Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2019

[guymez]

It may seem hard to believe, by this organization is proving to be remarkably tone-deaf when it comes to public/ticket holder sentiment. Bringing Maas back AGAIN proves this.

The CFL isn't like the other major leagues where teams can afford to largely ignore the desires of their fan base and ticket buyers, knowing that 8-figure cheques from TV deals and merchandising are already in the mail. Darryl Katz can let Lowe, MacTavish, Chiarelli, whoever run amok and not worry a lick about the financial viability of his organization. The CFL does not have this luxury. If thousands of season ticket holders are pissed off to the point that they will not renew tickets, and cite Rhodes and Maas as the reason, there really isn't even a choice to be made. They must be fired, end of story. For the Eskimos BOD to not understand this shows how far out of touch they really are. In a league where star players are pulling in $150,000/year, pissing away millions in ticket revenue is apparently not a concern to this collection of clowns.

I doubt any other organizations in the CFL would have allowed Maas to return after last year's Western Final, let alone come back again after following it up with one of the worst seasons in franchise history. Good heavens, Toronto fired Trestman less than 365 days after a Grey Cup win. Hamilton fired Kent Austin after 4 straight playoff appearances/two recent Grey Cup appearances. Saskatchewan fired Chamblin wihtin two years of a Grey Cup win. Winnipeg fired Lapolice just months after a Grey Cup appearance. Wally Buono has fired coaches left and right in BC despite making the playoffs practically every year. The ONLY team in the league that regularly gives coaches mulligans is this one. Maciocia had several. Reed had a couple. And now Maas is on his third mulligan. The Eskimos simply do not operate like a normal franchise.

Valid points.
The BoD seems to be motivated purely by gate receipts and advertising revenue. That seems to be their measure of how successful the team is doing. The gate receipts representing the reveal fan approval portion.
Gate receipts have not taken a major hit through all of the Maciocia/Reed years.
My hope is that the gate receipts take a major hit this coming season forcing the BoD to acknowledge that there is a problem.

 

[MoontoScott]

If you take a look at the slow downward trend in seat sales then there has already been a substantial hit. Someone published the stats on the site a few years ago but its down about 25% in the last decade and that is substantial.

 

[joestevens29]

It may seem hard to believe, by this organization is proving to be remarkably tone-deaf when it comes to public/ticket holder sentiment. Bringing Maas back AGAIN proves this.

The CFL isn't like the other major leagues where teams can afford to largely ignore the desires of their fan base and ticket buyers, knowing that 8-figure cheques from TV deals and merchandising are already in the mail. Darryl Katz can let Lowe, MacTavish, Chiarelli, whoever run amok and not worry a lick about the financial viability of his organization. The CFL does not have this luxury. If thousands of season ticket holders are pissed off to the point that they will not renew tickets, and cite Rhodes and Maas as the reason, there really isn't even a choice to be made. They must be fired, end of story. For the Eskimos BOD to not understand this shows how far out of touch they really are. In a league where star players are pulling in $150,000/year, pissing away millions in ticket revenue is apparently not a concern to this collection of clowns.

I doubt any other organizations in the CFL would have allowed Maas to return after last year's Western Final, let alone come back again after following it up with one of the worst seasons in franchise history. Good heavens, Toronto fired Trestman less than 365 days after a Grey Cup win. Hamilton fired Kent Austin after 4 straight playoff appearances/two recent Grey Cup appearances. Saskatchewan fired Chamblin wihtin two years of a Grey Cup win. Winnipeg fired Lapolice just months after a Grey Cup appearance. Wally Buono has fired coaches left and right in BC despite making the playoffs practically every year. The ONLY team in the league that regularly gives coaches mulligans is this one. Maciocia had several. Reed had a couple. And now Maas is on his third mulligan. The Eskimos simply do not operate like a normal franchise.

The problem is does the board really know how pissed off fans are?

How many people are actually making their voice heard?

Now if there were to be a rally at the Esks office that makes the news or some sort of petition showing how unhappy people are then maybe a change will happen.

As it stands now the board won't really know how bad things are until the end of next season.

