Speculation: Duchene trade looking back

[topshelf15]

It needs massive work to challenge the top4 in the Atlantic, massive work.
You have Duchene+Stone and then mjehh. Even that duo doesn't compete well against the other teams top duos.

Meh you assume much but say little,I said its far too early to judge any team including Ottawa....There is some good talent on the team and in the pipe...There are no absolutes in a physical game such as hockey

 

[topshelf15]

I can't believe some Ottawa fans think their team actually has a chance to make the playoffs next year, especially after Karlsson gets traded.

When it happens and we get crap then maybe you would be right...Until then you arent doing anything more than most on here which would be just guessing

 

[SpezDispenser]

I really wish it didn't take trading a player out of Colorado for fan bases to appreciate our players.

Duchy has one crippling flaw, he goes ice cold for periods of time. But otherwise I agree, at the time it was a fair price. Not so much now.

Even now it is, unless it's a top 5 pick. I must say, no one really prepared me personally for how good he was. I always liked him, but it takes seeing him night in and night out to really get how awesome he is.

 

[BB88]

Meh you assume much but say little,I said its far too early to judge any team including Ottawa....There is some good talent on the team and in the pipe...There are no absolutes in a physical game such as hockey

Let's let the dust settle. Florida is not a slam dunk to be better at all, HOWEVER, Ottawa has major work/damage control to do before we start assigning ranks in the East.

Florida isn't quaranteed but they have one of the best top5's in the league with a ppg 2way C.

Ottawa has issues all over the lineup and the management hasn't been exactly lights out either.

 

[topshelf15]

Florida isn't quaranteed but they have one of the best top5's in the league with a ppg 2way C.

Ottawa has issues all over the lineup and the management hasn't been exactly lights out either.

Yep and most teams that didnt make the playoffs can say the exact same thing,like I said Ottawa hasnt finalised their roster and a million things can happen before we drop the puck next year,the optics have looked bad but there is still some hope we can use our pretty deep prospect pool ,our small but highly skilled top end core...To help remedy some of what trashed our season last year

 

[BB88]

Yep and most teams that didnt make the playoffs can say the exact same thing,like I said Ottawa hasnt finalised their roster and a million things can happen before we drop the puck next year,the optics have looked bad but there is still some hope we can use our pretty deep prospect pool ,our small but highly skilled top end core...To help remedy some of what trashed our season last year

Few of the teams, that you find from the bottom

Lack of superstars at F, lack of quality depth at F, question on defense/net, issues with the managent.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Florida isn't quaranteed but they have one of the best top5's in the league with a ppg 2way C.

Ottawa has issues all over the lineup and the management hasn't been exactly lights out either.

It's very, very early in the off-season, let's see what they can do before we declare them dead and buried.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Even now it is, unless it's a top 5 pick. I must say, no one really prepared me personally for how good he was. I always liked him, but it takes seeing him night in and night out to really get how awesome he is.

Perspective plays a part here. I imagine you're evaluating it from a 'we would have lost Turris anyways' and not accounting for Girard in this scenario.

In the grand scheme, the sum total assets for Duchene and what appears like a lock for a top 10 pick. Seems lopsided. Duchy has the talent to be a P/G #1 center, I question he has the support in Ottawa though.

 

[topshelf15]

Few of the teams, that you find from the bottom

Lack of superstars at F, lack of quality depth at F, question on defense/net, issues with the managent.

Again,we are doing what most team that didnt win are doing....Using what we have ,and what we have is depth at the prospect level along with some good pieces in a small but decently skilled core....EK,Stone,Duchene and Chabot is what we are going to try and surround with decent vets like Bodker,JGP,ZSmith etc...And hope what was a decent goaltending tandem in Andy and Condon a year ago can rebound..Who knows maybe even Ryan can stay healthy for more than a handful of games in a row and play the hockey we all know he can ......

 

[Beezeral]

It's very, very early in the off-season, let's see what they can do before we declare them dead and buried.

I think this is fair. It's also fair to say that barring an unforeseen acquisition, the Sens are quite a long shot to make the playoffs next season.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I think this is fair. It's also fair to say that barring an unforeseen acquisition, the Sens are quite a long shot to make the playoffs next season.

Sens fans hear that all the time though. We always are a long shot, the season shows there are 1000 story lines that can alter a team's plight for the positive or negative. However, yes, if we trade Karlsson, I'd say we're a long shot.

 

[topshelf15]

Perspective plays a part here. I imagine you're evaluating it from a 'we would have lost Turris anyways' and not accounting for Girard in this scenario.

In the grand scheme, the sum total assets for Duchene and what appears like a lock for a top 10 pick. Seems lopsided. Duchy has the talent to be a P/G #1 center, I question he has the support in Ottawa though.

The exact same could be said of us keeping a stud like Chabot out of the deal,we gave up more picks to make sure this didnt happen ...Again part of the excess is also the fact we had to trade and replace Turris at the same time...So other than the potential top 5 .What did we really lose??

