to reply.

I don't know why it has to be either Canada is totally racist or that racism doesn't exist.

I know for a fact it exists, but I do feel the majority are trying to get rid of it in some way.

Unfortunately right now isn't a good time for people with moderate opinions as the extremists on either side seem to be looking the moderates as the enemy.

There's no room for win-wins in today's society, it's win at all costs and try to humiliate your opposition in the process.

Brilliant take on both political ideologies.

Its sad when Comedians became our modern day philosophers and our leaders the joke.



This video is almost 40 years old ffs. Nothing has changed.