 

[joestevens29]

If you take a look at the slow downward trend in seat sales then there has already been a substantial hit. Someone published the stats on the site a few years ago but its down about 25% in the last decade and that is substantial.

Bit off topic, but the Flyers were selling tickets to yesterday's game or the day before for as low as $6. Maybe if by week 5 or 6 that happens for the Esks it might change something.

 

[MoontoScott]

Bit off topic, but the Flyers were selling tickets to yesterday's game or the day before for as low as $6. Maybe if by week 5 or 6 that happens for the Esks it might change something.

Pro sports in general is way overpriced and the new generations coming up have more varied interests. This isn't something that plays out overnight but in 20 years how many people will be at some of these sporting events?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sporting and entertainment is getting pricier. That's why I adamantly questioned the wisdom of building new high priced arena when the kind of acts that could fill those places is steadily declining. Reality is its most dinosaur acts that are still filling arena/stadia and not much others.

Its straight up crazy how much hockey tickets cost. Its not sustainable in anything but boom times or with boom savings. But then again in hockey anyway arenas are leveraging corporate ticket options and buyers over individual ticket buyers but I wonder how long that fat of the land survives.

Reminds me of GM. Fire thousands of workers but you still got Managers, CEO's making millions that can spend ANYTHING on ANYTHING. But not many of the deep pockets exist.

 

[iCanada]

Pro sports in general is way overpriced and the new generations coming up have more varied interests. This isn't something that plays out overnight but in 20 years how many people will be at some of these sporting events?

As a relatively "well to do" millennial, its much less about varied interests than it is about enormous costs. Sport entertainment is unaffordable for the average person.

Median household income in Canada is only a hair over 70k. Say you put 10% of that into an rrsp, you're at 63k. You lose 35% of that to taxes. You're now at 41k take home. That's $3412 a month... rent on the average one bedroom apartment runs you $1250 in Edmonton. You need a phone and internet, that's 150. You need utilities, that's 300. You need to eat, that's 300 at minimum. You need a car or transportation, that's minimum 300 a month including gas, insurance, maintenance.... as a guy you can add an extra 200 bucks for insurance. You need clothes... on a budget you could likely stretch this down to ~150 a month including shoes and winter wear. You need a degree to flip burgers now a day's, so you've in all likelihood lost another 300 a month on student loan repayments.

Suddenly as a single fellow you're looking at just 400 to 600 bucks a month in disposable income after just meeting your basic needs assuming your benefits cover full dental and visioncare. Chop that number in half to save money for inevitable fiscal emergencies that life buries you with... Suddenly it looks quite difficult to spend 80 bucks on a janky ticket, 25 on food, and 25 on booze at an oilers game. You add a partner and maybe a kid into that equation and it just gets worse.

A booked in advance round trip flight to Hawaii from edmonton is the same price as taking an eligible bachelorette to an oilers game in the upper bowl... just... yikes.

The interest is there, it just isn't feasible for most people in their 20s. The disposable income isn't there.

 

[joestevens29]

As a relatively "well to do" millennial, its much less about varied interests than it is about enormous costs. Sport entertainment is unaffordable for the average person.

Median household income in Canada is only a hair over 70k. Say you put 10% of that into an rrsp, you're at 63k. You lose 35% of that to taxes. You're now at 41k take home. That's $3412 a month... rent on the average one bedroom apartment runs you $1250 in Edmonton. You need a phone and internet, that's 150. You need utilities, that's 300. You need to eat, that's 300 at minimum. You need a car or transportation, that's minimum 300 a month including gas, insurance, maintenance.... as a guy you can add an extra 200 bucks for insurance. You need clothes... on a budget you could likely stretch this down to ~150 a month including shoes and winter wear. You need a degree to flip burgers now a day's, so you've in all likelihood lost another 300 a month on student loan repayments.

Suddenly as a single fellow you're looking at just 400 to 600 bucks a month in disposable income after just meeting your basic needs assuming your benefits cover full dental and visioncare. Chop that number in half to save money for inevitable fiscal emergencies that life buries you with... Suddenly it looks quite difficult to spend 80 bucks on a janky ticket, 25 on food, and 25 on booze at an oilers game. You add a partner and maybe a kid into that equation and it just gets worse.