 

[SpezDispenser]

Perspective plays a part here. I imagine you're evaluating it from a 'we would have lost Turris anyways' and not accounting for Girard in this scenario.

In the grand scheme, the sum total assets for Duchene and what appears like a lock for a top 10 pick. Seems lopsided. Duchy has the talent to be a P/G #1 center, I question he has the support in Ottawa though.

For sure, the price was high. Turris was gonna go no matter what - why, I'm not sure. I assume Ottawa had a crush on Duchene that wouldn't go away and wouldn't pay Chabot to acquire him.

With that in mind, I think the price on elite level players is rightfully through the roof these days. They don't come along often and they're relatively few and far between. I think Colorado did REALLY well in all this, Nashville did okay and Ottawa has the potential to do very well as well, as long as they sign Duchene.

It's a rare trade where everyone did really well - especially the team trading the elite level player, which in my mind is pretty fair.

 

[topshelf15]

For sure, the price was high. Turris was gonna go no matter what - why, I'm not sure. I assume Ottawa had a crush on Duchene that wouldn't go away and wouldn't pay Chabot to acquire him.

With that in mind, I think the price on elite level players is rightfully through the roof these days. They don't come along often and they're relatively few and far between. I think Colorado did REALLY well in all this, Nashville did okay and Ottawa has the potential to do very well as well, as long as they sign Duchene.

It's a rare trade where everyone did really well - especially the team trading the elite level player, which in my mind is pretty fair.

Agree,if Col get Hughes ,then all the Col fans can rip even more into us .....Until then we still got the best player in the trade

 

[SpezDispenser]

Agree,if Col get Hughes ,then all the Col fans can rip even more into us .....Until then we still got the best player in the trade

Totally. Even then, I doubt Colorado fans would rip into us, it was a risk worth taking. It'd be the Toronto fans etc that would be dancing in the streets.

As of now, I'm comfortable with the price if:

a) we re-sign Duchene

b) it's not a top 3 pick (or even top 5).

 

[BB88]

Again,we are doing what most team that didnt win are doing....Using what we have ,and what we have is depth at the prospect level along with some good pieces in a small but decently skilled core....EK,Stone,Duchene and Chabot is what we are going to try and surround with decent vets like Bodker,JGP,ZSmith etc...And hope what was a decent goaltending tandem in Andy and Condon a year ago can rebound..Who knows maybe even Ryan can stay healthy for more than a handful of games in a row and play the hockey we all know he can ......

That's a whole lot of wishing.

 

[topshelf15]

Totally. Even then, I doubt Colorado fans would rip into us, it was a risk worth taking. It'd be the Toronto fans etc that would be dancing in the streets.

As of now, I'm comfortable with the price if:

a) we re-sign Duchene

b) it's not a top 3 pick (or even top 5).

Most of our talking heads seem to think him reupping this is a forgone conclusion....I certainly hope so

 

[topshelf15]

That's a whole lot of wishing.

Yep ,and every team in the league that made the playoffs last season will for sure make it .........

 

[SpezDispenser]

Most of our talking heads seem to think him reupping this is a forgone conclusion....I certainly hope so

I trust them - not at all. Not even Bobby Mac seems to have his finger on the pulse these days.

 

[SpezDispenser]

That's a whole lot of wishing.

There's another factor to this. We might not trade Karlsson before next deadline. If we don't we'll be just fine. Last year's drama is quite behind us, thanks.

 

[Eltuna]

We usually move the budget up as the cap goes up...This way EM doesnt go into the assistance plan and has to open his books to the nhl...And he can continue to cry poor to us fans ...Lol sounds like a joke,but sadly its the truth

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Karlsson goes personally, not because of a feeling but because the dollars just don’t add up and I’ve yet to see an Ottawa fan actually propose a situation where the dollars do add up. It’s easy to crucify Dorion but he’s in such a difficult position working with a 68 million dollar cap in an 80 million dollar cap world. Mistakes like the Ryan/Gaborik/Anderson/Condon/Burrows contracts hit Ottawa so much harder than they do other teams. Other trades could be made to make the cap work, but I don’t think losing players like Pageau/Smith/Ceci/Hoffman all in one offseason is the way to go. One thing I actually think could work is losing Ryan by packaging him with a Brown for example, but I don’t think that’s the way a rebuilding team should go. I think one of the trio is gone, and Karlsson makes the most sense since he might not want to sign anyways.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Karlsson goes personally, not because of a feeling but because the dollars just don’t add up and I’ve yet to see an Ottawa fan actually propose a situation where the dollars do add up. It’s easy to crucify Dorion but he’s in such a difficult position working with a 68 million dollar cap in an 80 million dollar cap world. Mistakes like the Ryan/Gaborik/Anderson/Condon/Burrows contracts hit Ottawa so much harder than they do other teams. Other trades could be made to make the cap work, but I don’t think losing players like Pageau/Smith/Ceci/Hoffman all in one offseason is the way to go. One thing I actually think could work is losing Ryan by packaging him with a Brown for example, but I don’t think that’s the way a rebuilding team should go. I think one of the trio is gone, and Karlsson makes the most sense since he might not want to sign anyways.