A booked in advance round trip flight to Hawaii from edmonton is the same price as taking an eligible bachelorette to an oilers game in the upper bowl... just... yikes.

The interest is there, it just isn't feasible for most people in their 20s. The disposable income isn't there.

The one thing missing with all your calculation is credit card depth. In theory they should only have what you are saying, but the spend more.

 

[PBandJ]

The one thing missing with all your calculation is credit card depth. In theory they should only have what you are saying, but the spend more.

OT, but I've learned that lesson the really hard way.

 

[MoontoScott]

As a relatively "well to do" millennial, its much less about varied interests than it is about enormous costs. Sport entertainment is unaffordable for the average person.

Median household income in Canada is only a hair over 70k. Say you put 10% of that into an rrsp, you're at 63k. You lose 35% of that to taxes. You're now at 41k take home. That's $3412 a month... rent on the average one bedroom apartment runs you $1250 in Edmonton. You need a phone and internet, that's 150. You need utilities, that's 300. You need to eat, that's 300 at minimum. You need a car or transportation, that's minimum 300 a month including gas, insurance, maintenance.... as a guy you can add an extra 200 bucks for insurance. You need clothes... on a budget you could likely stretch this down to ~150 a month including shoes and winter wear. You need a degree to flip burgers now a day's, so you've in all likelihood lost another 300 a month on student loan repayments.

Suddenly as a single fellow you're looking at just 400 to 600 bucks a month in disposable income after just meeting your basic needs assuming your benefits cover full dental and visioncare. Chop that number in half to save money for inevitable fiscal emergencies that life buries you with... Suddenly it looks quite difficult to spend 80 bucks on a janky ticket, 25 on food, and 25 on booze at an oilers game. You add a partner and maybe a kid into that equation and it just gets worse.

A booked in advance round trip flight to Hawaii from edmonton is the same price as taking an eligible bachelorette to an oilers game in the upper bowl... just... yikes.

The interest is there, it just isn't feasible for most people in their 20s. The disposable income isn't there.

I couldn't agree more with your statements here but its not just millennials, a lot of baby boomers my age can't afford it either. My wife and I have done pretty well (better lucky than good as I always say) but we simply refuse to pay the huge price for hockey tickets and for that matter the huge price for a lot of concert tickets.

 

[Gord]

The problem is does the board really know how pissed off fans are?

How many people are actually making their voice heard?

Now if there were to be a rally at the Esks office that makes the news or some sort of petition showing how unhappy people are then maybe a change will happen.

As it stands now the board won't really know how bad things are until the end of next season.

I'm really unhappy and also cancelled my seasons tickets after 17 years.
but I wouldn't participate in a rally. it would probably go as well as the one to fire MacT.

money talks. take out 3 seasons tickets along with booze and food sales, and that's a chunk of cash away from the team. won't take too many people like me before it's noticed on the bottom line. a quarter of the season, maybe?

they better hope they can con people into renewing their tickets before the CBA is done. Imagine how they'll tank if Reilly leaves. I bet you'd start seeing crowds down to 20,000-22,000

wonder if the esks count all the Sobey's tickets as paid attendance no matter if Sobey's can sell them all or not.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm really unhappy and also cancelled my seasons tickets after 17 years.
but I wouldn't participate in a rally. it would probably go as well as the one to fire MacT.

money talks. take out 3 seasons tickets along with booze and food sales, and that's a chunk of cash away from the team. won't take too many people like me before it's noticed on the bottom line. a quarter of the season, maybe?

they better hope they can con people into renewing their tickets before the CBA is done. Imagine how they'll tank if Reilly leaves. I bet you'd start seeing crowds down to 20,000-22,000

wonder if the esks count all the Sobey's tickets as paid attendance no matter if Sobey's can sell them all or not.

I never was a season ticket holder, but went to quite a few games for a 10 year span. The past 15 years seems like they've done their best to drive people away instead of bring people in.

Lot of it was friends and family not wanting to go as much anymore either due to starting families or the simple fact that they had a stretch where games were during the week. Now when you have a group of 20 where 75% of those people are hour and a half away, that doesn't work. They then took away CW's and tried to make it more family friendly, which I can get. At the end of the day they did real little to make it a family event and on top of that they lost people as for awhile they wouldn't even sell beer on that side of the stadium.

Add getting rid of that school program and there's yet another reason why some wouldn't come.

All this really did was push people to find other things to do. Not going to the football game this week because it's Wed/Thurs, then lets go to the lake. Slowly when games were on weekends most this people found that the lake was far more entertaining. And really not for that much more money.

Now on top of everything the team is in shambles. I won't bet against you on the 20-22k. Heck, next October they are a non-playoff team do you really think they'll even hit 20k?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Valid points.
The BoD seems to be motivated purely by gate receipts and advertising revenue. That seems to be their measure of how successful the team is doing. The gate receipts representing the reveal fan approval portion.
Gate receipts have not taken a major hit through all of the Maciocia/Reed years.
My hope is that the gate receipts take a major hit this coming season forcing the BoD to acknowledge that there is a problem.

No major hit maybe, but in the early years of this century, 35K was a normal crowd. Upwards of 40K for Calgary and Saskatchewan games. You can now hack a good 10K off those numbers. It's been a slow bleed over the course of 13 years of mostly poor results.

The problem is does the board really know how pissed off fans are?

How many people are actually making their voice heard?

Now if there were to be a rally at the Esks office that makes the news or some sort of petition showing how unhappy people are then maybe a change will happen.

As it stands now the board won't really know how bad things are until the end of next season.

The board is absolutely brainless if they don't have their ears to the ground around town continually to always be aware of where the organization stands with the fans. But I believe you're correct, they probably don't think there's an issue. All you have to do is hear the chatter in the beer lines, listen to local radio, or see what is being said online to realize how absolutely irate the fan base is with the ongoing employment of Maas and Rhodes. The fans shouldn't have to take time out of their lives to actively petition for change or go buy "Fire Maas" billboards. But the lack of ticket renewals will hopefully convey the message, even though it is said it needs to come to that.

Question to the board: Is anyone here actually planning on renewing season tickets or attending a substantive number of games if you aren't a season ticket holder?

 

[guymez]

No major hit maybe, but in the early years of this century, 35K was a normal crowd. Upwards of 40K for Calgary and Saskatchewan games. You can now hack a good 10K off those numbers. It's been a slow bleed over the course of 13 years of mostly poor results.

The thing is from a BoD perspective they could blow that off as a League wide trend...because CFL attendance has been gradually declining overall.
I could be entirely wrong about this but my thinking is that if there is a sudden decline in Eskimo attendance that would be very difficult to rationalize and it might cause them to look internally.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The thing is from a BoD perspective they could blow that off as a League wide trend...because CFL attendance has been gradually declining overall.
I could be entirely wrong about this but my thinking is that if there is a sudden decline in Eskimo attendance that would be very difficult to rationalize and it might cause them to look internally.

That is true, and I've been saying for years that having every home game available on high def TV has been a significant factor in attendance decline. I sure hope you're right that the impending nosedive in season ticket renewals is drastic enough that they are forced to act. If 5,000 people have not renewed by the spring, perhaps we will indeed see Maas and Rhodes shown the door.

 

[joestevens29]

Question to the board: Is anyone here actually planning on renewing season tickets or attending a substantive number of games if you aren't a season ticket holder?

Here's the thing for me. I don't plan on attending any amount. It's more now if it happens it happens.

I usually go to a couple just through work that we know about a month before, but other games are so random. If someone calls me the day before and I have nothing going on the next day I'll go.

 

[Gord]

Question to the board: Is anyone here actually planning on renewing season tickets or attending a substantive number of games if you aren't a season ticket holder?

already cancelled mine as I've said, and probably won't attend more than one, maybe two as a casual attendee.
depending on the weather. even dressed for it, I get sick of sitting in rain and cold.

part of it is transit, too. If I have a couple (or more) beer, I don't drive. the train is fine, but the bus schedules suck and looking at the upcoming transit change plan, my part of town is going to get worse.
frustrating to take an hour to get home on transit, especially if you have to go to the bathroom.