Meh, if I was Ottawa, I'd look to trade Ceci and Smith for no money coming back, apply that to Karlsson's already 6.5 million contract and call it a day. We have SO many young players coming up, if ever there was a time to use youth, it's not.

PS: I don't disagree with your post for the record, it's fairly accurate.

 

[Eltuna]

Meh, if I was Ottawa, I'd look to trade Ceci and Smith for no money coming back, apply that to Karlsson's already 6.5 million contract and call it a day. We have SO many young players coming up, if ever there was a time to use youth, it's not.

PS: I don't disagree with your post for the record, it's fairly accurate.

I still don’t think Ceci + Smith would be enough, for next year it probably would be but then Duchene/Karlsson extensions kick in and Stones extension would have already started. Stone is set to increase his salary by about 4.5-5 million, Duchene by about 2 million, and Karlsson by about 4-5 million. Losing all three of Pageau/Ceci/Smith for nothing but futures would work I think, but at that point you’re losing those three plus Hoffman from the second worst team in the league and replacing them with Boedker + unproven kids.

To me, the moment I thought Karlsson was most likely traded was the moment Dorion targeted Boedker instead of just draft picks in the Hoffman return. I think losing Hoffman’s salary and not getting any back was crucial. I think to keep all three, Dorion would need to be extremely wise with the limited funds he has, paying Boedker 6 million dollars over the next two years when money is going to be at the very tightest, paints a picture for me of a Karlsson-less Ottawa. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise from an accounting perspective.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I still don’t think Ceci + Smith would be enough, for next year it probably would be but then Duchene/Karlsson extensions kick in and Stones extension would have already started. Stone is set to increase his salary by about 4.5-5 million, Duchene by about 2 million, and Karlsson by about 4-5 million. Losing all three of Pageau/Ceci/Smith for nothing but futures would work I think, but at that point you’re losing those three plus Hoffman from the second worst team in the league and replacing them with Boedker + unproven kids.

To me, the moment I thought Karlsson was most likely traded was the moment Dorion targeted Boedker instead of just draft picks in the Hoffman return. I think losing Hoffman’s salary and not getting any back was crucial. I think to keep all three, Dorion would need to be extremely wise with the limited funds he has, paying Boedker 6 million dollars over the next two years when money is going to be at the very tightest, paints a picture for me of a Karlsson-less Ottawa. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise from an accounting perspective.

Really hard to equate one with the other. Yes, I think Karlsson will be dealt, but I don't think it had anything to do with Boedker. Ottawa didn't want to be in a position where they had to scramble in free agency, use a rookie or make a trade for a top 9 forward, they wanted one back in the Hoffman deal. Boedker, for all the flack he takes about cap dump and negative value, is worth having on a hockey team. Always working hard, good 2-way player, penalty killer, can provide some offence. I thought it was Smith that was done when we acquired Boedker, that was my immediate take.

However, I'm fairly resigned to thinking Karlsson is gone, so I don't really correlate moves with him right now. That's the real shame IMO. We have such strong young players coming, Karlsson could spearhead a near-immediate re-tool with Duchene and Stone and the kids Brown, White, Chabot, Tkachuk, Formenton etc. Boo...

 

[Eltuna]

Really hard to equate one with the other. Yes, I think Karlsson will be dealt, but I don't think it had anything to do with Boedker. Ottawa didn't want to be in a position where they had to scramble in free agency, use a rookie or make a trade for a top 9 forward, they wanted one back in the Hoffman deal. Boedker, for all the flack he takes about cap dump and negative value, is worth having on a hockey team. Always working hard, good 2-way player, penalty killer, can provide some offence. I thought it was Smith that was done when we acquired Boedker, that was my immediate take.

However, I'm fairly resigned to thinking Karlsson is gone, so I don't really correlate moves with him right now. That's the real shame IMO. We have such strong young players coming, Karlsson could spearhead a near-immediate re-tool with Duchene and Stone and the kids Brown, White, Chabot, Tkachuk, Formenton etc. Boo...

I’m not saying that now that Boedker has been traded for that Dorion will now trade Karlsson. I’m saying that Boedker never would have been targeted if Dorion didn’t already know that he was going to deal Karlsson. To me it only makes sense from Dorions perspective if the team has already made up their minds on EK. With the amount of financial ambiguity that has plagued the Sens recently, allocating 6 million dollars to a player when you don’t have to just doesn’t make sense. If they want to sign the trio, that 6 million would be better spent on their extensions rather than a tweener like Boedker. If I’m Dorion, and I wanted the trio signed, Vanek on a very cheap one year deal makes way more sense than Boedker for example.