 

[Drivesaitl]

already cancelled mine as I've said, and probably won't attend more than one, maybe two as a casual attendee.
depending on the weather. even dressed for it, I get sick of sitting in rain and cold.

part of it is transit, too. If I have a couple (or more) beer, I don't drive. the train is fine, but the bus schedules suck and looking at the upcoming transit change plan, my part of town is going to get worse.
frustrating to take an hour to get home on transit, especially if you have to go to the bathroom.

Are the park n ride locations not feasible for you? I'm in Millwoods and it takes maybe 30mins by park n ride. Would take similar to drive and look for parking. Its easier taking the park n ride, free, and obviously cheaper and no wear and tear on vehicle.

Just as an aside comment I can never understand people driving to the game, exactly same route, and refusing to take transit to a game. That's either plain obstinate, or antisocial.

Really about the only thing I miss going to games is hitting up MWTC food court, seeing some familiar faces there and chatting, then all heading out to the game. So convenient, easy.
Well, I miss commonwealth Stadium as well. I don't miss the Eskimos. That's the saddest thing. They usually aggravate me.

 

[trick91]

me and my dad have season tickets. We wont be renewing. Might go to a game here and there.

 

[Paralyzer]

Pulling this beauty out from the closet:

 

[Gord]

Are the park n ride locations not feasible for you? I'm in Millwoods and it takes maybe 30mins by park n ride. Would take similar to drive and look for parking. Its easier taking the park n ride, free, and obviously cheaper and no wear and tear on vehicle.

I could, but I do enjoy having at least a couple of beers at the game.
Even with just 2 beer in 3 hours, I'd still rather not take any chances and just get home without being behind the wheel.

 

[Valhallis]

In the past couple of years we've discovered the fan buses. Pick the closest bar and usually you don't need to buy a ticket if there's room on the bus. $12 gets you a beer and a hotdog at the bar and a ride to the game. Pretty good deal and the ride is usually pretty fun though there are some obnoxious fans on the buses though too.

We are NOT going to any games this upcoming season unless wholesale changes are made. That will be the first time since the early nineties that I haven't been to at least one game in the season. That makes me incredibly sad actually. I'll still watch the games on TV, as I won't be able to help myself, but I'm not going to keep throwing money their way for a substandard return.

 

[joestevens29]

In the past couple of years we've discovered the fan buses. Pick the closest bar and usually you don't need to buy a ticket if there's room on the bus. $12 gets you a beer and a hotdog at the bar and a ride to the game. Pretty good deal and the ride is usually pretty fun though there are some obnoxious fans on the buses though too.

We are NOT going to any games this upcoming season unless wholesale changes are made. That will be the first time since the early nineties that I haven't been to at least one game in the season. That makes me incredibly sad actually. I'll still watch the games on TV, as I won't be able to help myself, but I'm not going to keep throwing money their way for a substandard return.

Some Boston Pizza had a real good deal. Think it was 500 for season seats(including grey cup), ride, 2 beer and something with food.

What are Save on Food tickets now? A touch under 40? For an extra 140 get rides to every game and a couple of beer at BP's seems to be a good deal.

 

[Gord]

Some Boston Pizza had a real good deal. Think it was 500 for season seats(including grey cup), ride, 2 beer and something with food.

What are Save on Food tickets now? A touch under 40? For an extra 140 get rides to every game and a couple of beer at BP's seems to be a good deal.

think they were $26.95 this past season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I could, but I do enjoy having at least a couple of beers at the game.
Even with just 2 beer in 3 hours, I'd still rather not take any chances and just get home without being behind the wheel.

I didn't think it through or state clearly. We have option of driving car to MWTC, parking there, or just take a feeder bus if I feel like drinking more. Normally I just have a couple drinks and I'm a big guy, it metabolizes by the time I get back to the car after the park n ride and game. I usually half last drink around halftime. I Just get drinks before game or halftime. I don't like making people get up for me getting anything during the game.

Save on Foods was more like 28 this season. I never bought any last two seasons, just enquired.